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Steem Town Hall - Today in 1 hour by aggroed

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· @aggroed ·
$49.13
Steem Town Hall - Today in 1 hour
![image.png](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmWxDWt5WuPjBgmPhk5z9ykTJDm6eSgLDoC7vX4tgUHx8D/image.png)

Mspwaves will be hosting another steem town hall today at noon.  We're looking for help today though.  We're asking everyone to help find every reference possible to the steemit stake being 
1. non-voting
2. used to develop the chain
3. used for onboarding
4. any other mention

github, twitter, bitcointalk, youtube, official publications are all fair game.  Please help by putting links you find as comments in this post.
๐Ÿ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 677 others
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vote details (743)
@abitcoinskeptic ·
Thank you for this list and town hall.

We need to help justin explore the idea that steemit stake is not his private property.

Coolheads must prevail in the meantime. He can sell 1/13 a week if we cannot stop him or convince him to wait a little while.
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@apshamilton ·
$0.14
Best to use eSteem search function to search on key terms. I have used it to great effect to collect evidence for the Crypto Class Action.
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vote details (4)
@apshamilton ·
$0.27
https://github.com/steemit/steem/issues/324 
August 2016

"This feature could be used by @steemit to create a binding contract with the community that the account could not be used to:

take control of witness queue
take control of all content rewards"

Clearly an expectation of community which Steemit Inc employees did not dispute and indeed accepted the blockchain code change that went into a later hard fork.
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vote details (6)
@dhimmel · (edited)
$0.09
nice find. merged into master in commit [`408d667`](https://github.com/steemit/steem/commit/408d667c9ab40eeee442e9240b6203eaf88da3e2) and has been part of all of the following releases:

> v0.22.1  v0.22.1-no-mira v0.22.0 v0.22.0-no-mira v0.21.1 v0.21.1-no-mira v0.21.0 v0.21.0rc2 v0.21.0rc1 v0.21.0-no-mira v0.20.12 v0.20.12-no-mira v0.20.11 v0.20.10 v0.20.9 v0.20.8 v0.20.7 v0.20.6 v0.20.6rc1 v0.20.5 v0.20.4 v0.20.2 v0.20.1 v0.20.0 v0.20.0rc1 v0.19.12 v0.19.11 v0.19.10 v0.19.6 v0.19.5 v0.19.4rc1 v0.19.3 v0.19.2 v0.19.1 v0.19.1rc1 v0.19.0 v0.19.0rc3 v0.19.0rc2 v0.19.0rc1 v0.18.5 v0.18.4 v0.18.3 v0.18.3rc1 v0.18.2 v0.18.1 v0.18.0 v0.17.1 v0.17.0 v0.17.0rc3 v0.17.0rc2 v0.17.0rc1 v0.16.4 v0.16.3 v0.16.2 v0.16.1 v0.16.1rc1 v0.16.0 v0.16.0rc3 v0.16.0rc2 v0.16.0rc1 v0.15.0 v0.14.3rc1 v0.14.2 v0.14.1 v0.14.0 v0.14.0rc1 dump-api-call-request-response-first 0.14.0-shared-db

Unfortunately, I don't see any statements by Larimer or other STINC employees that commit to applying this operation to STINC stake. Still a useful reference for this research project.
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vote details (2)
@apshamilton ·
$0.08
Credit goes to @brianoflondon. He found it.
๐Ÿ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@apshamilton ·
$0.23
A summary of the good evidence we've found in the last 4 hours.
https://steempeak.com/ninjamine/@apshamilton/evidence-of-steemit-inc-making-representations-about-use-of-ninja-mined-stake

Its enough to present to Justin as *Hors d'oeuvre*.
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vote details (4)
@arcange ·
Congratulations @aggroed!
Your post was mentioned in the [Steem Hit Parade](/hit-parade/@arcange/daily-hit-parade-20200304) in the following categories:

* Comments - Ranked 6 with 78 comments
* Pending payout - Ranked 5 with $ 49,23
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@brianoflondon ·
$0.02
You've got just enough time to watch this while waiting...

https://3speak.online/watch?v=brianoflondon/etrttdqe&utm_source=studio
๐Ÿ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@californiacrypto ·
I listened to the meeting with Justin and some of our witnesses and that was a shit show. We need to find a couple people that we want to represent us as a community.
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vote details (1)
@californiacrypto ·
Also is there a link to the Town Hall recording. I missed it and would like to listen to what you guys were discussing.
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@kus-knee ·
Some were reasonable and others not. Threatening, ranting, exiting early and refusing to return until certain demands were met were not helpful.
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@clockwork ·
There's two different things to note here.

