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A request to look under the hood of POB by azircon

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @azircon · (edited)
$59.30
A request to look under the hood of POB
# A request

I will keep tags on this post to a minimum, I am only tagging people who I think might act on this. Just to give a background, all these started due to reward disagreement on a 2nd layer token, POB, where hive witnesses have limited governance control. However, as a hive engine token it is still build on hive, so we can't sidestep our responsibility. As an investor, stakeholder on hive, it is my responsibility to investigate before I make a commitment to invest.

Mind you, anyone can start a Tribe and launch a Hive-Engine Token (a small amount of fee is required). There are 100s of hive engine tokens, but only a few with any real 'value'. If the token has no real value, it doesn't have any danger of financial loss related to a potential investor. But if it has value, then the question becomes different. Then there is a potential of financial loss.

Yesterday, another large investor on POB raised a question that remained not properly answered, for a number small investors like myself. So I like to raise it and get our team to look into it if they have any spare time.


<center> ![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/azircon/23wMuephuPWkNfaLDhzMBjkhgHKRtFzXp4htcSBydpTcDkMWdA9NjSAN61ZwWgyAQvfrQ.png) </center>

The question from the screenshot above is simple, why the main account is preferentially voting the two accounts shown here? 

# Answer


In DPOS, there is no requirement to give explanation for upvote or downvote. 

Also in POB, I am told the main account follow a trail by calumam, and I quote his comment below

>  but as far as "why" someone votes for these two POB legends, I can see the merit.

#### **Sounds reasonable to me.**

Therefore, if I paraphrase it. I like something I upvote and don't like something I downvote; there is no other content restriction in POB. So, no explanation of any kind is required.

However, as an investor we can always ask questions. If we don't get answer we can act accordingly.

Yesterday both Blocktrades and I spend quite a lot of our personal time to answer questions. We have been polite and patient to the project manager of POB proofofbrainio. However, I don't intend to spent any more time on 'explanation'.

I offered my help and support to this project. Since it is build on hive, I will have some experts to take a look at tokenomics and reward distribution. I think it will benefit all investors of POB token.

@themarkymark is an expert on hive engine tokens, a top 20 witness, knowledgable on blockchain technology, and fighting abuse longer than any one of us have done. Marky published an excellent post yesterday which throws light on some of the concerns some of us investors have on POB.

https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@themarkymark/the-biggest-risk-with-hive-engine-tribes-is-the-owner

I like to request Marky, if he has time of course, to kindly look into the POB token distribution, rewards and technical flaws if any.

@dalz is a data geek. If he has time, may be he can look into who gets majority of the rewards on POB, so that we can visualize it in beautiful chart, please. 

@abh12345 Ash, I know you are busy, but this trail @calumam talks about that the main account of @proofofbrainio follows, is it possible to extract voting pattern from Hive SQL? No rush, of course.

I really appreciate all the help folks, because I think it is our responsibility as an investor to look under the hood of this Tribe and see if things checks out! There is no rush on this, and I am asking a favor please, if you can't manage it, I won't be offended. I just think many small investors are buying this token and it is our responsibility and bit of a community service to help them out.

Many thanks!

đź‘Ť  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 175 others
đź‘Ž  , ,
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vote details (242)
@claudio83 ·
As an investor you have perfectly all the reasons to do your verifications and I thank you for sharing them, for example I personally have not done such a survey.

It will probably be linked to a trail (I am not able to verify it)
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@azircon ·
Yes, thank you!

That is what I thought. Also most people don't have access to all the tool and experience that Hive team has. No worries, we will get this sorted out :)
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@claudio83 ·
it seems that lucylin regularly sends POB to frot. Are the two accounts then linked?
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@cryptoxicate ·
This is excellent bro, thanks!
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@azircon ·
You are welcome. Trying to do some community service :)
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@dalz ·
I will create a leo.stats like post for POB in about a week ... just a note that this will be just a data representation in a neutral way
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@azircon ·
Absolutely! Many thanks in advance!
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@drutter ·
Oh okay good, the regulators are here to keep the free market safe.
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@dunstuff ·
i have also asked this similar question ( tbh, tldr, and i only made it though to the first ping of user ( makry) before i scroled down to reply. my issue with my experience here, has always been with trails. my issue with crypto is that, if the user dies, they are still forever richer... if they had enough of the start supply, and they are 'ghost voting' the 2nds and 3rd richest posters.... its ... not fair on those with actual content, that doesnt even get looked at if it 'misses the right tag' or assimilar.

