I recently read [this](http://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/u-s-scientists-turn-north-for-help-making-tomatoes-great-again-and-more-1.3954868/u-s-scientists-call-canada-for-help-with-government-clampdown-1.3954879) article and podcast on how scientists in the U.S. who are facing a severe government clampdown are appealing to Canadian scientists for help, who recently went through something very similar under the Harper administration. Now politics aside whenever you have any centralized organization be it a corporation or government controlling the purse strings for your research then not only does that create a bias towards the interests of that organization within your research but also it means that organization has the power to censor your data. This is true of academics as much as it is true of personal data on the net (ex. posts on facebook). Up to this point there has seemed to be this belief that government scientists are somehow neutral. No they are not. They are just as biased as any other group. And more to the point they are just as vunerable to authoritarian dictators under government as they are within a corporate empire, that means censorship and researching what they're told to research. That means having your funds cut or not provided for at all if you're not researching something that supports the agenda of your boss. And that folks is not objective science. We talk a lot about decentralization and the freedom of information in terms of piracy but we also need to remember that science was often considered heresy throughout history and subsequently censored. And there is nothing so uncomfortable for a politician or a business as scientific facts that conflict openly with their spiel. They also don't tend to like it when scientific data, which is true, but that casts them in a bad light, is leaked to the public, especially when it reveals them to be liable for some damages. So just pirates use decentralization to overcome censorship so too do academics. We can no longer allow scientific data to be centralized and controlled by governments and corporations. Is that not becoming abundantly clear? Is it not clear that governments cannot be trusted to act as neutral parties? Nor can they be trusted to act in the best interests of the people. There is so much distrust of corporations but the simple fact is that whenever you have a centralized power you get the same kind of power dynamic. And so this is why scientific data should be decentralized. Thankfully we have the tools for this and will create more as time goes on. With any luck the [SAFE](https://www.maidsafe.net/) will hit beta this year or next. (Good god I hope it's this year.) But even with that aside we already have blockchain tech, tor and the internet as it is which could be used to develop a way to distribute scientific data to the world and anonymously assign credit and payment for research done. If we can develop something like Steemit why can't we develop a similar platform for distributing and voting on the reputable status of scientific papers? There are also projects like [SciHub](https://scihub.org/) which is already decentralizing scientific data by pirating peer reviewed scientific papers so anyone can read them. That in itself is a problem. If a scientist needs to read hundreds of papers to do a single research project then charging $50 or so per paper is cost prohibitive and again results in censorship and an information bottleneck. Yes scientists deserve to be paid for their research but their papers can't be so costly no one can afford to read them, especially if they're reading a lot of them. So what I'd propose is this: * We stop trusting centralized authorities be they government or corporate when it comes to our data, especially academic data. * We develop a system that allows academics of all sorts to publish their data anonymously while still gaining reputation and financial compensation for it. * That we base the latter on code and not government policy, see point 1, and that that code remain open source and forkable so that others can use and improve it. I'm not going to go into a long plan about how to do all this. That can come with time. I just want to get these basic concepts across. We can't keep turning to centralized authorities for scientific funding and then naively being surprised when they screw us over. Scientific data will get censored just as much as copyright gets censored. It's about maintaining power. Freedom comes when you are self sufficient and can control your own data. It does not come when you have to ask permission from some centralized authority, ever.
author | blindsite |
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I am not agreeing too much with your text. Let me explain why. > No they are not. They are just as biased as any other group. That's a very dangerous generalization. It is not true. Some scientists may be biased towards one direction, some others towards another, and many are actually only relying on facts. You have several groups working on similar topics and there is thus a competition. Competition is healthy. That's how new approaches are built. Now, coming to the point of the scientific publications. First, I would like to push forward the fact that journals are not belonging to any governments. Those are just private companies trying to make as much as money as possible... Universities all around the world are paying yearly fee so that their employees can access the information. For the rest of the world, it is a field dependent statement. Particle physics papers are mostly open access, for instance, as we pay for that. Now let us discuss your proposal (to which I disagree mostly). > If we can develop something like Steemit why can't we develop a similar platform for distributing and voting on the reputable status of scientific papers? Some are already thinking about make scientific result available to everybody. For instance, on the steemit blockhain, have you checked the pevo project? Now, outside steemit, have you heard about the arxiv platform? Taking your proposal, who do you think could vote? Anyone? I don't think this is good. I would feel very uncomfortable to vote for something outside my field. I don't have any expertise to do so. Science must be reviewed by peers. The general audience can comment of course, but does Mr. or Ms. everybody have any knowledge to assess the quality of a scientific paper? > We develop a system that allows academics of all sorts to publish their data anonymously while still gaining reputation and financial compensation for it. Why being anonymous? This makes no sense to me. If you are in academia, you want your peers to know what you are working on. Also, scientists are not looking for money for themselves. That is a wrong assumption from the start. They are however looking for funding to hire other people to help them on their research. > Scientific data will get censored just as much as copyright gets censored This is again a very dangerous generalization. Open access data exists. Moreover, while I agree that data should be made available to the public after sometime, this should not be done blindly. Scientists may want to use their data and analyse it themselves first. They after all built the experiments and get this by their work. Then, after some time, they should however release the data (for reproducibility, etc...).