The legal aspect and the moral aspect.

Legally, the community is completely in the clear since the terms of service for steemit are clear as day: https://steemit.com/tos.html

>All proposed Steem blockchain transactions must be confirmed and recorded in the Steem blockchain via the Steem distributed consensus network (a peer-to-peer network), **which is not owned, controlled, or operated by us**. The Steem blockchain is operated by a decentralized network of independent third parties. **We have no control over the Steem blockchain and therefore cannot and will not ensure that any transaction details you submit via the Services will be confirmed on the Steem blockchain**. You acknowledge and agree that the transaction details you submit via the Services may not be completed, or may be substantially delayed, by the Steem blockchain. You may use the Services to submit these details to the Steem blockchain.

If Ned misrepresented Steemit to Tron or provided any guarantees to the contrary, that is between them.

The moral aspect should be covered by the material gathered already  and various statements of Ned made over the years. It does not have to be "legally-binding" as there is no legal issue here. It just has to show that the witnesses did not behave immorally.

That being said, I think the soft fork was a rash/rushed decision that should not have occured.
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@skepticology ·
Ignoring any legal or moral arguments for now, the actual execution of the soft fork was a failure for several reasons. The witnesses had no stated plans or goals beyond the initial act of taking the funds hostage. This is like entering a war without an exit strategy. The preemptive strike prevented Steemit Inc. from fulfulling any of its obligations, including the witnesses' demands. Additionally, they left a backdoor open that has been a known security vulnerability since the existence of the chain. This highlights a more fundamental failure in their duties as witnesses to secure the chain.
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vote details (2)
@dhimmel ·
> github, twitter, bitcointalk, youtube, official publications are all fair game. Please help by putting links you find as comments in this post.

Indeed. Let's get the evidence written to the blockchain all in one place! I'll make sure to upvote any original references and others should do the same!
๐Ÿ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@donald.porter · (edited)
And so the Legal battle begins... hopefully we find something binding ๐Ÿ™๐Ÿฝ... then he/we can go after Ned ๐Ÿ˜’
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@freedompoint · (edited)
$0.02
This sounds like a great idea. The truth is still the same. Blockchain technology is like the Wild West. If there is no sign legal document, there is nothing. I don't know a judge anywhere that would try to uphold a handshake agreement (or a post or promise) between two parties, when a third party bought it and has the legal documents to prove he owns his stake. I love to watch all of the passion that is happening, but I think that the Steem Witnesses may be getting alittle out of their wheelhouse when they are trying to argue the definition of a legal contract, and no one sounded willing to create a legal document with Justin. You just seem to be gathering more documents that show exactly what everyone already knows. Ned made the "deal"...and no one denies that. What do you honestly think that this will achieve, even when they have no plan to uphold Ned's handshake? Seems like saber rattling.  Cheers.
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vote details (3)
@hans001 ·
Well I won a lawsuit on that principle if a handshake.. But if It's somewhere on the blockchain it's the same as a contract. If you go 1 year back you can also find something because they wanted to freeze ned wallet of the ninja mined tokens I also recall that he said that it would be used for development etc. 
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@freedompoint ·
Sweet. Was the handshake between you and someone else. Or was the handshake between two other people and you were the third party?
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@skepticology ·
> Steem Witnesses may be getting alittle out of their wheelhouse when they are trying to argue the definition of a legal contract

If we interpret their argument at face value, that Steemit Inc. inherited a contractual obligation, then they are gathering evidence that can be used against themselves, as they are the party attempting to prevent Steemit Inc. from fulfilling this alleged contractual obligation.
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@valued-customer ·
$0.09
>"If there is no sign legal document, there is nothing."

[citation needed]

In innumerable examples of prior litigation, representations made in writing are evidentiary.  If you disagree with this, please provide cites that prove your assertion.  My counsel does not agree with your assertion.

Your understanding of what deal @ned and @justinsunsteemit undertook seems to be limited to statements of @justinsunsteemit orally and in writing regarding that deal.  Do you have actual evidence besides that to base your assertions of what @ned did or didn't do?

