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RE: Steemit Is A Free System! It's Just Ruled By Money by bbilgin

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· @bbilgin ·
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The question I have about anarchy and libertarianism is how do you plan to solve the security problem without collecting taxes and maintaining an army?
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@wordsword · (edited)
One thing anyone can do (has a right to do) is defend themselves, that's the most basic right, that no one can take from you. (with one exception of course and that is when you aggress against others. So no laws that say you may not have a gun or may have a gun if you have permission from the masters/rulers. ( In america you still have the second amendment here in europe, in some country you get a fine if you carry pepper spray smh)

But that  in and of itself would make it unattractive for criminals  to go around, steal and murder, because the risk of meeting some one with a gun and getting killed is much higher with an armed population.

I go on to the army question know.

Can you imagine that it would be very hard for a country (if they still exist then) to go from door to door, to invade large piece of land (what previous was called country)
It's much easier to invade a land and take over the system than if there is not such a system.
Going from door to door would be very risky with people that are armed and have communication in one way or another.

But now organization.
If you don't want, or can not defend yourself, then people could hire "police". But then " police" would only have rights that you and I also have.

 Dale brown in Detroit is one example on how it could work I can also imagine security firms  like you have now, or maybe an neighborhood watch. Or a gated community.
There are lot's more idea's where I might not even have thought of.

Instead of an army there could be militias that you hire or maybe work in.

You could work with insurance firms and there could be private courts. Which is nothing more than a third person that you both trust that you could hire. 
It could be that those firms have ratings like on amazon is on thing I can imagine so you can see which are trustworthy. But it can also be as  simple as, just a normal person, that is trusted, in a town or  community, or what ever, that gives his opinion. Because what is a judge other than a normal person that gives his opinion.

I will get back to you with some video's I have to search on the net.

Oh firefighters......... could be volunteers, just like now, or payed private  firefighter firms, 
or crowdfunded......
But what if someone has no contract with them, are they gonna stand there and watch the house burn down? Is a question you get a lot ;)

Well here I can imagine a few things.
They put the fire out and send a bill later or they sign a new contract that has higher fees, like insurance.

But maybe  that if I as a neighbour have a contract, and if there is a danger that the flames go to my house, they might put out the fire anyway to prevent other houses from burning down.
I personally would pay for them even if that danger was not there or chip in afterward if they got a bill.
There could be a possibility of charity. 
I can also imagine that some don't even want a contract but want to have their own sprinkler installation or whatever.
There are probably way more idea's than I can think of, and then again, I don't have to write a master plan for the whole world, before I can be free ;) 

But I like to give people some idea's I've thought of and have come across.
I know it's not easy when you must think about those things because daddy and mommy government have always don it for you 
You could see it so that we have been kept children, and for a reason and that reason is control.
Being a free adult individual  asks form you to take responsibility for yourself and for your surroundings. It can seem like a lot of work, if you have never thought about it And before I became an voluntaryist I had never thought about these thinks. But it has to start somewhere.

[Larken Rose just wrote this article a day ago which talk also about this stuff from an other perspective.](https://steemit.com/anarchy/@larkenrose/if-murder-were-legal)

I'll get back to you with some articles/video's..... can take a few day's though.

Peace :)
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@bbilgin ·
>One thing anyone can do (has a right to do) is defend themselves, that's the most basic right, that no one can take from you.

There are several problems with self-defence.

The first problem with self-defence is unless there's a huge difference in power and skill, the person who makes the first move wins. That means the best way to defend yourself is to attack someone who you think will attack you. But if you do that, you are the guilty one in front of the jury. 

The second problem is that there's always someone who has more power than you. We always think about the internal security of a country. But if another country decides to organize themselves militarily, they can easily wipe out the other countries who are ruled by anarchy.

>But that in and of itself would make it unattractive for criminals to go around, steal and murder, because the risk of meeting some one with a gun and getting killed is much higher with an armed population.

I disagree. It's easier to die by a bullet than to starve to death. You're making the assumption that criminals are these rational people who will be deterred by the armed population.

Suppose that we create a society where there is a gun and a well-trained gunman in each home. What would you do if you were a criminal wanting to rob a home? The most rational way to do that would be to gang up with other criminals to overpower a single gunman and to rob a home.

What is going to happen if gangs overpower the single gunman in several homes and rob those homes? Homeowners are going to build neighborhood watches. Then you have the police, and eventually an army. Then you end up with exactly where we are right now.

>Can you imagine that it would be very hard for a country (if they still exist then) to go from door to door, to invade large piece of land (what previous was called country)
It's much easier to invade a land and take over the system than if there is not such a system.

I can imagine. This is exactly what Genghis Khan did back in the day.

>Going from door to door would be very risky with people that are armed and have communication in one way or another.

Not risky at all. If they communicate with each other and help each other out, you're already moving towards building a government.

Thank you, but I'm not interested diving deeper into this topic, because I don't think it's feasible in the first place. Humanity has evolved the way they evolved. People organize themselves in governments and even at higher levels than that like the European Union, Nato, and so on. There's a reason for that, because unity results in power. We don't live in an ideal world, because as humans we are not ideal beings. I wish we lived in an utopian world where everybody respected each other's rights and we didn't need all of these organizations to defend ourselves, but it is what it is.

I don't think you can defend yourself with your gun and your martial defence skills in a place without government, no matter how much responsibility you take. At the end, you mention to need to hire a firm to protect you. That resembles very much to the system we have right now.
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@wordsword · (edited)
All the things you mention that would happen, happen with a government also. Most are done by government.

If I meet a murderer, I'm dead.
If I meet a rapist, I'm raped. (unless I can run or defend myself of course)
There is no police around,  what they are good in is drawing chalk lines.
The idea that crimes are prevented from happening is an illusion. 
If one country overruns the other the country is done.
That's life, people only got the silly idea the [their gang and warlords](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHEc7QjZ4Q)are their protectors.....mostly because they, as children were locked up in [child indoctrination forced labor camps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMhURei8N6Q)


It's not utopian, to organize for defense without violating the people you defend it's only new. neighbourhood watches even the ones that would grow into an army  do not magically grow into government. They would miss the religious aspect.

An organization does not magically change in a government either. No one sees the mafia as having" the moral right to rule", the way they see that with government. 


I hate Nato. If  you do a search on depleted uranium, you know why. (bosnia Irak) In Bosnia they also did not protect the people, nato disarmed them, and then they let the enemy take them, without taking any action to intervene, they stood there and watched litteraly,  how the masses get moved, to later be locked up in buildings and slaughtered.

Spreading democracy, fight them there so we don't have to fight them here, fighting for peace, bringing freedom, The responsibility to protect act,  and all that  nice sounding propaganda  language is only there to dupe people in supporting  bankers an multinationals wars, and plundering and destruction (and the build it up to destruct it again) of other "countries" mass murdering other people.  The people's go along with enormous debts which the unborn have to pay off, living as slaves.
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