create account

What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway? by burnin

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @burnin · (edited)
$5.48
What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?
# What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?

In the middle of the [0.14RC patch notes](https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/announcing-steem-0-14-0-release-candidate), one change caught my eye:  
> Target Votes of 5 per Day instead of 40

Since I've been [studying and documenting this logic recently](https://steemit.com/steemit/@burnin/reward-shares-understanding-how-your-votes-affect-a-post), I decided to go back to the source and check what was changed.

Looking back in my previous post, I wrote that:

> Each vote decreases this value (exactly by how much in a bit), and it would regenerate from zero to full over the course of five days. In practice, you recover 20% voting power in one day or 0.833% in an hour.

And:

> Now we have all the information to calculate the Reward Shares for our vote, like this:
> `Used Power = ((((Voting Power * Voting Percent) / 10000)) / 200) + 1`
> First, it determines how much of your VP you are spending on this vote. I'm not sure how the scaling factor 200 was chosen, but ultimately it's a linear correlation between them.

The change was to the factor of how much voting power is spent on each vote, while the voting regeneration speed is untouched.

The `(Voting Power * Voting Percent) / 10000)` factor is unchanged, so I'll call it `Effective Voting Power`. The amount of voting power used in a vote went from:

`Used Power = (Effective Voting Power / 200) + 1`

to 

`Used Power = (Effective Voting Power + 20 - 1) / 20`

where the scaling factor was calculated to represent 1/4 of how much Voting Power would be regenerated in a day, which is 20.

Comparing the Power Spent per vote, before (red) and  after (blue):

<center>![](http://i.imgur.com/qArAPAi.png)</center>

An interesting visualization is how your voting power gets spend after a certain amount of votes. Again, before (red) and after (blue):

<center>![](http://i.imgur.com/mUYGhEH.png)</center>

Some observations: before this change, your voting power would drop to 79.81% when casting 44 votes, now it would drop to 81.41% after 4 votes, as expected. In the new model, it would drop below 1% after 86 votes, when it took 703 votes beforehand.

In both cases, it still regenerates 20% after a day and fully after five.

I'm wondering, though, can't bots just cast votes at a reduced weight to spend less voting power to mimic old behavior? Here's a comparison when casting votes at 12% at the new model:

<center>![](http://i.imgur.com/2qyj1iH.png)</center>

In fact, at 10%, both lines overlap almost exactly. Maybe I'm missing something, but in effect that change seems to imply that new votes are the equivalent of voting ten times in a post in the previous model (and you can override it selecting the vote weight, if you can).

***

I think it's a bit too early to understand the impact of this change and whether it's positive or negative, or even if it's effective. Still, I think these kind of changes should be openly discussed more openly in the community before being implemented.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
properties (23)
authorburnin
permlinkwhat-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem","steemit",""],"image":["http://i.imgur.com/qArAPAi.png","http://i.imgur.com/mUYGhEH.png","http://i.imgur.com/2qyj1iH.png"],"links":["https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/announcing-steem-0-14-0-release-candidate","https://steemit.com/steemit/@burnin/reward-shares-understanding-how-your-votes-affect-a-post"]}
created2016-09-02 21:47:00
last_update2016-09-02 21:47:39
depth0
children12
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value4.258 HBD
curator_payout_value1.224 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length3,025
author_reputation15,792,464,317,401
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,104,009
net_rshares5,697,305,277,944
author_curate_reward""
vote details (29)
@biophil ·
By the way, I found an error in your post: where you say
> `Used Power = (Effective Voting Power + 20 - 1) / 20`

it should be
`Used Power = (Effective Voting Power + 25 - 1) / 25`.
Because 
`dgpo.vote_regeneration_per_day = 5;` and 
`#define STEEMIT_VOTE_REGENERATION_SECONDS       (5*60*60*24)`.

5 times 5 is 25. :)
👍  ,
properties (23)
authorbiophil
permlinkre-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160904t044301325z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"]}
created2016-09-04 04:43:00
last_update2016-09-04 04:43:00
depth1
children1
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length318
author_reputation45,223,914,794,461
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,119,225
net_rshares5,034,048,572
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@burnin ·
Ouch! Correct. Not sure why I thought it was 4. 

The logic still stands, just slightly adjusted. ;)
👍  
properties (23)
authorburnin
permlinkre-biophil-re-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160904t063654935z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"]}
created2016-09-04 06:36:54
last_update2016-09-04 06:36:54
depth2
children0
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length100
author_reputation15,792,464,317,401
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,119,871
net_rshares4,507,745,760
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@cian.dafe · (edited)
Thankyou for this analysis @burnin.
Having read through your analysis, would I be correct in saying that this change has little impact in real terms because larger accounts ( also known as whale accounts ) can simply reduce there voting power to 12% of its previous weight and continue to have almost the same effect on the voting system as they did in the past ? And if so do you think that whales voting with a reduced voting power of 12% (and I assume therefore whale voting will occur on more posts) will mean that more of the new or previously unnoticed steem posts will benefit from this change ?
👍  ,
properties (23)
authorcian.dafe
permlinkre-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160902t221238700z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"],"users":["burnin"]}
created2016-09-02 22:13:03
last_update2016-09-02 22:14:27
depth1
children4
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length602
author_reputation76,952,589,262
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,104,273
net_rshares44,735,604,976
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@burnin ·
Whales already vote with a reduced weight so that shouldn't  change much. Maybe everyone will start voting at 10% and all will be the same.