If you do, please provide that evidence.  I am unsatisfied that your representations here accurately characterize the substance of the transaction in question.
๐Ÿ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@freedompoint · (edited)
I appreciate your feedback, and I respect your view. I am simply using the examples that have been given here on the blockchain. It has been given from members of the Steem blockchain regarding whatever has happened. I'm not claiming to be any sort of attorney, I am just using good sense. If I were a betting man, I would bet that there is no legal leg to stand on. To follow that up...it doesn't matter. Who here would actually represent "the community" in any sort of legal action against Steemit Inc. Who is willing to shed their anonymity and step up and sue?   *looks around* no? no takers? 

I am just saying that it doesn't really matter what comes of this, what is the actual legal follow through that the Steem Witnesses could present? It just seems like a bunch of excitement and energy and passion...but beyond that I think they will find that the only option is to go along or fork. Nothing really changes. Be well
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@informationwar ·
$5.88
## Dan Larimer 

* June 17th 2016 - [#introduceyourself - Daniel Larimer - Co-Founder of BitShares & Steemit](https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@dantheman/daniel-larimer--co-founder-of-bitshares-steemit)
* March 16th 2017 - [Steemit Lead Developer, Dan Larimer, Leaves as Steem Market Cap Declines to $18.8 Million..!!](https://steemit.com/steemit/@stephenkendal/steemit-lead-developer-dan-larimer-leaves-as-steem-market-cap-declines-to-usd18-8-million)
* June 11th 2017 - [DAN LARIMER: Visionary Programmer of BitShares, Steem and EOS](https://hackernoon.com/dan-larimer-visionary-programmer-of-bitshares-steem-and-eos-7e6d94b241d7)
* July 4th 2017 - [The Wizard behind Bitshares, Steem & EOS - How Dan Larimer is shaping our future](https://steemit.com/steemit/@mohit18jan/the-wizard-behind-bitshares-steem-and-eos-how-dan-larimer-is-shaping-our-future)
* https://www.steem.center/index.php?title=Dan_Larimer 
* [Everipedia - Dan Larimer](https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/dan-larimer)
* [Dan Larimer's Blog](http://bytemaster.github.io/)
* April 15th 2018 - [Introduction to Blockchain: Daniel Larimer at Virginia Tech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYAktmG1NuA ) 

## Steem Background &  News 

* March 24th 2016 - [**BITCOINTALK.ORG - Steem - A experimental Proof of Work blockchain**](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1410943.0)
* April 1st 2016 - [Topic: [ANN] [STEEM] Introducing Steem, Looking for Witnesses / Miners](https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=22125.0)
* July 20th 2016 - [**BITCOINTALK.ORG:Steem pyramid scheme revealed**](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1558366.0) 								 
* July 27th 2016 -	[**BITCOINTALK.ORG** Someone please make a steem clone](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1567519.msg15731384#msg15731384) 						
* January 7th 2017 - [FORBES: Fintech Steemit Migrating Servers To Amazon Unveils Ambitious Blockchain Roadmap](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogeraitken/2017/01/17/fintech-steemit-migrating-servers-to-amazon-unveils-blockchain-roadmap/#20f5da1b7dd5) 
* April 28th 2017 - [Fixing a Problem in the Economics of Steemit](https://steemit.com/steemit/@trafalgar/a-problem-in-the-economics-of-steemit)
* January 20th 2018 - [@ilyastarar - Understanding Steemit : Learn About Steem Economy & Currencies Powered By The Steem Blockchain!](https://steemit.com/steemit/@ilyastarar/understanding-the-steemit-economy-and-steemit-currencies-powered-by-steem-blockchain)
* March 2nd 2020 - [FORKLOG: To the Coup and Back: Story Behind Steemit Communityโ€™s Failed Revolt](https://forklog.media/to-the-coup-and-back-story-behind-steemit-communitys-failed-revolt/)
* March 2020 - [pro-blockchain.com: Steem Community Mobilizes Popular Vote in Battle With Justin Sun](https://pro-blockchain.com/en/steem-community-mobilizes-popular-vote-in-battle-with-justin-sun)

