Is use of bid-bots unethical? If yes, why this platform allows bid-bots to work? by futuremind

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steemit · @futuremind · Sep 2 '18

$2.58

Is use of bid-bots unethical? If yes, why this platform allows bid-bots to work?

<a href="https://musing.io/q/akdx/pkgcnq9gx">View the original post on Musing.io</a><br /><p>This is a great question in my opinion, and there are some good arguments on both sides, but in my personal analysis, I've decided that I think bid bots are bad for the Steem economy. I will explain why.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Bid bots/fixed rate bots provide a service that many find valuable, "visibility boosting". &nbsp;The way Steemit is set up, you need upvotes, to get ranked in trending and hot, and this generally brings quite a bit of attention to your blog. This is a win for anyone who is willing to pay for the visibility, but is it really?</p>
<p>What turns me off the most about bots, is the fixed rate that is set with the majority of them. &nbsp;10 percent ROI doesn't add a great deal of room for growth. It also ensures that the bot owners get the absolute max value out of their system, all while ensuring the minnow stays small!</p>
<p>Imagine a bid bot that returns 100 percent profit after curation.. How long would you <em>need</em> to use the service before you could self upvote a substantial amount, and cut out the loss of profit? I assure you if the ROI was 100 percent, it wouldn't take very long for small guys to start whaling up. (The self upvote is another interesting debate IMO.)</p>
<p>I used to use bid bots for every post. What I came to realize, is it's more trouble than it's worth, you don't make the gains you think you will make, you will likely need to power down to continue botting because of how you are paid, and when the true conceptualization of what is really going on starts to sink in, you will be left feeling dirty, and like less of an asset to the community because of utilizing a system that is not good for Steemit.&nbsp;</p>
<p>There is more to consider than just bid bots. You have the self upvote, (which some frown on), you have the famous Steemit circle jerk, (another debatable practice), &nbsp;you have vote trading (which is pretty much in line with circle jerking), and there is even a debate regarding automation of votes, (which I personally am not against). To me these debates are all important , for various reasons within the Steem economy, but the bid bot discussion, may be one of the more important topics.&nbsp;</p>
<p>I don't blame the bot owners, and I think it would be foolish to do so. The bot owners are running a service/business to make money, and they shouldn't be frowned upon for doing so, in my humble opinion. The one's to blame are us, the one's who have used the bots, and the one's who continue to use the bots. &nbsp;If everyone stopped using them, the problem would be solved.</p>
<p>After a bit of discussion, (and the fact that I already receive pretty amazing support), I made a personal decision to no longer use the bots. &nbsp;Do I think this will slow down my growth? Maybe a little, but I feel better about myself knowing I am now contributing to the Steem blockchain in a fashion that is more conducive for positive, more natural organic growth, rather than in a way that keeps the wealth gap larger, in a corrupt way, driven by greed.&nbsp;</p>
<p>I hope my answer helps, good question! :)</p>

👍 musing, helpie, hr1, defango, barge, michaelluchies, bananamemos, imaginary-friend, jordanlove, crimsonclad, shepz1, isaria, eonwarped, futuremind, clayboyn, tea-man, inthenow, samueldouglas, sevendst19, philippekiene, artisticscreech, infamousit, giveabit, musicvoter, ntowl, yes-please, fl15, janine-ariane, mollythegreat, anarcho-andrei, discordiant, trevorpetrie, clubfungus, diabonua, redrica, mountainjewel, lillywilton, jayna, foxyspirit, luisferchav, kingeazi, pechichemena, frejafri, veckinon, soulturtle, melavie, mrxplicit, theturtleproject, hazem91, javicuesta, silentpartnerio, amymya, carpedimus, zyx066, themightysquid, kernelillo, socent, devondrjackson, camuel, avesa, art-mess, spawnband, mrwang, jonmagnusson, and 31 others

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@artisticscreech · Sep 3 '18 (edited)

$0.03

It really is a complex topic. There are resteem services that give big upvotes so they kind of blur a line too but, at least, they ere cheap so even a small account could afford to use them, which made some of them seem a little more "fair".

I never really used bid bots. I did use some of those resteem services with sizable upvotes though. I gave up on them (except for xtdevelopment because it is super cheap and it doesn't come with an upvote) because I usually took a loss.

I am on the fence about self-upvoting. I have done it but I usually don't. I think, in most cases, it is fine but I can also imagine how it could be abused if a person only ever votes on his or her own posts.

👍 imaginary-friend, futuremind

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@futuremind · Sep 3 '18 (edited)

This is a very complex topic indeed. There are so many variables to consider when self upvoting. What I think, is if you are a moderate poster, it is ok to self upvote. Posts only though. I kind of feel like boosting your comments to the top of a comment feed just because you can, isn't very cool, and it certainly doesn't give your comment any favor in my book, and at this point you are selfishly taking away from the votes you could be giving to others, by exhausting your VP on yourself.

That being said, the reason I feel it's ok to upvote your own posts, is because if you are one who enjoys helping others on the Steem Blockchain, you are doing your friends a favor by assisting yourself slightly with growth. I also feel it's justified if you buy a delegation, because aside from helping others with your increased vote, you are also getting a slight return back on your investment.

