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Curation Bot’s - Race to the Bottom - How it will Begin to Hurt Authors on ‘The List’.. by hisnameisolllie

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steem-help · @hisnameisolllie ·
$554.21
Curation Bot’s - Race to the Bottom - How it will Begin to Hurt Authors on ‘The List’..
There are many users on Steemit who get frustrated at the sight of the same authors on the **Trending List**, day in, day out. Well, I think I have good reason to believe this won’t last. This post is going to explore the reasoning behind my belief, and predict what the future holds for the **Curation Author List**.

http://i.imgsafe.org/02d629b871.jpeg
<a href='http://www.freepik.com/free-photo/doll-giving-out-a-flag_929927.htm'>Designed by Freepik</a>

I feel it’s probably diligent for me to explain what I mean by the **Race to the Bottom**. Some of the following content comes from a previous post of mine (posted a few weeks ago), feel free to skip this, if you have read the original (skip to: Authors on ‘The List’ - Enjoy your success while it lasts…);

[**Original Post**](https://steemit.com/steemit-bots/@hisnameisolllie/curation-bot-s-race-to-the-bottom-the-impending-bot-armageddon)

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Curation Bots are at war. It's an interesting phenomenon to watch. For some time some Curation Bot's have been making spectacular returns, but that is about to come to an end.

**The Original Curation Rewards Algorithm:**
It was simple, the Earlier you vote, the higher the share of the Curation Rewards you received (it was still relative to your Voting Power just like today). This lead to some very successful Bot's instantly up-voting (a split second after posting) any content with certain tags, or by certain authors. Curation was simply a race to vote first.

**The Curation Rewards Algorithm Today:**
The Algorithm is just like before, however with the addition of a 30 minute window where, the earlier you vote, the higher the proportion of your curation reward goes to the Author. So, if you vote 1 second after a post (is posted) you will synthetically be giving ~99% of you curation reward to the author. This changes on a 'sliding scale' until, If you vote 1 second before the end of the 30 minute window, you will give the author ~1% of your Curation Rewards.

**This Complicated Things.. Which was the point..**
So, what time do the Bot's coders set their vote to come in.. 5mins? 10mins? 15mins? 20mins? 25mins? 30mins? There is a trade off whatever time they opt for. Too late, gives other users the time to up-vote before the Bot, and take more of the curation rewards. Too early, and the bot will be giving away too much of their curation reward to the Author. This was the aim of the developers, to even the playing field and give human users a chance against the bot’s.

**Well, this is where Game Theory comes into play.**

**Let's talk about Steemit's favourite Bot.**
@wang is the original bot. But, he is hitting some problems, and unless he evolves, these problems won’t go away. @wang is very successful, and kudos to the owner of that account. They seen a big opportunity, and first mover advantage ensured they were compensated for their work.

When the Curation Algorithm changes came through, @wang set his vote to 15mins. Giving up 50% of the Cuartion Rewards, but still getting in nice and early.

Unfortunately for @wang, his success will be his downfall. This is the killer for every successful bot on Steemit. The Steemit Blockchain provides complete transparency to a users actions. So, some other clever users are sat there watching @wang making up to 900 Steem per day, and thought, "I want a bit of that..."

So, they set up a bot to 'front run' @wang (vote just before @wang). They looked at who or what @wang was voting on, and set their bot to vote at 14mins. Over time, the number of users engaging in this activity increased, and @wang Curation Reward begins to fall. So he Drops to 13mins. And so, the cycle begins once more, @wang has gone from 15mins to 9mins over the last few weeks...This means that @wang is currently giving away over 70% of his curation rewards to Authors;
9mins/30mins = 0.166666
1-0.3 = 70%

**Where does this end?**
I've been a futures trader from 8 years, and I've had to change my trading strategy too many times to count. I’ve gone through 12month period of following a strategy which makes consistent money, but then, more users start to follow your lead, and eventually the ‘Edge’ is gone. The money disappears, and you have to change your trading strategy to continue to make money. There is a term;

