 <p><strong>TL;DR:</strong> If a mechanic charges you to fix your car and doesn't, they’re responsible. But in Hive, if a service says it'll swap your token and then can’t, who cops the blame? After the recent Denial of Service (DoS) attack, who <em>should</em> be liable when things go belly up?</p> <hr> <h2>The Aussie Take on Blockchain Accountability</h2> <p>Mate, in the real world, if you pay someone to do a job and they botch it, they’ve gotta make it right. Whether it’s a tradie fixing your leaky tap, a mechanic replacing your brakes, or an online store sending your order, there’s an <strong>unspoken (and sometimes legal) rule</strong>: <em>do what you said you’d do, or make up for it.</em></p> <p>But in Hive, and crypto in general, the rules are fuzzier. <strong>What happens when a Hive service promises something—like swapping a token—but fails to deliver?</strong> Are they responsible? Should they cough up a refund? And when things go pear-shaped due to <strong>attacks like the recent DoS incident</strong>, who’s to blame?</p> <p>Let's unpack this.</p> <hr> <h2>When a Service Takes Your Money (or Tokens), Are They Responsible?</h2> <p>If you pay a mechanic to fix your car, but it’s still clunking down the road, you’d expect them to <strong>either fix it properly or give you your money back</strong>. That’s just how things work in a fair deal.</p> <p>But crypto doesn’t have <strong>consumer protection laws</strong> like traditional businesses. No Fair Trading, no ACCC breathing down dodgy operators’ necks. Instead, it relies on:</p> <ul> <li><strong>Code and smart contracts</strong> (which are meant to remove the need for trust)</li> <li><strong>Reputation</strong> (because if a service gets a bad name, people stop using it)</li> <li><strong>Community-driven accountability</strong> (people calling out bad actors)</li> </ul> <p>But here’s the kicker: <strong>most Hive services aren’t purely on-chain.</strong> They operate outside the blockchain layer, which means their obligations become a bit more like real-world businesses.</p> <p>Take <strong>token swap services</strong>. If a bridge says, “Send us HBD, and we’ll give you BTC,” but they fail to deliver, <strong>that’s not just bad luck—that’s dodgy business.</strong></p> <p>The big question is: <strong>should they be held to the same standard as a regular business?</strong></p> <hr> <h2>Dodgy Service vs. Unlucky Break: Where’s the Line?</h2> <p>Not all failures are the same. Let’s break it down:</p> <h3>1. When a Service is Just Straight-Up Negligent</h3> <p>This is when a Hive service:</p> <ul> <li>✅ Promises a transaction (swap, transfer, payout)</li> <li>✅ Takes your tokens</li> <li>❌ Fails to deliver</li> <li>❌ Doesn’t refund you</li> </ul> <p>That’s like a mechanic charging for new brakes but never installing them. Morally, they’re <strong>on the hook</strong>.</p> <h3>2. When a Service is Hit by Something Beyond Their Control</h3> <p>What if the reason they failed was out of their hands? For example, the <strong>Denial of Service (DoS) attack</strong> that recently smacked Hive hard.</p> <p>If a token bridge <strong>couldn’t process transactions because the blockchain itself was struggling</strong>, is that their fault? Well, not entirely.</p> <p>But here’s what <em>should</em> happen:</p> <ul> <li>✔ <strong>They communicate what’s happening</strong> (“Hey, we’re having issues—hang tight”)</li> <li>✔ <strong>They pause transactions</strong> instead of leaving people in limbo</li> <li>✔ <strong>They work to refund or resolve</strong> where possible</li> </ul> <p>If they don’t? That’s <strong>negligence</strong>, even if they weren’t the cause of the problem.</p> <hr> <h2>Who’s Responsible in a DoS Attack?</h2> <p>The recent <strong>DoS attack</strong> left plenty of people wondering who should cop the blame when services go down. Let’s look at the key players:</p> <h3>Hive Witnesses & Devs</h3> <p>Hive itself isn’t a company—it’s a <strong>decentralised blockchain</strong>. But its core devs and witnesses <strong>do have a moral duty</strong> to:</p> <ul> <li>🔹 Keep the network stable</li> <li>🔹 Improve security</li> <li>🔹 Communicate openly when issues arise</li> </ul> <p>They’re not personally liable, but <strong>if they ignored security threats</strong>, that’d be on them.</p> <h3>Service Providers</h3> <p>A Hive service (e.g., a token bridge or exchange) might not be able to <strong>prevent</strong> a DoS attack, but they <strong>are</strong> responsible for:</p> <ul> <li>⚡ <strong>Making their systems resilient</strong> (DDoS protection, redundancy)</li> <li>⚡ <strong>Warning users if there are issues</strong></li> <li>⚡ <strong>Offering refunds or compensation where reasonable</strong></li> </ul> <p>If a service <strong>just disappears or refuses to help</strong>, then yeah, <strong>they’re on the hook.