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What is this weird fee? by bacchist

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steem · @bacchist ·
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What is this weird fee?
I noticed a field labelled simply "fee" when performing a recent update of my witness. It does not seem to be related to the account creation fee, and I'm not aware of any witnesses using a non-zero value. Is there anybody out there that can offer some insight?

Here is where I first noticed it...

<center>http://i.imgsafe.org/fdf1939675.png</center>

And then later I realized that steemd.com is showing it as well...

<center>http://i.imgsafe.org/fdf1a6e277.png</center>

One suggestion from @riverhead in #witness on steemit.chat was that it might be an artifact of sorts from BitShares, since their transactions typically involve fees.

It might be a coincidence, but I only noticed this after upgrading to the latest version of Steem in anticipation of Tuesday's hard fork. So I'm thinking that it also might be part of preparation for a new feature that is in the works.

What do you think?
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vote details (138)
@liberosist · 
Pretty sure this "fee" has been around for a long time - I've noticed it earlier too. I always assumed it's a provision for transaction fees, but none are applied right now. But yes, @riverhead's suggestion makes a ton of sense too.
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properties (22)
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@williambanks · 
Looks like it's in the same place as on bitshares.  A 0 fee model is probably unsustainable.  But you gotta ask, who's that fee going to?
https://github.com/steemit/steem/search?p=2&q=fee

Looks to me like it's one of two things.  Account creation fee now appears to be 100 steem for mined accounts, and also there is also just a "pay_fee" function with a "fee" field attached to every transaction type.  however the code is never actually calling pay_fee yet.

https://github.com/steemit/steem/search?q=pay_fee
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vote details (2)
@bacchist · (edited)
Why would a 0 fee model be unsustainable? Right now there are no fees, and I view that as a huge advantage.

You're right to ask who would receive the fees... Burning them would be one option I'd consider valid. Another might be for escrows or other service providers. I'd be interested in hearing the team's thoughts.

But account creation fee is still a parameter set by witness feeds. Most witnesses have increased theirs as the price dropped. The  current fee is 30 STEEM, but many witnesses are publishing 50. (I myself have been using 42 for a while :) see [my most recent witness update post](https://steemit.com/witness-category/@bacchist/witness-update-2016-11-05-sbd-interest-rate))
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vote details (1)
@williambanks · 
Well it's not that I truly believe a 0 fee model is unsustainable, but maybe you and I differ on our idea of fee in this context.

Fundamentally if you run a business you need to earn an income somehow.  Right now as witnesses you get witness pay.  If all the coins were mined and witness pay stopped or was reduced to the point that you could no longer afford to run a witness node, would you continue?

Witness pay is a type of fee, but it's a subsidized fee.

Promoted items are a great example of fees in action.  The money for promoted materials is destroyed.  This is a fee, it's just an "at will fee".  You can choose to pay it or not.  If you do, it makes everyone else a little richer by providing a sink for excess liquidity. 

Charging fees for services is a great idea.  As long as steem remains the cheapest option for those services it will work.  But if using steem suddenly "bears a cost" it reduces the utility of the platform and people will seek lower cost alternatives.
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vote details (1)
@wisehammer · 
Fee is something basic just to keep it ruled.
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vote details (1)
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