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If protesting were crowd sourcing... how many people would still protest? by dwinblood

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· @dwinblood ·
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If protesting were crowd sourcing... how many people would still protest?
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/OzVdQJh.jpg"/>
I wrote about <a href="https://steemit.com/immigration/@dwinblood/have-you-noticed-the-dominant-voices-in-media-against-any-immigration-bans">immigration</a> a few minutes ago, in a half way serious, but also satirical way.    This post is shorter.    It is essentially a very simple concept.    I had a lot of sitting on the toilet revelations tonight...  (*chuckle*)

What if we approached protests like crowd sourcing?   What if people protesting were acting like kickstarter and pledging their support to whatever the goal of their protest was?

What if they had to pay for what they want to happen?    It would be on them and they would not be forcing other people to pay for things they disagree with.    Purely voluntary...

**I wonder how many people would protest?**

I wonder how many of these issues they protest would be as important to them if they suddenly had to pay for the outcome?

You think we should have free education for all for example...    There is no free.   It is paid for somehow, there are still salaries, materials, labs, facilities, electricity, etc.    There is no magical FREE contrary to what some politicians might delude people into believing.

Someone pays for it...

The government is only good at a couple of things.   They are good at spending your money worse than you yourself would likely spend it.   They'll pay for a lot of middle men, and people sitting at desks (*sometimes watching porn*) with a portion of your money.    Eventually some of the money you provided might actually make it to the intended target.   It is definitely going to be substantially less than if you just paid for the things you needed.

You see the government doesn't actually produce anything but rules that people must follow.   They then enforce those rules.   Often those rules require people to act a certain way even if they are harming no one, or no thing.    You still must do it.

Force ultimately is the issue...

Protestors feel justified in their actions.    Let them feel justified all they want as long as they can't force other people to act a certain way.

If they actually had to pay for it themselves like crowd sourcing though I suspect a great deal of the things people protest would suddenly be very silent.

<h3>Have fun with that deep thought from the toilet seat...</h3>
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vote details (86)
@ardina ·
thanks
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@blindsite ·
A couple holes in your logic here.  When you protest there is no way the organizers of the protest can be responsible for everyone that shows up.    It's more like "I show up expressing a view and other people who agree or have similar views come hang out with me."  But ultimately the first protestor doesn't control the second or the 50th or the 100th.  

Second people protest for a lot of reasons.   Sure your idea might work if it was some socialist government program or whatever but what if the protest was against censorship??   What if the protest was an anti war rally?  What if it was for medical freedoms like the right to grow and freely use Marijuana or simply opt for one's preferred medical treatment?  Essentially what if you're demanding the government NOT do something as opposed to spending more money on some kind of program?   

A third problem with your logic is what happens when the government or some other third party deliberately hires provocateur to be disruptive and cause damage during an otherwise peaceful protest?   Even if the argument could be made protestor are all somehow affiliated and responsible for their collective actions blaming th em for hired bad actors is like blaming someone throwing a house party for party crashers.
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vote details (1)
@dwinblood ·
If the result of your protest actually reduces government spending great.  If they still have taxes, perhaps everyone can benefit from that.

>When you protest there is no way the organizers of the protest can be responsible for everyone that shows up.

I didn't say they would be.   Yet if there was a cost involved in the protest more people showing up and agreeing to crowd source the initiative would reduce the burden on people.

The gist of the idea is this... PROTESTORS should never have the right to force other people to pay for something against their will.

Though the protestors could be smart and say these services are only available to supporters.   Great, go for it.   If I really want it I'll back it.

That way for those protestors who still think the government is actually good and wise at using their money they can get the government to do that.   Those of us that think the government is about the last entity you want spending your money will have our money to spend it ourselves.

You want the government to pay for your healthcare?   Great.   I don't.   I just want the right to pay someone an amount that that person and I agree to for services rendered.   If he agrees to less great, if I pay more, then that's my problem to try to solve.   I don't expect the government to do it for me by stealing more money from my fellow citizens.

If you agree to your activities then that is voluntary.  It certainly cannot be considered theft at that point.  :)

>What if it was for medical freedoms like the right to grow and freely use Marijuana or simply opt for one's preferred medical treatment? Essentially what if you're demanding the government NOT do something as opposed to spending more money on some kind of program?

I think such protests might actually become more common, as they wouldn't likely involve new costs, and would actually reduce them.  :)

>A third problem with your logic is what happens when the government or some other third party deliberately hires provocateur to be disruptive and cause damage during an otherwise peaceful protest?

I didn't discuss that.  Sure it will happen.  It happens now.  I didn't write some immense thesis designed to solve all problems with protests.   I wrote a simple post based upon an epiphany I had while sitting on the toilet.  :)

You can poke holes on any idea.   You can throw WHAT IFs at anything.   I wouldn't spend one page to write the ultimate solution to everything.   I would use it to make people think about new ideas though.