I go a little crazy trying to manage my VP, because I try to maximize my rewards to others, as well as maximize the curation rewards for myself, thus maximizing overall account growth. With such a low Steem Power at the moment, I vote everything at 100 percent, because voting lower would bring virtually no curation rewards. When I have some idle Steem Power, I like to look around for new authors on the platform to manually vote, or I'll randomly boost comments of my friends on here, and the more I am able to give, the better it makes me feel. To me, this is what it's all about here, and I find it pretty gratifying.

It's not all about the money though. If people get too obsessed about things like this, it takes away from the enjoyment of what we are supposed to be doing here, but we should be vigilant in terms of taking personal action and accountability for what we want on our platform, in my opinion.

I guess I might be rambling a bit, and I might have missed a point or two, the ganja is good lately.

Thanks for stopping by, myself and my @imaginary-friend appreciate it. :)

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@artisticscreech · Sep 3 '18

$0.03

"Posts only though." I typically draw a line there but even that isn't so black and white. I am fine with someone self-upvoting a comment if there is a good reason, like warning the poster about a scammer in the comments or something like that but, in most cases, I agree that it is not the nicest way to operate on this site.

" I also feel it's justified if you buy a delegation," I hadn't even considered that in this but I suppose it does play into things here. I guess it is like self upvoting in the sense that it could be used ethically or abused depending on the intention of the person. I have vp problems too because I like to upvote people (especially, if I comment on their post and I come across a lot of good comment worthy content) so I can see the appeal of "renting" some SP but I think that I would still only sporadically self-upvote with it if I did.

All of this doesn't even touch on other things like delegation rewards or stuff like sbi. I delegated to canna-curate because I believe in what it stands for but I do get a nice little upvote on one post a day in return. It isn't anything like using a bidbot and I have no ethical concerns about it but I suspect that some people on the extreme side of this debate might not see it that way. Then there is sbi. I give shares away to people as gifts (usually without telling them) when I think they are doing something good, making content that I like, or when they are always come around and comment on my stuff but (I don't know if you have ever bought any) I get a share when I buy someone else one so, in a sense, that is a kind of vote buying but I see a major distinction between that and using bidbots.

"It's not all about the money though. If people get too obsessed about things like this, it takes away from the enjoyment of what we are supposed to be doing here" Agreed. I am usually just happy to see that people are reading my stuff.

👍 imaginary-friend, futuremind

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@bananamemos · Sep 6 '18

$0.02

You bring up a lot of good points.  In the 5 months I've been here, there has been a LOT of discussion and shift in how some in the community would like to have things running on Steemit.  It seems to me that bidbots are falling out of favor, and there are several initiatives to "pool" the SP of many accounts and thereby give everyone a good upvote.  Such as @steem-ua.  

It's above my understanding, how all of this is working; I try to read and follow the more community-minded dolphins and whales, and am encouraged by some of the steps they're taking to make Steemit a more appealing place to hang out.

👍 imaginary-friend, futuremind

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@magic8ball · Sep 2 '18

To the question in your title, my Magic 8-Ball says:<blockquote>My sources say no</blockquote><hr>*Hi! I'm a bot, and this answer was posted automatically. Check [this post out](https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@magic8ball/introducing-the-magic-8-ball-bot) for more information.*

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@futuremind · Sep 2 '18

$0.03

OF COURSE THEY DO!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

👍 imaginary-friend, futuremind

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@shepz1 · Sep 2 '18

$0.03

Says the bot lol, you could not make this stuff up.

👍 imaginary-friend, futuremind

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3 replies

@michaelluchies · Sep 2 '18

$0.03

The Steemit team has allowed many forms of abuse to run rampant here. I do not think it's ethical, and I sure hope Scorum prevents it. They've already made some moves to set themselves apart even though they are focused just on sports.

👍 imaginary-friend, futuremind, samueldouglas

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@futuremind · Sep 2 '18

$0.06

It seems to me, people are starting to wake up to how bad the "abuse" is. Some of the newer dapps are doing a wonderful job of rewarding their users though. This fills me with jubilation! It's nice when those large delegations are put to use for the small guy, and it deters the temptation to turn to unethical practices for gain. 

Some of the major accounts don't use their SP at all, and I think this is also detrimental. If more users were rewarded (even minimally) for their efforts, whether it's the best "quality" content or not, it will still give users a sense of accomplishment, and deter from bot use. 

To me it comes down to educating oneself. Once you fully understand how things work on the Steem blockchain, it's easier to be a part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. I enjoy these conversations here. If a new minnow reads this, learns something, and is deterred from abuse, I did my part. 

Thanks for stopping by brother!

👍 dustsweeper, imaginary-friend, futuremind, samueldouglas

properties (23)vote details (4)

voter	rshares	pct
futuremind	7,632,605,762	100%
samueldouglas	5,883,386,862	100%
dustsweeper	18,227,753,736	1.77%
imaginary-friend	14,165,969,503	100%