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How many CAPTCHA's are too many CAPTCHA's? (Part 3 of 3) by beanz

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· @beanz · (edited)
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How many CAPTCHA's are too many CAPTCHA's? (Part 3 of 3)
[The problem](https://steemit.com/curation/@beanz/let-s-reawaken-the-debate-on-auto-voting) : Many people who spend time on the platform voting for content that they read and paid attention to, are not making as much curation rewards as people (with the same amount of SP) who set up an autovote bot and get their votes in at the right time without ever reading the content.  In other words people are incentivised to use bots to do their curation for them which is having an impact on user engagement.

The solution : It might not even be possible but [click here](https://steemit.com/curation/@beanz/de-centralised-captcha-system) to read my idea of how it could be implemented.  You might not like it...
### But lets discuss how it could be made as painless as possible.
I want to make it very clear that I am not talking about having a CAPTCHA for every vote.  Personally I would propose it would be possible for a user to come across one once every 6 hours, but even less frequently for most users.  This means that a voting bot could be prevented from further voting at most 4 times daily, and as soon as the person behind the bot manually answers a CAPTCHA that bot could go back to work for at least another 6 hours.  A human on the other hand would more than likely only come across one at most twice daily, since humans don't generally spend all 4 quarters of the day online.

Now lets consider what kind of criteria would an upvote have to have for a CAPTCHA to appear.  We could use the rShares of a post to determine the need to prove if a voter is a human or a bot.  For example, if after you vote on a post there is still less than 1TRS then this kind of vote would never require a CAPTCHA to verify.  But if your vote brought the rShares above that number then you may be required to answer a CAPTCHA ***if*** the user has voted this way 10 times in the past 6 hours.  Ideally, you would be more likely to come across a CAPTCHA the more rShares there is on the post when you vote for it.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/933/851/c8e.jpg
###### [source](http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/933851-with-great-power-comes-great-responsibility)
This would mean that you would be more likely to come across these CAPTCHA's if your vote is large enough to immediately bring the reward for a post above a large amount of rShares.  My reasoning for this is because it is those who have the largest vote who are the most incentivised to use automation to gain the most from their curation.  Furthermore, it is their use of curation that incentivises everybody with a smaller vote to automate their own votes in order to compete.

So bringing a post over 1TRS would require a CAPTCHA under 2 conditions
- if this is the 10th time in the last 6 hours that your vote brought a post above 1TRS
- if you have not proven yourself to be human with a CAPTCHA within the past 6 hours

Similarly, you could meet a CAPTCHA
- after 8 times bringing a post over 11TRS
- after 6 times bringing a post over 21 TRS
- after 5 times bringing a post over 31TRS
- after 4 times bringing a post over 41TRS

I would love to hear your thoughts on this idea.  Once again I don't even know that it would be possible on the blockchain but I do see the incentivisation to autovote as an issue.  The greatest content creators love to have their content genuinely appreciated by people who consume it.  This is why I think people should be encouraged to engage when curating.
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vote details (100)
@darkflame ·
I strongly dislike captcha and it would hinder my Steemit experience. It would discourage me from participating.
👍  
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@inertia ·
What if there's never a CAPTCHA challenge if your voting pattern meets the right criteria?  For instance, why challenge someone who always votes 100% exactly 40 times a day?

I say this because bots will often try to fiddle with the numbers to spread out coverage.  But humans do this as well, so it's not a perfect indicator.

Rare bots that use 100% x 40 are either very poorly written and don't earn the author any money (a self correcting problem), or are very well written and benefit the platform by boosting great content.
👍  
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@beanz · (edited)
That could be possible, but humans who can answer the captcha's would still hold an advantage because the bots would have to scale their votes to keep the rShares below the amount needed to avoid a captcha.  At least with what I'm proposing but there could be other ways to further limit them.  I amn't proposing to limit them completely just looking for ways to help humans compete without having to resort to automation.