**Adapt or Die**

This fit's the upcoming Curation shift nicely. If there is one thing I know about, it’s the life cycle of a market inefficiency. Here is how it goes. I see the Steemit Curation very similar to trading a Financial Market. There is money to be made by identifying inefficiencies (a post that should have more up-votes), however, it’s currently too easy. There is only a finite pool of funds that can go to this type of Curation Behaviour, and as number of users following the same strategy increases, the rewards for each user will tend to zero over time…

**A Fast Buck Never Lasts**

Now, this brings me onto further thoughts on this topic, and the impact this type of behaviour will have on the lucky Authors on the list.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

## Authors on ‘The List’ - Enjoy the success while it lasts…
Users who are lucky enough to be on the **Curation Authors List**, receive an upvote from certain bots, regardless of the content of they post. This has lead to many user feeling frustrated by the curation reward system. 

The **key** point that has come to light for myself, is that, the curation ‘Race to the Bottom’ is only beneficial to Authors in the short term. 

**How are Authors Benefiting?**

http://i.imgsafe.org/085ae5c337.jpeg
<a href='http://www.freepik.com/free-vector/increasing-benefits-chart_899041.htm'>Designed by Freepik</a>

Bot’s are voting on content earlier and earlier. Asides from the Author rewards they receive from up-votes, authors are receiving a bigger percentage of the curation rewards. Some authors are receiving 80%+ of the Curation Rewards ‘Pot’. This is obviously great new for the authors, however I don’t believe this will last.. 

**Why will this Diminish?**

http://i.imgsafe.org/085ad14610.jpeg
<a href='http://www.freepik.com/free-vector/decreasing-benefits-chart_899042.htm'>Designed by Freepik</a>

As curators returns continue to fall due to the **’Race to the Bottom’**, it will get to a point where certain author are not worth losing **Voting Power** over. Curators will simply see value somewhere else, and move their votes accordingly. I believe this is already happening to a number of high profile authors, and I believe we will see this cycle repeated time and time again moving forward into the future. I would call it;

**Steemit Author-Curation Boom and Bust** 

This is one of the prime reasons I would advised any frustrated Content Creators to keep going. Opportunities will arrise, there will be a changing of the guard, and if your in the right place at the right time, creating great content, you could be the beneficiary of this phenomena.

**Thank you for reading, and as always I am interested to hear your thoughts. My post frequency will be falling to a reasonable level from here on out. I've had a little too much time on my hands over the past few days...**
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vote details (280)
@cryptogee ·
$1.51
>Users who are lucky enough to be on the Curation Authors List, receive an upvote from certain bots, regardless of the content of they post.

This statement is incorrect; their is no such thing as *The Curation Authors List*. What you have is certain whales have built up *individual* preferred author lists.

Each one of those has a different criteria for what they vote and how they vote for it. So for instance; Wang used to vote for me; and now doesn't, because of what you mention above.

However, there are some whales who vote for some of my content over other types, this is because they have a personal preference for some of my content and don't rate the other stuff so much.

Which brings me onto my next point; you're assuming that every single bot out there is voting purely for profit. This is dangerously short-sighted thinking, you have to remember that some of these bots belong to people with millions of dollars in their Steemit wallets.

*If* this system is a success, they will get to cash out those millions of dollars; if it isn't, they won't. 

Therefore, there are whales out there, who are trying to vote up the best content, and don't care about the peanuts they could make in comparisson by voting (peanuts to them of course).

So whilst your prediction may be right for some of the bots with a financial motivation; there are still people who are just looking to vote up quality, as this will see them realise their huge stake.

I have upvoted this post even though I don't agree in total, because you have a great delivery style and good analytical mind; and we need people like you :-)

*Cg*
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@hisnameisolllie ·
$0.60
Hello @cryptogee Thanks for your post. I certainly didn't make clear the fact that, users curate their own Author List, I was talking in general terms ('the list'), so thank you for clearing that up.

Your point is valid that not all bots are voting for profit. I personally think the majority are, however it is right to point this out. I think this will get more acute when/if delegated voting gets implemented. Users in it for the good of Steemit will delegate their voting rather than have a Bot IMO...

I have upvoted you for the same reason, however I agree with your post. I have certainly generalised these accounts into a single motivation group, for the purposes of my hypothesis. However I believe in the hypothesis regardless of the existence of Nobel Bot's.