## Ninja Mine & Legal

* March 27 2016 - [How to Launch a Crypto Currency Legally while Raising Funds](https://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/03/27/How-to-Launch-a-Crypto-Currency-Legally-while-Raising-Funds/#) (Dan Larimer's Blog)
* January 2017 - [The Steemit, Inc.](https://www.steem.center/index.php?title=Steemit,_Inc) controlled primary account, [@steemit](https://steemit.com/@steemit), had approximately 41% of the platformโ€™s Steem Power in January, 2017,  and would be gradually divested of its holdings in an effort to increase promotion and development of the platform while dispersing voting  power. As a CEO, [Ned Scott] indicated to Forbes magazine that this will be done in a โ€œgradual multi-year divestmentโ€.[[2\]](https://www.steem.center/index.php?title=Steemit,_Inc#cite_note-2)*
* 28th Feb 2017  - Open Source standalone GUI for Steem escrow transactions  https://steemit.com/escrow/@xtar/open-source-standalone-gui-for-steem-escrow-transactions   https://steemprojects.com/projects/p/escrow-gui/
* March 16th 2017 - [@dantheman - Making Steem Really Open Source](https://steemit.com/steem/@dantheman/making-steem-really-open-source)
* February 9th 2018 - [@aggroed - A brief history of the "ninja mine"](https://steemit.com/steemit/@aggroed/a-brief-history-of-the-ninja-mine)
* February 26th 2020 - [Order on Motion to Dismiss - Document #854:18-cv-06753-PJH](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/8150354/zakinov-v-ripple-labs-inc)  (XRP / Ripple CryptoCurrency owners sued for escrow-stake)
![](https://api.ipfsbrowser.com/ipfs/get.php?hash=QmdMdd2y7uizNcQDFjpZWzzmk7Eo2So3UhFgvey5L4DqTz)

## Resources 

* [Developers.steem.io/resources](https://developers.steem.io/resources/  )  
* [Github.com/steemit/steem](https://github.com/steemit/steem/) 
* [Steemit, Inc (steem.center)](https://www.steem.center/index.php?title=Steemit,_Inc) 

[hack.md source](https://hackmd.io/@V4wHkRtITv2E8iIBIQJd3g/BJ6tjOTNU) <-Steem INception some ninja/ pre-mined stake links and recent info for context.

#ninja #premined #steem
๐Ÿ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (20)
@firstamendment ·
$0.15
sorry if the below is a partial copy and paste from my own page, just found this thread after someone told me to send aggroed a link.

![image.png](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmPFUm6Z7BDGDTFJEQP91JKevAStTnp5jFVV1NTAhym6t3/image.png)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1466593.msg14812617#msg14812617

  And the site is now archived off the steem chain.
http://archive.is/XXc9F
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@jpbliberty · (edited)
$2.56
Great work! 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogeraitken/2017/01/17/fintech-steemit-migrating-servers-to-amazon-unveils-blockchain-roadmap/#628fc4667dd5
![Screen Shot 20200304 at 21.24.38.png](https://files.steempeak.com/file/steempeak/jpbliberty/p18tdAbo-Screen20Shot202020-03-0420at2021.24.38.png)

This is the sort of evidence we are looking for.
๐Ÿ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@joeyarnoldvn ·
Has that divestment been happening since 2017?
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@intellihandling ·
Hi @aggroed, i've got your name from @themarkymark about give an answer to my question:
https://steemit.com/hive-149678/@intellihandling/what-happens-to-palnet-airdrop
properties (22)
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@nohaa ·
We cannot fully control this decision we must find
ย  A solution to support Steem's Blockchain development team and constantly follow updates to see what this will turn out to be.
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@paulag ·
$0.06
@aggroed I'm nearly sure I read something in the dev slack a long time ago. Is there a database or api access to archived stuff and who could get me access.

@arcange should be able to scan the sql for key words in the comments on the blockchain.

DanL might also be able to help if someone was in contact???????
๐Ÿ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@valued-customer ·
@dantheman is central to this issue, and may find it inadvisable to speak freely regarding present circumstances.  He may also be eager to provide relevant information to illuminate his specific actions to conform to law and ethical standards.

We won't know until he has been contacted regarding the matter.
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@allcapsonezero ·
Dan has been active on twitter regarding this matter.  He has not talked specifically about that, but seems to be fairly interested in the decentralization and success of the steem blockchain.

Posted using [Partiko iOS](https://partiko.app/referral/allcapsonezero)
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@phusionphil ·
Steemit Inc reserves they were called in the first mention I can recall of the Steemit Funds designated for development.