It would mostly be minnow bots who could vote and never come across a captcha, but they don't gain anything from curation anyway so there should be no incentive.
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@karenb54 ·
I dont understand anyone voting without reading the  content first.  I think maybe a timer before they vote again enough time to read a post.  I can't get my head around bots..
👍  
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@karenmckersie ·
Because i post and blog most often at work I have 8 hrs to curate and blog on my own and I enjoy it ! I have never used a bot , and dont even know how to get a bot anyways 9r how to set them up it sounds complicated ! Lol ! Plus im asumeing you have to pay for this bot ! Haha ! I would be inclined to get a bot though for when i sleep or on a part time basis . 👍🤔😉
👍  
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@noisy ·
Captcha cannot be implemented on blockchain level, and bots do not need steemit to vote on posts.
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@beanz ·
Please read part 2.  I'm talking about if it could be decentralised through the blockchain
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@noisy ·
I just finished reading it. I really appreciate that you are trying to find a solution for auto-voting problem, but I think CAPTCHA is basically bad idea. Why?

> How many CAPTCHA

One captcha is already to many

IMO we should remove the incentive for bots. Voting should not be paid.
👍  
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@professorx ·
Although I am not 100% sure this will solve the problem or could be implemented on the blockchain (perhaps more on the interface), it is food for thought. Anything to improve curation rewards and curation engagement is a plus in my opinion.
👍  
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@screenname ·
Re: How many CAPTCHA's are too many CAPTCHA's? (Part 3 of 3)
<p>This post has been ranked within the top 50 most undervalued posts in the second half of Jan 12. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $6.58 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.</p> 
<p>See the full rankings and details in <a href="https://steemit.com/curation/@screenname/the-daily-tribune-most-undervalued-posts-of-jan-12---part-ii">The Daily Tribune: Jan 12 - Part II</a>. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in <a href="https://steemit.com/curation/@screenname/introducing-the-daily-tribune-most-undervalued-posts-of-nov-04---part-i">our initial post</a>.</p>
<p>If you are the author and would prefer not to receive these comments, simply reply "Stop" to this comment.</p>
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@stephen-somers · (edited)
I agree that strategic bot upvoting is not a positive thing for Steemit. I have upvoted this post after about 2 minutes and I'm sure I won't get more than .01 reward but a bot account will shower upvotes at 30 mins and take rewards away from the readers. Not a good result. 
My suggestion is to randomise that perfect time to upvote so it makes it harder to game the curation rewards system by using vote bots.
👍  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@beanz ·
Interesting idea.  Anything that could level out the playing field between the bots and the humans would be great.
👍  
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@professorx ·
Never heard this suggested, but it makes sense. I like it.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@thecryptofiend ·
It is simply unrealistic to think people will not use bots.  Life is never that black or white.  

If you want to encourage people to engage manually then you have to give them some incentive to do that.  

Everyone is very busy nowadays so you need to make it worth their while.  

One way to do that is to get people engaging through commenting and the recent changes that the team announced should go some way towards doing that.

I don't see the point in trying to come up with bot blocking methods because no matter what you do someone will come up with a way to get round it which will create another level of inequality.  

Further it may drive people away from the platform if they are time poor.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@beanz ·
>It is simply unrealistic to think people will not use bots.

That's not what this would do, so not what this is about.
>If you want to encourage people to engage manually then you have to give them some incentive to do that.

That's what this is about.
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@thecryptofiend · (edited)
That assumes that people are using bots because of curation rewards.  I would suggest that is a false assumption.

Further why would you be using Captchas if you don't want to get rid of bots?  That makes no sense in the first place.
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@virtualgrowth ·
1 CAPTCHA is too many.  Expressed anti bot ideas may also be anti human.  Understand people see bots and bot voting is a problem.  So how may we better define the (actual) problem and solution?

Perhaps a different payout time or structure that may not be so easily cracked by bots or rather humans that design the bots.  Maybe we can think towards an idea that will better share STEEM with bots and humans to reward both unique voting styles as neither should be discriminated against.
👍  ,
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root_title"How many CAPTCHA's are too many CAPTCHA's? (Part 3 of 3)"
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vote details (2)