I also don't think Bot's are bad. I'm exciting to see the evolution of the bots. They could be a very valuable indexing tool for Steemit moving forward.. They will improve and get more intelligent. Users will benefit because bots are not emotional. We will hopefully  see a day in the future when bot's push the best content to the top of the trending list, and create a true meritocracy.

Idealistic I know. But we can all dream :)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@cryptos ·
$0.13
Here is something interesting based on actual stats from following the votes of about 60 whales... the ratio of votes for popular authors versus new users is currently about 4:1 in favour of the already established names.
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@hisnameisolllie · 
Stats don't lie. This is certainly an area for improvement moving forward...
👍  
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@cryptos ·
$0.13
Hopefully the ratio will change over time in a positive way, but what we really need is a stronger middle class of users that can actually do enough without having to rely on whale votes...
👍  , ,
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@razvanelulmarin · 
i was expecting 6:1
👍  
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vote details (1)
@cryptos · 
It might as well go up to 6:1 or even  more as my algorithm is not yet 100% accurate and about 4:1 was just based on the last day of data, so there could also be additional variation... the fact that remains is the Whales do vote more for authors with established reputation and when they vote for new users they do seem to give votes to content and authors that may not deserve it as much as others... I've been tracking some interesting cases and posting about them as well.
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@etcmike ·
$0.14
I think you are right about the new 5 upvotes per day criteria in the upcoming Hard Fork and the 30 minute rule will start to spread out the author rewards on SteemIt.  It make take a bit of time, but in the long run the SteemIt developers are tilting toward humans over bots.

As the author rewards spread to quality content to more authors that are not always on the trending list, the success of SteemIt and STEEM will blossom.

Thank you for your post and thoughtful insights,

Steem on,
Mike
👍  , ,
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@hisnameisolllie · 
That's the dream @etcmike I like to think the changes being made are with the intentions of getting to your utopian end... I look forward to seeing how all this unfolds...
👍  
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@getonthetrain ·
$0.13
Great write up. I will continue creating the best content that I can in hopes that people will read my work. Thanks :D
👍  
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@hannixx42 · 
Excellent excellent article! I'm an early adopter and I chose to be a manual curator. I've voted every day since my first day. I vote for valuable authors based on effort and originality rather than using bots. I'm a Javascript engineer by profession and I could have easily created bots to cash in. However, I'm building a solid foundation to which I will create a loyal following and in turn grow a strong base of dedicated authors who will pay it forward in the future towards sustainable growth financial freedom.  A bot can never compete with the personal relationships built by integrity and loyalty. Others with this strategy will follow my blog and I will follow theirs and we will rise in numbers and success.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@instructor2121 · (edited)
$2.46
Dont forget about the manual curator who is at war with the bots. I battle everyday to take back a percentage of what the bots take from the community. I do this 17 hours a day..non-stop!

Great post olllie!
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vote details (30)
@ats-david · (edited)
Maybe you can put the bot creators out of business? I'm *really* sick of seeing the same authors - *with multiple posts each* - sitting in the top-15 on the trending page every day. It makes a mockery of the curating system, especially considering the quality of most of those posts.

Maybe you can put me on your manual curating list? I'm biased, but I think my posts are much better. If enough eyeballs see them, the other bots and whales won't matter. And I'll be happy just knowing that actual readers are seeing my posts.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@cryptocameo · 
Amazing work with the curation, keep it up +11111
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@cryptomancer · 
17 hours a day... * gasp * now that's dedication!  How do you manage to keep up that level of intensity without getting burnt out?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@instructor2121 · (edited)
its tough at times..then i recharge my batteries. lol

always keep in mind this is our community, we should try to contribute in anyway we can.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@hisnameisolllie · (edited)
I don't forget you guys @instructor2121 I know that you in particular work very hard on Steemit Curation. The great thing for you is, these bot's are not so intelligent just yet. You can adapt quicker, and you can read ;) Keep up the good work!!
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@wingz · (edited)
$0.23
One of the best curators on the site. Have you noticed the bot swarm that follows your votes? :P
#streemian
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@instructor2121 · (edited)
thank you for the kind words. yes, quite a few of them.