im adhd af, and my memory, at times, is shot. i have no 'prefered post style' and i try to mix it up quite a bit... if ... like... just 5 people engaged ... they might get a chance to meet me, and/or the life experiences ive had, and the brain i have developed. but beause im broke af ( homelessness has plagued my existence. there have been years where i have been in 5 accomodations in less than a year, and tbh homelessness is actually my prefered option if i had to chose, re beaing a nomad, in a cave, with wifi.. but i majorly digressed af on that one :P

a 'test' post from one of these high ups, should not merit $100+ - i dont care how much they have invested in the plarform over the years. lets get out of 'participation medal' culture

sorry, i fear i come across as a bit of a douche, but, 4 years of 'ooh, a dollar this week?' has got me to the point of 'why would i spend, 4-20 HOURS on a post ( example, the timelapses i was doin 3 odd years ago )
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUYDUgVLhXw9lEDzrgZzlseg
to get 30 cents? - LESS than the cost to use the device for 5 hrs to get the content?

anyways, ill stop there cos ive probably tangented toooo many times to be comprehensible.
on the plus side, maybe my 'replies' section will go nuts, and i can engage more
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@nathen007 ·
>The question from the screenshot above is simple, why the main account is preferentially voting the two accounts shown here?

I read @lucylin regularly so perhaps its because he's a bloody good writer. At the end of the day, If you go to the trouble of setting up a community, its your baby and you can do as you wish and vote for who you wish as with the rest of the chain. If people want to downvote, they can. If they want to set up their own community, they can.
On the main chain, shot posters regularly get huge upvotes from huge stakeholders and very few do or say anything. Someone sets up a tribe and all I see is endless, childish posts!

My suggestion is 'let it be'. At the end of the day, large stakeholders care about curation rewards and very little else. That's DPoS...
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@azircon · (edited)
I totally agree!

That is DPOS.

But if it is my money, I would rather do a bit of research...right?

PS. This is not about lucylin, why it seems like POB = Lucylin? I am doing some basic research before I invest some money into POB. It is perfectly within my ability...right?

Also that question above is not mine...I just thought it is an interesting question on distribution of rewards.
đź‘Ť  
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vote details (1)
@nathen007 · (edited)
Well, you used him as an example of rewards on which your post was based that's all.

Your post was viewing things from a financial investment basis as many people do and again, all to their own. I look at things from a time and human basis, it's how I decide to whom I cast my little votes which due to their size is my way to show appreciation for the effort and/or content laid before me.

Nice to see you handling the feedback in your usual balanced and pragmatic persona ! Best wishes .Any community you get on board with will be all the better for having you @azircon
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@tarazkp ·
His early works are exceptional.
https://hive.blog/introducemyself/@lucylin/hello-steemit-i-m-lucy-my-first-post
đź‘Ť  
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vote details (1)
@nathen007 ·
I always assumed she was a he! Irony?
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@nathen007 ·
>The question from the screenshot above is simple, why the main account is preferentially voting the two accounts shown here?

I read @lucylin regularly so perhaps its because he's a bloody good writer. At the end of the day, If you go to the trouble of setting up a community, its your baby and you can do as you wish and vote for who you wish as with the rest of the chain. If people want to downvote, they can. If they want to set up their own community, they can. Great content writers encourage users to visit to read and hopefully motivates people to try harder! It's called PROOF OF BRAIN after all!
On the main chain, shit posters regularly get huge upvotes from huge stakeholders and very few do or say anything. Someone sets up a tribe and all I see is endless, childish posts!

My suggestion is 'let it be'. At the end of the day, large stakeholders care about curation rewards and very little else. I see one huge stakeholder on here earlier this week giving some major BS about all the accounts he votes. He is a shit poster, and always has been and he's bought and posted crap in there to get a huge stake then comes on here bragging about all the accounts he votes. That was a set-up. He voted my alt account twice in the previous week and never again since that post and only a few weeks ago, was downvoting the same account/ Point is, that's his choice too. There's absolutely fuck all altruism on this chain. That's DPoS and it is what it is and all we have. At the end of the day, we all have choices...
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@azircon ·
Again, we are in violent agreement.

