create account

RE: Is life a source code running on a computer over and over? by alfar

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com

Viewing a response to: @farzin/is-life-a-source-code-running-on-a-computer-over-and-over

· @alfar ·
This is an interesting question.

I will try and answer this in perhaps a slightly unorthodox way.

First, let us examine what we know about life. A human being is only 10% human, 90% of the cells are useful bacteria. Being human, then, is not quite what it first appears. Those bacteria handle digestion, program your immune system, even regulate some functions of your brain. Some of those bacteria first appeared long before humans evolved. This raises a few questions as to what a human even is. However, I'll set that aside.

Cells, whether bacteria or human, consist of DNA (a sequence of base 4 instructions that are poorly understood and are likely a lot more complicated than imagined), viruses edited and enslaved by the cell to perform various functions, and chemical messengers. Human cells and some bacteria also have mitochondria, which are also enslaved organisms.

I could continue, but it's not necessary. The upshot is that - at every level - you have a hybrid organism. It's a gestalt, a superorganism of many different creatures, the fact that some have more power than others isn't important. Ok, organism is perhaps not the right word, but how else to describe entities that are confined but exist otherwise independently? They're all borderline on "living", yet unquestionably are alive in their own sense.

We are therefore a superorganism that is comprised of superorganisms. The fact that it's all confined to a frame is of no more importance than it is for the components of a cell. It doesn't change anything of substance.

Now, I'm going to change tack entirely. There have been many cases, now, of patients having their blood replaced with a salt water solution, having their heart stopped, and being cooled to 5'C (about 40'F, I think). They have no brain function. The bioelectrical field has stopped. There is no metabolism. Cells are not using oxygen to gain energy. Is this death?

By any medical standards, it is. There is no detectable indication of any kind of life at any kind of level. There isn't any blood to carry oxygen and therefore all cells have shut down.

This state can be maintained for four hours without harm. It can then be reversed and the patient returns to life. This is now fairly routine in some hospitals for cases where operations would otherwise be too dangerous.

What does this mean? It means pretty much what you might expect it to mean, if you are a superorganism. The cells have adapted to such conditions, so they survive just fine. The patient vanishes when the cells disconnect and reappears when the cells reconnect.

This makes perfect sense, when you think about it. Every cell in your body has been replaced at least once. Including brain cells. Yet "you" have existed throughout all of that.

Are you a computer program? In a way, yes. Everything that happens in you is "computable", that is to say any computer could simulate you, perfectly, if given the same sensory data and enough time to process it.

But you are a computer program in another sense, too. It is a fundamental law of nature that information cannot be created or destroyed. All the information that has ever passed between all the cells that influence you still exists. It was emitted by each cell as electromagnetic radiation. If you replay that information, you would get a person behaving in exactly the same way. Since physics is time-reversible, it is just as legitimate to consider your body as being programmed by that electromagnetic radiation. There is no physical experiment you can perform that can prove which way round it is.

That also means, of course, that death becomes curious. Unless every brain cell and every microorganism in you dies at the same time, whatever is alive at the point of death can't be you. You are simply the product of the imagination of every cell in your body. If half the cells have gone, whatever is being imagined isn't you.

Indeed, since you are a product of the imagination of all the cells, a byproduct of being a superorganism, as shown by the medical procedure described and the DNA research on the microbiome, and since the cells themselves are superorganisms of things that aren't strictly alive, is life itself just a product of the imagination of the non-living? (And does that make us undead?)
👍  , , , ,
properties (23)
authoralfar
permlinkre-farzin-is-life-a-source-code-running-on-a-computer-over-and-over-20160729t002249690z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"]}
created2016-07-29 00:22:51
last_update2016-07-29 00:22:51
depth1
children3
last_payout2016-08-28 12:46:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length4,292
author_reputation86,477,131,514
root_title"Is life a source code running on a computer over and over?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id451,193
net_rshares2,961,248,157
author_curate_reward""
vote details (5)
@farzin ·
Wow. Awesome. Steemit is wonderful because i can find people like you. I need to read it over and over to suck in every single word and then i get back to you for more discission. In the meanwhile one thing to mention. Like u said our cells are replaced at certain paces. Once some are dead their memory has to remaim and emit. Right? As we know central nervous system is non-regenarating. The point i am trying to make is thag some copy of you as an identity should be saved. Is the hard disk the brain or ...?
👍  
properties (23)
authorfarzin
permlinkre-alfar-re-farzin-is-life-a-source-code-running-on-a-computer-over-and-over-20160729t005448513z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"]}
created2016-07-29 00:54:45
last_update2016-07-29 00:54:45
depth2
children1
last_payout2016-08-28 12:46:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length511
author_reputation14,051,437,891
root_title"Is life a source code running on a computer over and over?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id451,711
net_rshares62,715,585
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@alfar ·
I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, so apologies if I have misunderstood.