we have a very dedicated team working with RHW. they do a tremendous job.
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@jbouchard12 · 
So are we looking to vote as close to 29 minutes as possible? Thanks for the post was just talking about this with my buddy. And congrats on killing it on the @masteryoda list!
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@hisnameisolllie · (edited)
Yeah, @justtryme90 is right. The race to the bottom mean that, so many users are voting in the first 5-10mins on certain authors, anyone voting after 15mins doesn't get a look in. Complicated is certainly the optimum word.
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@justtryme90 ·
$0.13
It's more complicated than that I believe. Were nobody else to have voted then yes as close to 29 minutes as possible, but when others are voting that changes depending on the amount of SP those voters have.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@wingz · 
Some authors I vote for at the 4 min mark. The 29min mark is only relevant if noone has noticed the post yet. Basically youre screwed out of curation rewards if theres more than $10 on the table.
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@jrcornel ·
$0.13
Interesting points... I wonder what might increase our odds of being in that right place at that right time... any ideas?
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@hisnameisolllie · 
I personally think, doing exactly what you are doing. Your user name is etched in my memory because you engage with many of my posts. You will build up a nice reputation for being a great community member, and that alone will put you in great standing to be in the 'right place...
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@jrcornel · 
Thanks for the kind words and I hope you are right. I am not so sure though... I would think they would look at posting history and see that a poster does not consistently generate rewards, therefore they would move on to the brand new account that has 1 post worth $1k... that's the one they would follow. Wouldn't you think?
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@linkback-bot-v0 · 
<div>  <p>  This post has been linked to from another place on Steem.  </p>  <ul>        <li>      <a href="https://steemit.com/steemit/@luminousvisions/little-baby-dolphin-goes-to-steemit-school"> Little Baby Dolphin goes to Steemit School </a>      by      <a href="https://steemit.com/@luminousvisions">  @luminousvisions </a>     </li>        <li>      <a href="https://steemit.com/hardfork/@merej99/i-am-mostly-excited-about-all-the-changes-coming-in-the-steemit-hardfork-on-september-13"> I am (mostly) excited about all the changes coming in the Steemit hardfork on September 13. </a>      by      <a href="https://steemit.com/@merej99">  @merej99 </a>     </li>        <li>      <a href="https://steemit.com/steemit/@nanzo-scoop/initial-thoughts-of-a-virgin-bot-curator"> Initial thoughts of a virgin Bot Curator... </a>      by      <a href="https://steemit.com/@nanzo-scoop">  @nanzo-scoop </a>     </li>      </ul>  <p> Learn more about  <a href="https://steemit.com/steem/@ontofractal/steem-linkback-bot-v0-3-released">    linkback bot v0.3</a>   </p>   <p>Upvote if you want the bot to continue posting linkbacks for your posts. Flag if otherwise.   Built by @ontofractal</p></div>
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@luminousvisions · 
hi,

#### [I wrote a cute little story about a baby dolphin and all the posts he read on steemit](https://steemit.com/steemit/@luminousvisions/little-baby-dolphin-goes-to-steemit-school) last week **and your post is in it**!

have a look, I hope you like it

thanks
👍  
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vote details (1)
@mammasitta · 
Good Info ! Thanks
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@merej99 ·
$0.14
In my humble opinion, I think bots will keep winning out because an organic creator and curator like me cannot compete with 24/7 automation.  That being said, I think I've already taken myself out of the 'race to the bottom' because I vote with my heart and mind, generally leaving comments on the way - and my results, while modest, are getting better on all fronts :)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@hisnameisolllie · 
That's what I like to hear @merej99 :)
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@mikehere · 
Seems that you're one of the "lucky" ones being on the Curation Authors List.  Good job.  The reason I found this post is because I've been following a certain bot to see what they are upvoting and see what it benefits them.  I must say not much really these days.  Plus many of the posts have little content.  At least yours is good :)
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@hisnameisolllie · 
I have certainly been one of the 'lucky one's' @mikehere. I was in the right place, right time, built a user base doing posts like this, and then continued to posting. I'm an average writter (at best) who has found a style of posting that some users like. If I can become one of the noticed users on Steemit, I assure you anyone can.
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@mikehere ·
$0.12
Well I've been blessed to with people and a couple whales liking a few stories of mine but I'll need to be more consistent to be bot bait ;)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@nelyp ·
$0.13
Ok! I will keep going and maybe one day I will be in the right place at the right time, and of course creating good content :)
Thanks @hisnameisolllie!
👍  
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@quickfingersluc ·
$0.13
I'm glad I took a few minutes out of my day to check steemit today and stumbled on this post. I started to lose interest in steemit last week when my last few posts were not receiving any attention. (I was posting 5 to 10 times a week) I worked hard on my blog only to get some of my best work make less than a dollar and other posts over $100 or more. 