It is indeed people's choice.
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@nealmcspadden ·
$0.49
So I was linked here from a random discord chat and I have to say I am confused.

What is the issue? You don't like that some accounts are getting more POB votes than others?

> I offered my help and support to this project. Since it is build on hive, I will have some experts to take a look at tokenomics and reward distribution. I think it will benefit all investors of POB token.

This gave me a chuckle

Also, downvoted for rewards disagreement.
đź‘Ť  ,
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vote details (2)
@azircon ·
Lol! Yes, thank you for that DV Neal, I would have done that :) 

Regarding POB… not really… some Spams were getting rewarded obscenely as the token rallied on thin market. No worries, all normal. 
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@dunstuff ·
$0.39
clarification for my sporadic understanding ... supply was low, demand was high, and someone found a magic cow, that was generating 'more milk that the average cow' so they hit the teet hard?
đź‘Ť  
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vote details (1)
@onealfa · (edited)
> but this trail @calumam talks about that the main account of @proofofbrainio follows, is it possible to extract voting pattern from Hive SQL?

This is what I have found:
https://i.imgur.com/L91BxYf.png
Source: https://hive.vote/dash.php?i=15&id=1&user=calumam

172647 POB voting power can bring up to 245 POB in rewards, on just one single vote click.
No more comment at this time...



---

<center><sub>Posted via [proofofbrain.io](https://www.proofofbrain.io/@onealfa/qur49j)</sub></center>
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@azircon ·
Thank you!
properties (22)
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@calumam ·
![image.png](https://images.ecency.com/DQmQ97NB97x1UFriEf6G88U9mjkHr5RzqgRTZbdsB8jsnbo/image.png)

đź‘Ť  ,
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vote details (2)
@azircon ·
someone I know said that ..

> It’s a low yield drama. So no point really.

I think I will take your advice, regarding going out more :)
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@repayme4568 ·
On point nice said🤝
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@azircon ·
Appreciated!
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@scholaris.pob ·
$0.03
I agree POB is a second layer HIVE token.  I hope there was never any confusion about this fact, but apparently it existed.  

I feel I can write with some level of confidence here.  I've been more involved with the POB community than anywhere else since I joined HIVE.  The lack of restrictions on the content you're allowed to write is what drew me to the group.  Once I entered, I did the same as I've done before:  research a topic, write about it, post, and engage.  

And then I met @Calumam.  It was Calumam's word of the week contest that drew me in further to the group.  I had not heard of an attempt to improve content quality to such a degree.  I joined the contest to write the breakdown for the grading.  Part of my responsibility became screening the articles for questionable activity.  I felt the easiest component to tackle was plagiarism.  I learned that it was certainly NOT the easiest component to tackle.  It gave me a new respect for the HW and HDR work, and, in addition to one of Lucy's articles, it made me appreciate the value of the DV.  

Did you know my position on DV'ing started changing after reading one of Lucy's posts defending it (maybe indirectly)?  True story.  

The point of this winded commentary is to write that I believe in what the community is doing enough to work long hours to help support it.  On that note, I've tried to read all HW posts to form a pattern of evaluation for articles I am curating (since 1/2020).  Moderating articles is still something I'm not comfortable with, and I hope that feeling passes soon, but it needs to get done.  Marky is the only other person whose articles I've read most of, and I think we can both agree that was an educational experience (it took a really long time, and I'm not done yet).  

I see the activities you've requested regularly outside of the HIVE blockchain.  My only argument is that I really wish it could be done for all significant tokens.  

Yet, I have no issues with your article either.  I have to present and defend information for both regulators and companies as part of my job for two decades now.  If I present information, I need to defend it.  If I receive tasks or projects to run, I must comply with a litany of regulations.  If someone didn't ask for this now, someone would have asked about it eventually.  It is my place as an investor to let everyone know that this data review will likely happen with or without anyone's knowledge.  The reason I know this is because I have to do this daily on the outside.  

