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Taking a look at a token project's voting pattern by acidyo

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bleh · @acidyo ·
$44.69
Taking a look at a token project's voting pattern
So after postponing this for quite a while now I decided to take a look at the @eds-vote project's voting pattern. Disappointedly it seems to be quite automated based on certain delegation tiers and token holdings and the project only voting for accounts that hold its token/miners or delegate to it. 

Either way, I think you guys probably know my stance about this by now and I don't really have much time or willpower to deal with these things currently but figured I'd make a post shining some light on it and let you share your thoughts about it. 

I think it's important that we all vote on an even playing field and not based mainly on self-interest as getting upvotes because you delegate to a project or because you buy their token should be quite obvious that it seems to ignore all the other things we think are important to take into account in terms of curation. 

I don't really have more info on how the voting is decided, who gets placed on an autovoter or how often and if there's cases where they're removed from autovotes due to abuse/other, but either way this activity is not something I'd encourage and feel it takes value away from projects doing similar things but not focusing their votes on those who delegate to them. 

https://youtu.be/vbmaCug3Wb8
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vote details (815)
@adamada · 
> I don't really have more info on how the voting is decided

[Here](https://peakd.com/leofinance/@eddie-earner/edsvote-update-5-or-you-want-eds-we-want-hp-delegations-lets-make-a-deal)
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vote details (1)
@acidyo · 
> The delegated HP will be used to curate content on HIVE and provide small upvotes for those that hold over 100 EDS tokens.

I failed to see any of the first mentioned part, do you have any examples on posts voted that don't hold tokens or delegate to the project? Other than the owner's posts.
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@adamada ·
$0.07
Would @brofund account qualify for:

> examples on posts voted that don't hold tokens or delegate to the project?

if not, then there's my own account which doesn't hold EDSI or delegating to it currently, I say currently because it's been like almost or more than a month since I pulled out delegations and they still haven't removed me from their voting list (it's listed manually afaik).
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vote details (1)
@alonicus · 
My understanding of @eds-vote is that the curation is automated or semi-automated (it probably still takes a human to edit the list).

But it's part of the overall EDS ecosystem, providing a small reward to those who support it and invest in it. Yes, it can be seen in one respect as "buying upvotes", but it's clear in the documentation how the votes are assigned. I think the main point is that the delegations to @eds-vote enable EDS to get earnings from curation which are then cycled back into the system to generate further rewards for the users.

My view is that there is room in Hive for multiple different forms of curation; automated as a return for investment, automated with curation trails, fully manual, and manual curation through communities. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, whether its seen as buying votes, voting for your friends, getting votes by only posting in the most popular communities, or being a favourite of a particular manual curator. I'll hold my hand up and say I've benefitted from all of those at one point or another ! But by welcoming all of the different types of curation it helps mitigate the impact of the downsides of all of them.
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@acidyo · 
Don't really know what to say to this defending of people getting guaranteed votes mostly based on their own delegations.
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vote details (13)
@aqsagu · 
"Interesting observation! Do you think automating voting based on token holdings is fair to smaller participants?"
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vote details (2)
@arveno · 
I think EDS community is alive and having good ecosystem there sir. 
I also delegate to EDS and yeah i get the EDS token as well. The vote are bonus tho.
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@acidyo · 
If you can't see what's wrong with this after the post and the discussions in the comment section, I don't really know what more I can say.
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vote details (13)
@bozz ·
$0.08
EDS is another tricky one because you run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bath water.  They have a good token system with a solid investment potential aside from the voting aspect.  I think it's important to recognize that.
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vote details (1)
@acidyo ·
$0.03
Yeah not really trying to put the project and underlying idea in a bad light, I mentioned many times I don't really know what they do but puffing up APR numbers through the addition of guaranteed votes as long as you delegate or hold tokens should not be part of the equation. 