author | lemouth |
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Okay let's go through this point by point. "That's a very dangerous generalization. It is not true. Some scientists may be biased towards one direction, some others towards another, and many are actually only relying on facts. You have several groups working on similar topics and there is thus a competition. Competition is healthy. That's how new approaches are built." Yes scientists may or may not have one bias or another. But I think you're mistaken when assuming there will be many scientists equally working in competition. Scientists require funding to do their research. Facts don't matter when your job, your paycheque and your research grants depend on you producing a particular set of facts for your boss, be that a government or corporate organization. If you provide the facts they want you get paid more. If you don't then you lose your research grant and get fired, or the results of your research get surpressed and aren't allowed to be published. "First, I would like to push forward the fact that journals are not belonging to any governments. Those are just private companies trying to make as much as money as possible... Universities all around the world are paying yearly fee so that their employees can access the information. For the rest of the world, it is a field dependent statement. Particle physics papers are mostly open access, for instance, as we pay for that." Cool but what about the people who want to read those journals and scientific papers who aren't in those particular universities? What if you just want to do some research or are just curious? Science should be something everyone can practice not just academic elites in their ivory towers. You nailed it on the head there, yes scientific journals are run by publishing houses that just want to make money and that's the problem which inhibits real decentralized science. "Some are already thinking about make scientific result available to everybody. For instance, on the steemit blockhain, have you checked the pevo project? Now, outside steemit, have you heard about the arxiv platform?" No actually I haven't heard of those projects and will have to look into them thank you. "Taking your proposal, who do you think could vote? Anyone? I don't think this is good. I would feel very uncomfortable to vote for something outside my field. I don't have any expertise to do so. Science must be reviewed by peers. The general audience can comment of course, but does Mr. or Ms. everybody have any knowledge to assess the quality of a scientific paper?" Why would you feel uncomfortable voting on someone outside our field? We make recommendations and give reputation to those outside our field of expertise all the time. You don't need to be an expert mechanic to see if a professional fixed your car correctly. If you're wanting to have corrective criticism on your craft that's one thing but I would put forward that those with "degrees" aren't the only ones who can think a) logically b) critically think and use the scientific method and c) have insight onto your paper. I've read through scientific papers. While the vocabulary is a bit advanced in places and they can get a bit tedious they're not impossible to understand even for Joe Everyman, he'd just need wikipedia to help with the vocabulary. And if people are reading through scientific papers and studying science isn't that how one develops an education and expertise in the first place? By studying? "Why being anonymous? This makes no sense to me. If you are in academia, you want your peers to know what you are working on. Also, scientists are not looking for money for themselves. That is a wrong assumption from the start. They are however looking for funding to hire other people to help them on their research." Why be anonymous? Well to prevent situations like what's going on in U.S. right now or what happened in Canada just a few years ago under Harper. Governments making it illegal for scientists to publish their data that didn't meet with government approval. And/or governments making it illegal for scientists to criticize government policies, especially environmental policies. Why are the scientists in the U.S. that work for government taking their names off the papers they want published? Because if they don't the papers can't be published. That's why. And it's more important to the scientists to get the data out there than it is to have their name on the research paper and receive reputation. That's also why there are alt scientific twitter accounts being made and other such things so even if the scientists can't officially release the data and get paid and acknowledged at least they can release the data. It doesn't matter if scientists want the money for themselves or to further their research. That's irrelevant. The fact is they need money to continue their research. And that dependency on money means that if they produce the wrong facts from their research they can get their funding cut. "This is again a very dangerous generalization. Open access data exists. Moreover, while I agree that data should be made available to the public after sometime, this should not be done blindly. Scientists may want to use their data and analyse it themselves first. They after all built the experiments and get this by their work. Then, after some time, they should however release the data (for reproducibility, etc...)." And why can't those scientists use their data while other people also use their data? It's not like they can't keep a copy of it. As for analysis more eyes make for better analysis than just two. The more people analyzing the data the faster it happens. The only reason you'd want to keep your data safe is to produce a product and then the question needs to be asked: What's in the product and how is it made? All in all I think you're far too trusting of institutions.