First, there were reports (sorry, I googled and can't find the links) that there were mysterious proteins at the junction of a synapse and a neuron. It was suggested at the time that synapses were not permanent, as often thought, but regularly replaced, with these proteins telling the neuron what to do to actually rebuild a synapse. As I said, I can't find the cite or a link to this theory, so I can't offer evidence of whether it is correct or whether it was falsified. What I can say is that this may be part of the storage.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/neurons_constantly_rewrite_their_dna
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16879837
http://www.salk.edu/news-release/study-finds-a-patchwork-of-genetic-variation-in-the-brain/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3083085/

What has been repeatedly verified is that each neuron has unique DNA. It has been reorganized and then modified. Systematically. Different regions show different types of modification. Further, the brain has extensive mechanisms for repairing changes due to damage that do not repair these other modifications. There are far more changes (running into the thousands) than there are types of neuron, but if you multiply the number of neuron types by the maximum number of synapses, you get a number that is about right to describe what the neuron is remembering, what it is all about.

The obvious conclusion is that the DNA must be being used as storage of the state of the neuron. Unexpected changes would lead to all kinds of new synapses forming, so neurons would want to stop that.

I'm not convinced neurons don't divide, juvenile neurons must for the brain to build and there simply aren't enough stem cells to explain the structural changes observed. If neurons divide, they can preserve their state from one generation of brain cell to another. If this is the case, DNA would be the hard drive. The brain would back itself up onto an 87-billion drive striped-mode RAID array inside its own genetic code.

This could be tested, although it would take a while. If all you need to replace a brain is the DNA, then if you took a group of adaptive brains, mapped their connectome in full, then sequenced each neuron in each, you should see a perfect 1:1 relationship between each bit of connectome and the DNA in the neurons. Hard-coded brains wouldn't tell you much.

If I am correct, that this is the backup store, then things get far more lively. Tracing synapses is hard (there's an online project where you can give it a go with actual brain cells - my accuracy was horrible). Sequencing DNA is easier, reliable and faster. If all you need to define the brain is the set of changes, it's a lot less data than the full genome. (The whole human genome consists of about 3 billion pairs of nucleic acid, so a few thousand changes is about one millionth as much in terms of data volume, whether the changes are mutations or wholesale rearranging of genes.)

The rest of the DNA likely does a lot that is important and the changes may well turn other bits of the DNA on and off. But that part of the data is more-or-less fixed.

Understanding that reorganization will, I suspect, be key to the Human Brain Project and the Connectome Project. It may also be key to repairing the brain, as DNA from cells crushed into oblivion by tau protein plaques might be protected by those plaques. If you could recover it and insert it into lab-grown cells, those cells should try to reform the connections of the original cells.

http://tbistemcellstudy.ucsf.edu/
http://www.stemedica.com/info/allogeneic-adult-stem-cells/stem-cell-clinical-trials/2016-05-18-FDA-Grants-IND-Approval-to-Stemedica-for-Traumatic-Brain-Injury-Phase-IIa-Clinical-Trial.asp

Basically, similar to what these guys are actually doing in medical trials, only with preprogrammed specializations they aren't using. I wish the researchers luck, and expect them to have some success, but those changes aren't cosmetic and without them, you're missing something although nobody knows what.
👍  ,
properties (23)
authoralfar
permlinkre-farzin-re-alfar-re-farzin-is-life-a-source-code-running-on-a-computer-over-and-over-20160729t040734973z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"links":["http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/neurons_constantly_rewrite_their_dna"]}
created2016-07-29 04:07:36
last_update2016-07-29 04:07:36
depth3
children0
last_payout2016-08-28 12:46:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length4,136
author_reputation86,477,131,514
root_title"Is life a source code running on a computer over and over?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id454,483
net_rshares339,712,287
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@willbeonceagain8 ·
very interesting theory. I like your original thinking on the subject , will be doing some more research on this.
👍  
properties (23)
authorwillbeonceagain8
permlinkre-alfar-re-farzin-is-life-a-source-code-running-on-a-computer-over-and-over-20160729t003359023z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"]}
created2016-07-29 00:33:57
last_update2016-07-29 00:33:57
depth2
children0
last_payout2016-08-28 12:46:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length113
author_reputation756,272,875,053
root_title"Is life a source code running on a computer over and over?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id451,411
net_rshares114,006,484
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)