Why delegate to other projects that may be doing something unique and have potential if I can delegate to this that'll guarantee me a higher APR because it'll give me a vote back while the other project won't because it's using their votes for their own community or on new users, etc.
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vote details (14)
@bozz · 
> it'll give me a vote back while the other project won't because it's using their votes for their own community or on new users, etc.

The way I understand it, EDS is their own community that is focused on helping people build wealth.  They have the Saturday Savers piece and all of that. Shouldn't that community be allowed to support their own members?  If I see someone buy stock in a company, I don't get mad because they get paid dividends for holding that stock.  I'm not trying to argue, just understand.  Is the key issue the fact that they are getting paid in HIVE?  If they were just awarded EDS tokens would it then be okay?  

I think the idea of communities in general is that they support each other. If they pool their resources to do it, then that's pretty clever on their part.  I don't really care.  I mean I hold some EDS tokens and I think I delegate a bit, but it's pretty small comparatively, my KE shows that.  I just know people are taking these observations by you pretty personally, and I'm curious where the lines are about what is and isn't subjectively allowed and not.
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@cositav ·
$0.64
>"What would happen if everyone did this?"
#
Wow, from a global perspective, I think this would be very, very bad. Hive's vision would be lost. It would no longer make sense to create quality posts, it would no longer make sense to build a community or strive to improve every day and achieve goals, and if it affects the Hive ecosystem, it would be even worse. I agree with you on many points. I also understand the point of getting noticed because it's very difficult at first. I'm in that process. Others obviously have more advantages and more opportunities thanks to this system that you don't agree with. And from the bottom of my heart, I thank you for thinking of those in Hive creating content and trying to grow on their own. As you say, the rewards aren't guaranteed, but that from time to time it's good to have their effort appreciated.
#
I think a balance should be found, and I advocate for not running out of ideas and being able to raise awareness with your power and your voice. In my country, they say *"he who tires loses."* There are many people at Hive who appreciate your efforts to encourage the proper use of our platform. Don't lose heart. Because "What if everyone did this?"
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vote details (5)
@topcomment · 
<center>
**Your reply is upvoted by [@topcomment](https://peakd.com/@topcomment); a manual curation service that rewards meaningful and engaging comments.**
<center>
**[More Info](https://peakd.com/hive-148441/@topcomment/rewarding-meaningful-comments-with-topcomment) - [Support us!](https://peakd.com/hive/@topcomment/support-topcomment-a-delegation-and-earn-80percent-curation-rewards) - [Reports](https://peakd.com/created/topcommentreport) - [Discord Channel](https://discord.gg/u7ebA2QKCd)**
</center>
[![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/topcomment/EpGRgMJ92JzvktbWphJhBiKrsNYoqLrXvTGH5yP9offkMeLLFZ7PrCbT1T4SfMDC5NS.png)](https://peakd.com/@topcomment)<hr><center><b>Curated by <a href="/@friendlymoose">friendlymoose</a></b></center>
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@dangab · 
I don't know exactly how long I've been in the ecosystem, but I think I've been around long enough to realize many things that I personally find discouraging.

I have learned that as a user it is my responsibility to give value to the work that I do and that deserves to have an optimal activity with foundation and respect. It is from here that the good reader and the good author start, but unfortunately (I return and emphasize this personally), I feel that somehow there are limitations when you want to vary the content and despite making the effort to maintain an activity in a certain constant way this is very difficult to be valued if there is not something in between and I think it is too much to say it.

How different it would be if everything was rewarded by giving real value to the constancy of making community in an optimal and natural way without depending on a delegation.
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@acidyo · 
Not really sure what you're asking there in the end, kind of confusing grammar/translation possibly.
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@dangab ·
$0.17
I mean that it is somewhat tedious to vary the content in different communities, that despite implementing a constant activity in terms of making community, i.e., visiting content, reading it and leaving a good comment. If there is no delegation in between, it is very difficult for them to value your own content that you share there.