author | blindsite |
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> Yes scientists may or may not have one bias or another. But I think you're mistaken when assuming there will be many scientists equally working in competition. Scientists require funding to do their research. Facts don't matter when your job, your paycheque and your research grants depend on you producing a particular set of facts for your boss, be that a government or corporate organization. If you provide the facts they want you get paid more. If you don't then you lose your research grant and get fired, or the results of your research get surpressed and aren't allowed to be published. No I am not mistaken. I know a lot of examples. Competition is good. This allows you to get better products, better results, better tools, etc. Okay we need to rely on peer-reviewing by others to get our grants. Fine. But that's the sam thing for everybody and we should be objective. Many people are objective. Probably not everybody, but many are. Believe me. > Cool but what about the people who want to read those journals and scientific papers who aren't in those particular universities? What if you just want to do some research or are just curious? Science should be something everyone can practice not just academic elites in their ivory towers. You nailed it on the head there, yes scientific journals are run by publishing houses that just want to make money and that's the problem which inhibits real decentralized science. People are not ready to get rid of journals. So having something like the SCOAP3 project is good in the meantime. At some point, we may arrive towards a new solution. But this solution has to be built step by step. You cannot change a system from one day to another. > Why would you feel uncomfortable voting on someone outside our field? We make recommendations and give reputation to those outside our field of expertise all the time. You don't need to be an expert mechanic to see if a professional fixed your car correctly. If you're wanting to have corrective criticism on your craft that's one thing but I would put forward that those with "degrees" aren't the only ones who can think a) logically b) critically think and use the scientific method and c) have insight onto your paper. I've read through scientific papers. While the vocabulary is a bit advanced in places and they can get a bit tedious they're not impossible to understand even for Joe Everyman, he'd just need wikipedia to help with the vocabulary. And if people are reading through scientific papers and studying science isn't that how one develops an education and expertise in the first place? By studying? Because not everyone can understand everything. To arrive where scientists are, you need long studies, a lot of work. As I said, I will not dare voting a chemistry work or a biology work as I have no expertise in these domain. I would not be able to distinguish state-of-the-art high-quality research from crackpotting. Do you really think wikipedia is a reliable source? Wikipedia is sometimes wrong itself. It is not considered as a standard textbook by the scientific community, and for a good reason. Other example. I can give you a link to the last article published in string theory. Then, it will be up to you to demonstrate me that you have fully understood everything that is in the work, that all the equations will be correct, that the impact of the work will be major, etc... > Why be anonymous? Well to prevent situations like what's going on in U.S. right now or what happened in Canada just a few years ago under Harper. Governments making it illegal for scientists to publish their data that didn't meet with government approval. And/or governments making it illegal for scientists to criticize government policies, especially environmental policies. Why are the scientists in the U.S. that work for government taking their names off the papers they want published? Because if they don't the papers can't be published. That's why. And it's more important to the scientists to get the data out there than it is to have their name on the research paper and receive reputation. That's also why there are alt scientific twitter accounts being made and other such things so even if the scientists can't officially release the data and get paid and acknowledged at least they can release the data. You are mixing things. Government approval should not be there in the first place. Period. Being anonymous is not the right solution. It may be a temporary solution, but it is not a solution. Government should leave scientists free to chose what they are working on, how they are working on this, and how they will communicate on this. > It doesn't matter if scientists want the money for themselves or to further their research. That's irrelevant. The fact is they need money to continue their research. And that dependency on money means that if they produce the wrong facts from their research they can get their funding cut. Publications are not the only item to get funding. Both the PI and the project matter. > And why can't those scientists use their data while other people also use their data? It's not like they can't keep a copy of it. As for analysis more eyes make for better analysis than just two. The more people analyzing the data the faster it happens. The only reason you'd want to keep your data safe is to produce a product and then the question needs to be asked: What's in the product and how is it made? If I would built a great apparatus based on some good ideas, I would like to be the first one to use it and show the results. Me and my collaborators of course. We would have invested time and money in it. Therefore, that's our rewards. The rest of the world could use it, use our data, use out analyses afterwards, and cite us. That's how we can get recognized by our peers (which is what really matter). > All in all I think you're far too trusting of institutions. What? I don't understand this...
author | lemouth |
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