Justin Sun is a major Psychic Leech 
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@rentmoney ·
Perfect, those actions you request is exactlly what is needed. I for one (and I'm sure many others) will be interested in seeing what proof or lack there of comes of this.
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@roomservice ·
Trying to be neutral as possible here - this Steemit Inc.'s disclaimer:

DISCLAIMER
Steemit Inc. (The โ€œCompanyโ€), is a private company that helps develop the open-source software that powers steemit.com, including steemd. The Company may own various digital assets, including, without limitation, quantities of cryptocurrencies such as STEEM. These assets are the sole property of the Company. Further, the Companyโ€™s mission, vision, goals, statements, actions, and core values do not constitute a contract, commitment, obligation, or other duty to any person, company or cryptocurrency network user and are subject to change at any time.

Source: https://steemit.com/about.html

I know this is not the evidence, you are looking for - but we have to face the facts here.
๐Ÿ‘  ,
๐Ÿ‘Ž  ,
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vote details (4)
@clockwork ·
Yes...but also check the TOS.
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@skramatters ·
As if Tron's team of lawyers weren't aware of this.  Come on steem Donnie's u r outta ur element..  The sophomoric level of anything and everything pertaining to the real world is frankly not surprising given the history of steem governance and business ethics.
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@valued-customer ·
Indeed.  I strongly recommend anyone discussing these matters with Tron avail themselves of competent counsel forthwith.  Failure to do so is foolish in the extreme.
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@skramatters · (edited)
Clearly you nerds aren't the most litigious bunch... I'm not even going to waste my time or thumb pressing on this absurd premise..  If y'all can't move on and realise you have no leverage on this matter it's only a further demonstration of your collective incompetence in business as well as governance.. Basically, you look more idiotic than before, which is stupefying..
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@valued-customer ·
Oddly, I find your scathing disregard quite refreshing.  Keep on bashing fact finders.  It's encouraging.
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@skramatters ·
"scathing disregard" I rather like that haha, in another time and place I'd use that as my moniker.. 

It's not my goal to be so obstinate but it's just too easy in lieu of the degradation of currently taking place..  

I appreciate you being able to not simply tell me to f off which I'm quite accustomed to..  It's a fun place to speak freely and perhaps that's the major draw for me.  Plus, i spent many hours learning about this blockchain and others over the last 18 months so there are redeemable attributes.
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@skylinebuds ·
My opinion has turned alot this past few days. Kinda glad you guys are fighting so hard. After hearing that witnesses and sun convo I hope you take back the chain


What are the plans after you guys take back the chain tho? Like his stake, the exchanges stake? Are they going be left alone and 13 week power down?
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@rentmoney ·
What conversation?

Is there a link?
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@skylinebuds ·
https://steempeak.com/steem/@ura-soul/justin-sun-conversation-with-witnesses-is-online-ned-sold-out-the-community-failed-to-disclose
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@ssjsasha ·
$0.18
thank you for helping this chain stay alive
๐Ÿ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@v4vapid ·
$0.39
Hope this helps :)
<B>
![ANN   STEEM  Introducing Steem  Looking for Witnesses   Miners.png](https://files.steempeak.com/file/steempeak/v4vapid/jj8jCQzt-ANN202020STEEM2020Introducing20Steem2020Looking20for20Witnesses202020Miners.png)
<B>
##### https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=22125.0
<B>
##### https://web.archive.org/web/20170602190836/https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=22125.0
<B>
๐Ÿ‘  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@jpbliberty · (edited)
$0.06
From the bitcoin talk page 2:
![Screen Shot 20200304 at 21.51.55.png](https://files.steempeak.com/file/steempeak/jpbliberty/qjCjN2qS-Screen20Shot202020-03-0420at2021.51.55.png)

This guy *bytemaster* is same guy that proposed the code change 324 to code lock Steemit Inc's stake. Did he work for Steemit Inc?
Actually his avatar looks like Dan Larimer. Is it Dan?
๐Ÿ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@roomservice ·
Yep, Dan Larimer was one of the founder of Steemit Inc. until he was pushed out by Ned Scott and forced him into his new project EOS.
๐Ÿ‘Ž  ,
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vote details (2)
@valued-customer · (edited)
$1.00
Here is something posted by @joseph in 2016 that is directly responsive to your inquiry and present need.

https://steempeak.com/steem/@joseph/the-history-of-steem-steemit-launch-in-the-words-of-dan-larimer-from-the-early-launch-days

>"...people like @smooth, @berniesanders, @steemed, @witness.svk, @pharesim, @abit , @arhag, @complexring, @blocktrades, @tombstone, @summon, @cloop1, @steempty, @blackjack, @roadscape, @riverhead, @pumpkin and even @wang."