It would be really good that the value that is given to our content is also reflected in the constant activity that I mentioned before about reading and leaving a good comment. That not everything should depend on making a delegation to be able to give value to our content.

Hopefully now if you understand or at least understand my point of view.
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vote details (1)
@davideownzall ·
$0.17
Pretty much obvious vote buy with delegation and second layer tokens, i think there's not much to say, the % of the vote depends on stake or token holdings... it's also in some relation with free compliments, that's a guarantee of success 🀣

as you say dividends to holders are ok, but vote buy not really

explains also why the token doesn't dump in value, hold it and you get upvotes
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vote details (1)
@emiliorios · 
I definitely still have a lot to learn about the platform...
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@fredaig ·
$0.07
So autovote is like a bot created by an account right?  i was thinking its similar with curation trail, There is way more to hive than  seeing it from a personal interest  kinda view, I think more bots like this account  are already created and it seems to be out of hive control to stop this.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@acidyo · 
trails are basically just following a certain account's votes and copying them with a certain percentage, you can follow many users as long as you keep track of your voting power, etc. 

Autovotes through bots or hive.vote fanbase means you will automatically vote on certain users you've selected whenever they post for a set amount of voting strength.
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vote details (13)
@fredaig · 
ohhhh i see first time learning this thanks for the clarification
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@itsmemic ·
$0.08
Honestly, I’ve always looked up to projects that support content based on quality and not just affiliation. It’s a bit sad to hear this, but I’m glad someone like you is putting it out there.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@shmoogleosukami ·
$0.36
IIRC one of the requirements to get on the eds-vote list is to have at least 100EDSI and technically also notify them as the list in not automated as far as I know (I don't think I'm on it even though I own enough tokens cause I've never mentioned it)

Personally projects really should move away from this kickback for owning, delegating etc in the forms of upvotes. Hive will be better off without that sort of thing, at least on a automated scale.

It's a little different if they are actually considering content quality and manually curating. For instance a project like this could make it so owning/delegating etc gets to put on a priority curation list, where your posts get looked over first but still actually have to be good. 
That in my opinion is a more sensible and less shady looking way of running things. Naturally it is also more work because people are needed to put in the hours curating.

I think bring this into light is a good thing and it's not to say we're out to name and shame but really highlight that there are alternative ways to run things that look and feel better in the public view. So I'm all for it.

---

<sup> <a href="https://vote.hive.uno/?witness=shmoogleosukami">I'm a hive witness supporting the blockchain please consider voting for me!</a> -  <a href="https://peakd.com/hive-111111/@shmoogleosukami/shmoogle-osukamis-witness-info-for-prospective-voters"> Find out more here!</a> </sup>
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vote details (5)
@acidyo · 
Thanks, very well put and completely agree.
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vote details (8)
@suisver ·
$0.12
Hi friends.

If there are people who harm the platform with strange mechanisms, it's because they don't understand how valuable Hive is. I want us all to be able to grow and be rewarded equally without favoritism, and to be able to create content and be valued regardless of whether we support this project or that. And, of course, that doesn't prevent us from making a profit in other ways here at Hive, but we must differentiate between the two. Without damaging our home (Hive).
Supporting content creation, effort, and originality should be a priority when curating content.
That's my opinion. I haven't been at Hive long, but I'm learning.
I like what you're suggesting, it's all for the sake of well-being.
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vote details (1)
@unschool ·
$0.09
Isn't there a way to stop this on the blockchain level instead? I feel that this kind of post is recurrent for that past years and yet I wonder why it's not blocked at a lower level.
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vote details (1)
@acidyo · 
Don't think it can be stopped at that level, the blockchain wouldn't know which account belongs to who and self-votes or voting people who delegate to an account with said account isn't always bad, it's only bad if that's all they do.
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vote details (4)
@unschool ·
$0.09
Can't we have a maximum voting ratio for a particular account? Like, if my account only vote for you, after a certain time it would block me from voting?
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vote details (1)
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