</strong></p> <h3>Users (Yep, That’s Us)</h3> <p>In the crypto world, <strong>there’s no safety net</strong>. That means:</p> <ul> <li>🔹 We need to <strong>research services before trusting them</strong></li> <li>🔹 We should <strong>expect some level of risk</strong> in decentralised systems</li> <li>🔹 If we keep using dodgy services, <strong>we’re enabling bad behaviour</strong></li> </ul> <p>That doesn’t mean we should just “accept” losses—it means <strong>we need to hold services accountable</strong>.</p> <hr> <h2>The Moral Bottom Line</h2> <h3>When should Hive businesses be held responsible?</h3> <ul> <li>✅ If they <strong>promised</strong> a service and <strong>failed to deliver</strong></li> <li>✅ If they <strong>knew a failure was possible</strong> and did not warn users</li> <li>✅ If they <strong>benefited financially</strong> from a failed service without rectifying losses</li> </ul> <h3>When is failure understandable?</h3> <ul> <li>❌ If an <strong>external attack</strong> disrupted operations unexpectedly</li> <li>❌ If <strong>users ignored risks</strong> that were clearly disclosed</li> <li>❌ If a service <strong>made best efforts</strong> to fix the issue but was hindered by blockchain-level failures</li> </ul> <hr> <h2>Final Thought: Trust Is Earned, Not Given</h2> <p>The moral standard in Hive should be no different from the real world. If a business takes money (or tokens) and fails to deliver, <strong>it is on the hook</strong>—whether legally enforceable
author | failingforwards |
---|---|
permlink | who-s-on-the-hook |
category | hive-167922 |
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created | 2025-02-05 01:33:03 |
last_update | 2025-02-05 01:33:03 |
depth | 0 |
children | 4 |
last_payout | 2025-02-12 01:33:03 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.300 HBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.296 HBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
promoted | 0.000 HBD |
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author_reputation | 43,672,936,407,659 |
root_title | "Who’s on the Hook When Hive Promises Are Broken" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 HBD |
percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 140,562,870 |
net_rshares | 1,444,158,166,114 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
teamaustralia | 0 | 19,973,920,275 | 45% | ||
isnochys | 0 | 12,069,648,124 | 5% | ||
tobetada | 0 | 534,394,195,797 | 20% | ||
minnowspower | 0 | 197,558,025 | 30% | ||
dudeontheweb | 0 | 120,905,118,877 | 100% | ||
microbot | 0 | 3,260,715,363 | 59.51% | ||
asimo | 0 | 2,788,268,247 | 30% | ||
onepercentbetter | 0 | 16,207,811,630 | 10% | ||
yintercept | 0 | 207,650,052,013 | 100% | ||
sbi7 | 0 | 64,451,129,125 | 10.52% | ||
luhari | 0 | 20,072,451,752 | 100% | ||
grand.strategy | 0 | 3,259,614,871 | 66.78% | ||
solairitas | 0 | 52,469,926,762 | 10% | ||
anaclark | 0 | 4,475,076,299 | 35% | ||
ali-h | 0 | 465,657,530 | 30% | ||
trendovoter | 0 | 329,892,168 | 30% | ||
sbi-tokens | 0 | 941,068,266 | 1.08% | ||
trendobounty | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
gloriaolar | 0 | 6,449,230,327 | 6% | ||
solairibot | 0 | 8,509,817,549 | 10% | ||
hiveupme | 0 | 341,997,003,894 | 30% | ||
hivecurator | 0 | 671,581,046 | 30% | ||
coretoken | 0 | 101,854,245 | 30% | ||
vaulttoken | 0 | 620,532,335 | 30% | ||
swap.vault | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
tan.dev | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
wine-token | 0 | 670,098,879 | 30% | ||
tan.reg | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
thesimguru | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
tan.stake | 0 | 208,196,854 | 30% | ||
wine.bot | 0 | 3,412,128,884 | 30% | ||
tan.extra | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
vihan | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
winebank | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
simbank | 0 | 0 | 30% | ||
wine-ico | 0 | 66,851,928 | 30% | ||
core.voter | 0 | 29,599,350 | 30% | ||
scooter77.pob | 0 | 1,940,717,177 | 100% | ||
vault.burn | 0 | 2,067,328,953 | 30% | ||
theguru.photos | 0 | 22,073,090 | 30% | ||
kavii | 0 | 12,010,160 | 30% | ||
golemnus | 0 | 667,790,740 | 80% | ||
deadleaf | 0 | 4,353,878,756 | 100% | ||
hivesl | 0 | 7,227,517,846 | 30% | ||
ifhy | 0 | 1,217,848,977 | 5% |