More likely less votes will be cast and rewards will be more concentrated. Need to think more about it.
properties (22)
authorburnin
permlinkre-ciandafe-re-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160902t222514547z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"]}
created2016-09-02 22:25:15
last_update2016-09-02 22:25:15
depth2
children3
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length244
author_reputation15,792,464,317,401
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,104,443
net_rshares0
@biophil ·
I think most likely people won't understand the change and be frightened from voting. But what you say at the end *should* be true: it shouldn't make a difference whether you vote a few times at full power or many times at reduced power. Actually, voting many times at full power should be exactly the same as voting many times at reduced power.

The other thing to remember about the change is that while you use up more power on each vote, your vote is also much more powerful.
👍  
properties (23)
authorbiophil
permlinkre-burnin-re-ciandafe-re-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160904t011118378z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"]}
created2016-09-04 01:11:21
last_update2016-09-04 01:11:21
depth3
children0
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length479
author_reputation45,223,914,794,461
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,117,779
net_rshares4,790,703,922
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@teamsteem ·
I do agree people will cast less votes but I'm not sure rewards will be more concentrated. People most probably will still try to get the most reward from their curation and this isn't done with casting vote on the most votes posts.
👍  
properties (23)
authorteamsteem
permlinkre-burnin-re-ciandafe-re-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160902t225437157z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"]}
created2016-09-02 22:54:36
last_update2016-09-02 22:54:36
depth3
children1
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length232
author_reputation284,804,541,406,803
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,104,789
net_rshares4,654,012,800
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@dan-atstarlite ·
Does this mean that single votes will be worth more? By that I mean... if a user's 100% vote is worth $0.10 now.. will it be worth $1.00 after the fork?
👍  , ,
properties (23)
authordan-atstarlite
permlinkre-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160902t224930682z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"]}
created2016-09-02 22:49:27
last_update2016-09-02 22:49:27
depth1
children4
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length152
author_reputation45,283,606,119,504
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,104,727
net_rshares47,440,724,900
author_curate_reward""
vote details (3)
@burnin ·
In a vacuum, yes, it's roughly like you are casting 10 votes in a row. But since  the amount of rewards generated per day is the same, it will tend to be more dilluted so maybe it's back to a lower value.

In truth I'm not sure  - it depends on how the voting patterns change and I'd need to run a simulation on it.
👍  
properties (23)
authorburnin
permlinkre-dan-atstarlite-re-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160902t232630534z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"]}
created2016-09-02 23:26:30
last_update2016-09-02 23:26:30
depth2
children3
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length315
author_reputation15,792,464,317,401
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,105,104
net_rshares32,043,028,969
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@brendio ·
The way I see it is that is would give the ability of someone to scale their normal votes to 10% to achieve the same effect under the new rules, but be able to selectivley powervote at 100% on stuff they really like.

I know others have posited on the cognitive overhead of the new system and whether this functionality is worth the extra thinking required to use it effectively and also wonder at the effect of this change.
👍  ,
properties (23)
authorbrendio
permlinkre-burnin-re-dan-atstarlite-re-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160904t142045306z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"]}
created2016-09-04 14:20:45
last_update2016-09-04 14:20:45
depth3
children0
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length424
author_reputation2,247,042,714,470
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,122,833
net_rshares10,122,003,519
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@jazzka ·
I've read most of the comments in the original [announcement post](https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/announcing-steem-0-14-0-release-candidate) and think there are a lot of misconceptions. It's nice to read a post where somebody tries to understand what's really going on, so thank you for this. 

I think one really important point not being discussed is the question of "how many votes does an average user cast per day?". Let's face it: a lot of users, probably most, don't understand the workings of the platform on a deep level, and just go with "what's easiest". Nothing wrong with that. I would also hazard a guess that on a statistical level, way too many people are close to 100% of the voting power most of the time. If this change lowers that number (and I think it probably will), the balance of power between bots and normal users is automatically shifted towards humans, like most users probably would like it to be.

For the minority reading this and the original post, not much is changed really, as you can just have things as they were by using the slider. Having said that, it would be nice to have a default setting for the upvote power, as fiddling around with the slider is extra work...
👍  
properties (23)
authorjazzka
permlinkre-burnin-re-dan-atstarlite-re-burnin-what-is-the-target-votes-5-per-day-change-anyway-20160905t051235026z
categorysteem
json_metadata{"tags":["steem"],"links":["https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/announcing-steem-0-14-0-release-candidate"]}
created2016-09-05 05:12:36
last_update2016-09-05 05:12:36
depth3
children1
last_payout2016-10-03 23:05:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,214
author_reputation223,278,762,484
root_title"What is the Target Votes 5 per Day change, anyway?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id1,130,351
net_rshares4,954,973,426
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)