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Reflections from a Farm Part 2: Money Flow and Debt by bengy

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· @bengy ·
$24.61
Reflections from a Farm Part 2: Money Flow and Debt
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<center>![Reflections from a Farm Part 2.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/bengy/EqhPHa97itZRfZVkwyjQDumeYDcXp92kwa9b5cVMo19u2Xt7D13Gp9zQygcRcSGAeVb.jpg)</center>

Running a farm seems to take a lot of capital to start up, to invest in equipment, land, crops, livestock... it seems to be an endless array of things that need to be paid for upfront, and then paid off over time. Well, it just seems to be exactly like the regular society but on a much larger scale... and to be honest, that sort of thing just scares the hell out of me. Debt is a useful tool... but I'm still quite averse to it. My wife had to do some pretty hefty convincing for me to even take a zero-interest loan to do some green upgrades... I'm still wondering if here is catch or not, especially in this climate of high inflation. To me, the high inflation along with zero interest just sounds wrong... and I'm wondering if there is a link of the loan to inflation, but if there is, it just isn't that clear or upfront on the website or loan papers. 

I do worry that our family member has taken on a great amount of debt... but on the other hand, they have at least one pretty stable and well-paying job, so they can service the loan. And there is also the collateral of the land which is partially paid off. Still, they have some pretty hefty long-term plans that will need funding, including a new house build and some more equipment that needs to be bought. 

I guess in some ways, it is worth it... they are living a life that they had dreamed of, working on the land, whilst being close enough to a regional town centre to have the mix of worlds. Honestly, the entire thing is not my cup of tea... I can see the appeal, and whilst visiting on holiday, it does seem quite romantic. But ultimately, it is a crazily hard amount of work... with that ever present debt/income flow sword hanging over your head. I'm sure that they have more than enough buffer to get through several bad seasons, and it isn't the only income flow... so, they probably aren't as leveraged as I worry that they are. 

... but the thought is there. A series of unfortunate events could send them into financial ruin. 

And that is pretty much par of the course for many of the Western, democratic societies. Debt is a common enough thing that most people play with it, society expects it, and the entire economic system requires it. Nothing too wrong with that... but financial literacy isn't as widespread as one might hope, and debt... like any good tool, as beneficial sides, as well as a dangerous aspect. Sadly, I do wonder if many people see only the beneficial side... in that they want something, right now... and bugger the consequences of dealing with the debt servicing sometime down the track. A problem for future self... 

I was reading this pretty horrific article recently about some large company in the United States... loaning out to people who weren't really capable of realising (due to a combination of dodgy sales practices and lack of financial literacy) that they were essentially paying the equivalent of triple digit interest... and only being able to service the interest on their loans. Thus creating a ongoing solid revenue stream of the loan company, as the customers would be forever paying off their loan because they wouldn't ever even start eating into the actual loan principal! Ouch... and somehow that was not illegal. Crazily immoral, and hopefully not an aspect of American capitalism that we will ever import (although, the more that we reduce regulation, oversight, and critically enforcement... the closer we get to that...). 

Anyway... debt... I was always brought up in a culture of abhorring debt. Or at least treating it like the dangerous risk instrument that it is. My wife was brought up differently (not terribly so, but with less of an instinctive reflex to the concept!)... I was always immediately paying off the credit card... the instant that I spent money on it! 

Anyway... with all the terrible economic news that seems to be on the horizon (over-leveraged house loans in particular... well, in combination with job losses/recession... but even all the Buy Now Pay Later companies that seem to have infected Australia) , I do wonder if there is going to be a wave of terrible news. Hopefully not, but in some ways... maybe it is necessary, so that we can have a better understanding and proper treatment of debt as a society. Or is it too painful? And as a society we should step in and save everyone... regardless of the moral hazard?


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@aussieninja ·
$0.02
Dude, I literally get 3-4 calls every day from companies trying to give me loans. It's all extremely predatory and basically makes everyone's phone in the US useless (the lack of regulation against Robocalls is causing this issue).

My relationship is very much the same, debt makes me so nervous where my wife had a lot of credit card debt when we met.  Our finances are pretty healthy now, and we don't have arguments at all, but she definitely doesn't feel the same way as I do when it comes to debt.

Honestly, I'm a little nervous for your family member.  Farms are really expensive and are so weather-dependent.  With extreme weather events more likely... some really hot weather or really wet weather could set them back.... but, on the other hand, there will always be demand for agricultural products; wheat, meat, crops, diary, etc.  I really wish them the best of luck, because, well, all of Australia needs farmers to succeed. 
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@bengy ·
$0.41
I start to notice the same increase in scams here in Australia... I didn't have that problem in the Netherlands... I wonder if it is just the ease of using English, or that they see the Anglo drive to "get ahead" combined with rat-race economies as easy to manipulate?

I think that they will be fine even if it fails. The cities start to encroach on the rural areas, and even if they packaged it all off as subdivisions... well, it would be a loss in lifestyle, but they would be afloat. 
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@aussieninja · (edited)
Could be... or the Netherlands have stricter rules about those sorts of businesses...?

Yeah, I've got some friends in Torquay, VIC that had a huge farm and after 20 years easily sold sections to developers.  I'm sure there is a bunch of luck in terms of being where people want to move and maybe re-zoning but owning land seems to usually work out if you can wait long enough. 
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@iniobong3emm ·
Nice one farm investment is one of the most profitable but needs care fulness and prayers. Why I said that is because of the recent flood in Nigeria, most farmers lost money during that time. But you are fine am glad
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@bengy ·
Yes, farms are risky... but they enjoy the work that they put into looking after the land.
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@ryivhnn ·
$0.02
Ooh excitement, good luck to your family members with their farm :D may their crops nad livestock go nuts and may they never sell out to megacorps XD

> A series of unfortunate events could send them into financial ruin.

That's literally anyone.  

And it's even worse when you have one lynchpin (one person making most or all the income, anything happen to them and everyone and everything else is fubar).

Both J and I have a really high debt aversion and hopefully taught the kids likewise (by school of hard knocks, if they whined hard enough we let them borrow money when they were younger, and feel all the pain of having to pay their hard earned pocket money back when all they wanted to do was buy something else).  Big two seem on the right track, just youngest we're worried about.

I think some people need to learn by being badly hurt enough that it actually sticks (because some people are dumb and keep doing literally the exact same thing but thinking that somehow they now know better and are better educated and are astonished when they get the exact same result), and that helps everyone else who is smart enough to learn by other people's mistakes so when it's their turn to make the mistake for other people to learn from it's at least a different one x_x

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@bengy ·
Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that for the kids... getting them to pay back "loans". Currently, my oldest is getting that idea from Cities:Skylines, having borrowed lots to build something and now finding that she has to pay it back... over a long long time!

I read somewhere that a true measure of wealth was how long you could keep going for without any income... if it dropped to zero tomorrow. Pretty rough measure!
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