Have more information as they were personally witnesses to the launch of Steem, and may have records maintained from that time, as the post by @joseph indicates.

@joseph indicates he personally invested in Steem as a result of the statements of @dantheman regarding the use of the stake he, @ned, and Stinc were acquiring through the mining process they controlled.

>"When I noticed the steem thread a couple of weeks after the re-launch it only took me a few hours to read and understand, 24 hours later I was mining Steem, not as early as everyone else. So to make up for lost time as soon as steem hit bittrex exchange I purchased steem with btc and sent it to my steem wallet to vest."

This reveals that investors relied on those assertions, and that those assertions are obligations on that stake presently possessed by Tron and @justinsunsteemit.  Since I can find this record of those assertions in the few minutes since you posted the OP, it is clear @justinsunsteemit could have employed an intern and a couple pots of coffee to find these and more that remain publicly available on the blockchain as part of the due diligence concomitant on the purchaser of a corporation in order to fulfill the obligations of that corporation applicable to whoever owns it.

The claims of Roy (whoever he may be) that those obligations do not affect Tron are easily dismissed, and the stake acquired by Tron is subject to the conditions Stinc placed on it.  Tron now owns that stake, and the obligations it's possession has undertaken to investors now pertain to it's ownership of that stake.  They bought something with specific capabilities and restrictions placed on it.  If they had bought a car, they could not drive it to the moon, because the car is restricted from self propelling to the moon.  Similarly, they cannot simply vote that stake in order to effect governance of the blockchain, nor just sell it on exchanges and have a party in Aruba.  

These are assertions @joseph alleges were made by @dantheman during the creation of Steem:

>"Most of what we are mining will be given away in the future, so what ever concerns there are about our early mining dominance will not matter in the long run."

>"Before everyone gets steemd (let the puns commence!), let me explain a bit about what is going on with this launch:"

>"We want to have a large amount of STEEM to give away via faucets
We don't want to spend a lot of money competing with miners just so we can turn around and give it away
So we have intentionally made the launch unappealing so that we could execute a longer-term strategy.
What this means is that anyone who reads the code and identifies the value within has a huge opportunity, you can get STEEM the cheapest you ever will be able to and therefore are rewarded for your efforts."

>"If you are offended by any of the following then it means you do not get the big picture and will ultimately miss out:"

>"name squatting less than 100 names (registered via mining)
dev mining with 300K HPS (almost nothing really)
not knowing what this is all about
dev getting their STEEM cheap (which means others get it cheep too)
initial centralization of mining
someone owning a large fraction of what they created
All crypto-coins need a business model and a development team behind them or they will fail. Most coins opt for a pre-sale, ICO, or private mining."

>"We have instead opted to go for public mining but low information, which means we are giving savvy miners and people willing to look at our code a HUGE advantage."

These are examples of representations made prior to the investment many have undertaken to acquire Steem subsequent to this mining effort, that significantly restrict and limit the uses to which that stake mined by @dantheman, @ned, and Stinc, can be put.  Since @justinsunsteemit and Tron have purchased exactly what Stinc sold, which is subject to these representations and limits, @justinsunsteemit and Tron are subject to these representations and limitations.

Thanks!
๐Ÿ‘  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@valued-customer ·
please provide a link to the discord.
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@vlemon · (edited)
$1.93
Original Message:
Huh! 

**I am okay for the 1.non voting**

**All the rest is up to Justin Sun. He bought it legally and therefore we cannot decide unilateraly to do whatever we want with this stake ! That will be equivalent to stealing and therefore I would not support itโ€ฆ**

We have to find a solution to support Steem's Blockchain Development Team but if Justin bought Ned's stake, we cannot take it away from him except if it was writtent in a contract that he couldn't use it as he pleases (which I Believe was not the case).

#### Dear Witnesses, Be careful not to go too far in this "fight"...

## Update post clarification

@aggroed is actually looking for proofs that Steemit Inc. said they would use their pre-mined stake to do the Following.

>1. non-voting
>2. used to develop the chain
>3. used for onboarding
>4. any other mention

Sorry for the misunderstanding 
๐Ÿ‘  , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (9)
@azircon ·
You misunderstood.