Even if they are only new to me and mysterious toilet wisdom.
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@blindsite ·
"'I didn't say they would be. Yet if there was a cost involved in the protest more people showing up and agreeing to crowd source the initiative would reduce the burden on people.

The gist of the idea is this... PROTESTORS should never have the right to force other people to pay for something against their will."

This is kind of ass backwards to me.   The protest is in response to government tyranny.   The government then responds with coercion and then has the gall to make protestors pay for it?   What do the protestors have to do rise up in civil war?   Bring guns and shoot cops?    Bring tanks?   What does it take to make the government NOT use coercion and respect free speech?

I see your point about protesting for tax paid programs but the protestors aren't asking to be harressed, censored, abused or even killed by cops so why should they be forced to pay for it?    Yet some would argue they are responsible for such costs because they are challenging the state.   

"The gist of the idea is this... PROTESTORS should never have the right to force other people to pay for something against their will."

Why not?   Isn't that what democracy is about?   Rule of the majority and all?    Granted I don't really believe in democracy or any government process for that matter but if one is going to argue for the democratic process then protesting seems to be implicit.     Frankly I think protesting is completely useless because you're essentially creating a very noisy appeal to authority rather than asserting your own power and authority.    

"Though the protestors could be smart and say these services are only available to supporters. Great, go for it. If I really want it I'll back it.

That way for those protestors who still think the government is actually good and wise at using their money they can get the government to do that. Those of us that think the government is about the last entity you want spending your money will have our money to spend it ourselves."

But unfortunately this isn't a matter of being smart or not.   This is a philosophical difference in values.    You've got one camp that values people's welfare over the potential harm caused by using coercion.   (In fact you'd have those who would be outright antipathic and hostile to those who didn't want to help their fellow man.)  And then you have those who value freedom of choice over supporting everyone equally.    Equality of treatment vs equality of choice essentially.    Wanting everyone to be treated the same is a feature not a bug.    That's why there is so much pushback against things like private healthcare.   Because some people simply can't afford to pay the bills and end up dying, especially with the outrageous pharmasutical costs in the Canada and the U.S.   

Frankly I agree with you.    Medicine and other social safety nets should be crowdfunded.    This not only grants  everyone greater financial freedom but also allows greater health freedom as well.   However something needs to be done about the exorbidant cost of medicine and other such costs.   Along with financial choice also needs to be increasing support for self sufficiency and decentralization.    It won't do to replace a state empire with a corporate one.   

"I think such protests might actually become more common, as they wouldn't likely involve new costs, and would actually reduce them. :)"

That depends on who is benefiting from the operation.    Take the #NoDAPL protests against the oil pipelines crossing over native lands and putting their water at risk.    The water protectors were essentially saying "STOP!  Halt the project!   We don't want your oil coming through our lands and polluting our water."   But to do so would have cost the government and oil companies money.    It would have saved environmental costs and saved costs for the people but would have cost the elites money.       

Sure you had an epiphany while sitting on the toilet but paying for protests seems mad.    Crowdfunding a real solution seems a better idea than protesting in the first place.
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vote details (1)
@iloveupvotes · (edited)
Sadly it seems protesting is no longer protesting, but rioting. And without George Soros around, a lot of people will be out of a rioting job. And if protesting was being done the right way to voice instead of banging and hopping on cop cars like animals setting things on fire, it's a pretty cheap process to voice an opinion. Someone should do a post showing the difference in protesting and rioting because I think a lot taking to the streets are either over payed, or have no real clue how to or what real protesting is. Just my thoughts <3 Still, epic post! :)
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vote details (1)
@lennstar ·
That Soros guy must be the greatest genius of our times. Financing millions of people without a trace. Making them mindless sheeps without brain. Holding the strings to the powerful in his nimble fingers. 
Why does he still lose?

Come on, if Soros was half that you guys say about him he would be Dictator if the Untied States since a decade and you would not get Dictator Trump now.
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@iloveupvotes · (edited)
1.) He is over 90 Years old. 
2.)  He is not american.
3.) Doesn't Cost a penny to lie and hide truth. History proves that.
4.) Without a trace? With people forwardly admitting it...
5.) I guess buses pay and gas themselves.
6.) He served beside Hitler In ww2. No one would even vote for him.
7.) ALL politicians and leaders are dictators since JFK, Trump no different.
8.) He loses because he is a loser, It's what losers do. He is 1 man Vs. Mass population.
Good luck to anyone winning that.
9.) He has been financing millions since after ww2 and USA is result in current day.
10.) Mindless sheep make themselves, they had/have no brain themselves. One
can only control THEMSELVES, not another.
11.) Brainwashed sheep, is in 2017 openly known as MK Ultra. And, a follower instead
of a leader. aka programming. Even parents do it.
12.) When people realize they need no "Parent" leader to guide them,  protests
will be void and useless costing no time or energy to win or be heard.

Hope it helps!
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