I appreciate your raising these concerns publicly.  I have not performed the data analysis you've requested, but as I've been reading through those data tables, what you're requesting is possible.  Those more fluent in HIVE tools will be able to provide your data relatively quickly, I imagine.  

There are some great people in POB.  I feel that Calumam is one of them.  I think POB is good people too, but I haven't interacted with him regularly.  It reminded me of the interactions I've had in theterminal when I first started.  

Best of luck in your investigation.  I look forward to the next article.  Again, regarding my response length, my bad.



---

<center><sub>Posted via [proofofbrain.io](https://www.proofofbrain.io/@scholaris.pob/qurnon)</sub></center>
đź‘Ť  ,
đź‘Ž  
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vote details (3)
@azircon · (edited)
How do you feel if POB mute an investor and a veteran user of Hive team after 1 post. That’s what happened.

What do you think will happen next?

PS. Do you understand what mute means from a tribe level? My posts can't show up on POB and I can't curate or get any tribe reward. What do you think someone like me will do next? :)
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@enforcer48 ·
It’s their tribe, they can do as they wish. That was the whole point of the tribe set up. 
đź‘Ť  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@scholaris ·
I would have issues with that action if no explanation came of it as an investor.  I assume this stemmed from the Lucylin recent post?  Skin in the game?

Your argument along with BT and everyone else started heatedly.  It changed over time to be somewhat professional.  I felt it was a good conversation to be had.  If you were muted based upon that conversation I would have concerns.  

My understanding of muting is as you explained.  I have recommended it in the past but only for stuff that HW would flag for…illegal things.  

On what you would do.  Given your report on the muting I have a good idea given your past responses. I could even predict multiple outcomes.  The end result may be good people getting caught in a digital crossfire.  I’m asking that pob and hive leaders resolve this dispute promptly.

I would like to know the reason for the mute myself.  I feel actions like that need transparency @proofofbrainio.  I should have added relatively quick transparency.  I find muting to be a serious action.  Having only read Lucy’s post and responses I felt it was similar to the rebuttals between Onealpha, clicmaster, and Cal.  
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@tarazkp ·
$0.23
You were muted? But what about your freedom of speech!?! :D
đź‘Ť  
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vote details (1)
@themarkymark ·
$1.26
> I like to request Marky, if he has time of course, to kindly look into the POB token distribution, rewards and technical flaws if any.

I am not a stake holder in pob, as a second layer token with any stake my opinion is fairly meaningless. 

I have not looked into how large stake holders vote on pob as there is nothing I can do about it anyway.  I do however frequently report obvious garbage I come across.  

In general a tribe can do whatever they want and those actions will influence if people invest or not. 

As a hive stake holder and as a top 20 witness I still have no say or influence on what goes on in a tribe I hold no stake in.  I have frequently made suggestions in their discord but that’s all they are, suggestions. 

My recent posts are merely from a technical point a view and used pob and leo as examples as they are the most popular but my points are strictly related to tribe and hive engine technology specifically.  

 
đź‘Ť  ,
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vote details (2)
@azircon ·
Thank you, Marky. As you know very well that I don’t hold any meaningful stake in POB either. Yes, of course I understand the governance issue. This could be an issue regarding onealpha who holds some stake and I have warned him and explained the risks.

For smaller stakeholders I will write my opinions after I collect a bit more information.

Many thanks Marky. This is quite helpful already.
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@xiko · (edited)
lol arseicon days ago claimed "I'm a big time, game on" to his new target. Vowed to hurt him severely.

Now he's asking for help in trying to hurt the tribe where his target resides.

Shit what happened to big time mover exercising leet high roller moves..

"they muted me.. I got no power" said the big-time high roller.

lmao!

oh shit wait.. I'm muted too.

Marky, you're a veteran here.
Do you think this ego flex by the few 'whales' that are still here is a positive to any future initiatives to attract investment into Hive?

Certain few are making sure this thing dies a sad death. Justin Sun and his steemy was the one to experience that wasn't it. At least that's what everyone here hoped for.

Those early days of hardforking were all "we're a strong community" but barely a year on and now everyone's attacking each other. Even blocktrades showed how petty he is.

Anyway my view has no weight because my wallet says so true. lol
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@urun ·
Time will tell if the coin will fall massive or not. The point is 100% upvote cycle jerk will end up the token in fewer hands.

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