We are looking for reference to the original mention of the usage for the STEEM INC stake. Likely buried in the blockchain 4 years back.
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@vlemon ·
Yes people told me that afterwards. I understand more and I am less worried now :D.
Sorry !
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@buttcoins · (edited)
Itโ€™s easy to join the fuck Justin parade.   Easy to point fingers.  Easy to get over emotional.   Easy to make demands and fold youโ€™re arms like a stubborn Trump.   Easy to misconstrue, misconceive and latch on to the thing that feed your fears.   Easy to troll and get off on instigating.   Look at my Meme! Look at my Meme!  Iโ€™m so funny!
Itโ€™s harder to step out of self, to see the opposing view.  To care about your enemy and not make them a โ€˜thingโ€™ or a โ€˜theyโ€™.
This community always has pitchforks at the ready.   So many swinging cocks around, massaging there pointless man baby hard ons while clicking at a computer screen. 

This whole fucking thing is a giant nothing burger that can be summed up quickly.

1.Man invests.  

2.Small group of โ€˜leadersโ€™ flex too quickly in the name of protection. 

3.Investor reacts to secure investment.

4.Media shit storm with fake news on all sides.

Get out the popcorn... cause if some level headed voices dont step forward in these negotiations then the pooch is about to get screwed deep doggie style!
๐Ÿ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@edouard ·
You are doing exactly what you are saying people should avoid doing.
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@popcornexpress ·
![](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmZUKwQtFShDVKPFRwZm4sDqiQwaVMgSn7TciApFNk9By2/7.gif)
๐Ÿ‘Ž  
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vote details (1)
@skramatters ·
$0.03
A minority voice of reason and logic.. I didn't think anyone was left that understands the big boy world of merger acquisition finance.
๐Ÿ‘  
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vote details (1)
@valued-customer ·
$0.13
Regardless of your pejorative assertions, @justinsunsteemit purchased a specific asset which has specific capabilities and limitations.  He cannot now simply pretend it is something else.

It is what it is, and as it's owner he is obligated to honor what it is.

In the run up to the launch of the public website during the mining process, Stinc, specifically @dantheman, said:

>"For those who are doing the math, this means we have mined 75% of the STEEM held by current accounts.
For those who are worried about us dumping, we intend to convert it all to VESTS at the end of the week.
VESTS are locked up, non-transverable, non-divisible, STEEM that can only be unlocked via 104 equal weekly payments (2 years)."

This was an obligation Stinc undertook to limit it's use of that stake, which as far as I know they met fully.  Just as that obligation applied to the stake @justinsunsteemit purchased, other obligations also applied, and some of those obligations remain outstanding and currently unmet in full.

Those obligations Stinc remains liable to fulfill, and as the owner of Stinc, @justinsunsteemit and Tron are liable to fulfill them.  If Tron did not do as I did and research the public statements made by Stinc and it's devs prior to their purchase that obligated Stinc to specific liabilities, that's on Sun and Tron.  As I have repeatedly pointed out, all that would have required to do is an intern and a couple pots of coffee to undertake.

You'd think a billionaire could afford such a trifling cost to understand an asset he was considering purchasing.  Regardless of whether Sun did due diligence or not, Stinc is what it is, and what it is remains obligated to investors that purchased Steem from it in reliance on it's representations.  Sun owns Stinc, and is now obligated to fulfill those obligations.

That's simply corporate law.
๐Ÿ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@joeyarnoldvn ·
Legally speaking, you can argue that Tron Overlord Justin Sun can do certain things. But at the same time, that does not necessarily mean he should. Also, we should also consider how things can affect Steem itself as a blockchain, as a whole, as opposed to just the Steemit Inc company.
properties (22)
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@valued-customer ·
Do have a look at my reply to the OP, in which I copy and paste specific statements made by @dantheman that state restrictions placed on the Stinc stake that is what Tron and @justinsunsteemit purchased.  They didn't purchase something without restrictions.  They purchased what Stinc possessed, which had been alleged from it's conception to be used for a specific purpose, not simply unrestricted Steem that could be sold without obligation to subsequent investors.
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@crypto-pilot ·
I may not fully have an understanding of the situation, but, if there was an agreed upon limitation placed upon the stake by the previous owner, and that owner sold the stake to someone else, unless that someone else agreed to the restriction then the restriction no longer stands. Therefore, it should be Ned that everyone is pissed off at and not Justin Sun. If I was Justin Sun, and I just bought a metric $hit ton of Steem, and I own Steemit, I could care less about some verbal agreement that Ned made with the community years ago.
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@zaibkang ·
1.non-votin
2.used to develop the chain 

Both options 
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