Congratulations @failingforwards! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain And have been rewarded with New badge(s) <table><tr><td><img src="https://images.hive.blog/60x70/https://hivebuzz.me/@failingforwards/upvotes.png?202502130412"></td><td>You distributed more than 150000 upvotes.<br>Your next target is to reach 155000 upvotes.</td></tr> </table> <sub>_You can view your badges on [your board](https://hivebuzz.me/@failingforwards) and compare yourself to others in the [Ranking](https://hivebuzz.me/ranking)_</sub> <sub>_If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word_ `STOP`</sub> **Check out our last posts:** <table><tr><td><a href="/hivebuzz/@hivebuzz/valentine-2025"><img src="https://images.hive.blog/64x128/https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/hivebuzz/48QSRDF9UdaJ9PSdVbmUUuWQjEegoX4RQP7VwMoyQhGa5e7mLA9dRvhjRqNBUk6QbW.png"></a></td><td><a href="/hivebuzz/@hivebuzz/valentine-2025">Valentine's Day Event – Spread Love with a Special Badge! 💝</a></td></tr></table>
author | hivebuzz |
---|---|
permlink | notify-1739420260 |
category | hive-167922 |
json_metadata | {"image":["https://hivebuzz.me/notify.t6.png"]} |
created | 2025-02-13 04:17:39 |
last_update | 2025-02-13 04:17:39 |
depth | 1 |
children | 0 |
last_payout | 2025-02-20 04:17:39 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
promoted | 0.000 HBD |
body_length | 1,050 |
author_reputation | 369,483,390,319,365 |
root_title | "Who’s on the Hook When Hive Promises Are Broken" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 HBD |
percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 140,756,847 |
net_rshares | 0 |
I've lost funds to glitchy swaps. IMHO, I think that we should consider data as king and not code as king. If a swap receives funds and a glitch prevents completing the transaction, the swap should refund the transaction. Unfortunately, the only way to force this ideal is legal action ... which is what people in the cyberworld want to avoid. !WINE
author | yintercept |
---|---|
permlink | re-failingforwards-sr6t7h |
category | hive-167922 |
json_metadata | {"tags":["hive-167922"],"app":"peakd/2025.1.3","image":[],"users":[]} |
created | 2025-02-05 01:52:33 |
last_update | 2025-02-05 01:52:33 |
depth | 1 |
children | 2 |
last_payout | 2025-02-12 01:52:33 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
promoted | 0.000 HBD |
body_length | 353 |
author_reputation | 28,134,504,278,651 |
root_title | "Who’s on the Hook When Hive Promises Are Broken" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 HBD |
percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 140,563,159 |
net_rshares | 0 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
endhivewatchers | 0 | 0 | 0.5% |
Thank you for your [witness vote](https://hivesigner.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=isnochys&approve=1)! Have a !BEER on me! To Opt-Out of my witness beer program just comment STOP below
author | isnochys |
---|---|
permlink | re-re-failingforwards-sr6t7h-20250205t224138z |
category | hive-167922 |
json_metadata | "{"app": "beem/0.24.26"}" |
created | 2025-02-05 22:41:42 |
last_update | 2025-02-05 22:41:42 |
depth | 2 |
children | 0 |
last_payout | 2025-02-12 22:41:42 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
promoted | 0.000 HBD |
body_length | 194 |
author_reputation | 47,797,420,966,212 |
root_title | "Who’s on the Hook When Hive Promises Are Broken" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 HBD |
percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 140,584,811 |
net_rshares | -5,286,473,516 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
spaminator | 0 | -5,286,473,516 | -0.25% |
Thank you for your [witness vote](https://hivesigner.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=isnochys&approve=1)! Have a !BEER on me! To Opt-Out of my witness beer program just comment STOP below
author | isnochys |
---|---|
permlink | re-re-failingforwards-sr6t7h-20250207t220805z |
category | hive-167922 |
json_metadata | "{"app": "beem/0.24.26"}" |
created | 2025-02-07 22:08:09 |
last_update | 2025-02-07 22:08:09 |
depth | 2 |
children | 0 |
last_payout | 2025-02-14 22:08:09 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
promoted | 0.000 HBD |
body_length | 194 |
author_reputation | 47,797,420,966,212 |
root_title | "Who’s on the Hook When Hive Promises Are Broken" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 HBD |
percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 140,633,987 |
net_rshares | -5,112,436,078 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
spaminator | 0 | -5,112,436,078 | -0.25% |