My story is common, I know. But the excitement I had when I first joined steemit has gone and I no longer have the desire to waste hours working on a post that gets unnoticed. Who wants to play the "will I get upvotes lottery??" Not me.. Not anymore.  

But thank you for posting this article, because it gives me hope that steemit will improve and could still have a future. So I will check back every now and again. But for right now, i'll fade onto the inactive user list, because I plain gave up.

Luc
👍  ,
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@hisnameisolllie · 
I do believe persistence will pay off. Many successful Authors have been on the Steemit Platform from the get go, and thus have a massive head start on new users. This advantage won't last for a number of reason (one of which I have covered above). Keep up the good work @quickfingersluc
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@roland.haynes ·
$0.14
This is certainly encouraging for the authors who are not on "the list". However, I am sure that as long as there is money involved the bot makers will find ways to get around whatever measures are put in place.
It will take more that your encouragement to make up for what is happening in terms of the voting system.
For example, it is a very simple task for bots to diversity subjects in order to make it appear that the subject contents are diversifying and to introduce "new" user bots which then leaves real authors and potential good content with no possible path to realize the promise of Steemit.
You are doing an excellent job of providing some measure of accurate information regarding why the platform works the way it does.
Unless Steemit starts allowing "good content" to participate in the financial rewards that are constantly visible, I see no real incentive for authors to put forth the energy and time required to produce excellent content.
I do see some reasonably good content getting some financial traction, however, it is a very small percentage.
This is not surprising since if one looks at the world outside Steemit you see that excellence and quality are not what generates the most financial rewards. So it is not reasonable to expect the Steemit platform to not be reflective of the world in general.
It is totally natural that as the number of users on the platform ramps there will be more financial rewards going to high quality content.
The difficult issue to resolve would be how would you provide enough incentive for individuals to generate exceptional quality content.
The good news for Steemit is that no other currently available functioning social media platform provides any direct financial incentive for high quality content.
If serious effort is put towards creating alternatives within the Steemit to attract and reward exceptionally good content, the platform would benefit greatly from its first mover advantage.
I cannot see that happening using the current voting algorithms because high quality content outside the platform requires special attention and infrastructures to maintain its support and existence.
Popularity driven systems will always put the greatest attention and rewards in the hands of content that meets the "lowest common denominator" in terms of quality. 
We have "human" curators who mean well and are devoting time and great effort to address the content issue but they are no match for well programmed bots.
Your efforts needs to be matched by very clever programming that puts some real leverage in the hands to of human curators.
Just my humble opinions!!
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@hisnameisolllie · 
@roland.haynes Good post. Thank you for sharing 

First of all, you are right. A true meritocracy is impossible to create, especially when rewarding users for **subjective** content. The thing is, many users might just like the content on the trending list, the same content that other users thinks is rubbish.

With regards to your point;
> We have "human" curators who mean well and are devoting time and great effort to address the content issue but they are no match for well programmed bots.

I believe that these bot's are not so clever, and they will begin to find it difficult to compete with a coordinated human effort. It's too easy to set a bot up, and copy or front run other successful bots. This race to the bottom will only hurt bots. Humans can adapt quicker, and they can **READ**. I don't believe that we will have a AI Bot that will be able to deduce the quality of a post anytime soon.
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@roland.haynes · 
I agree with you on your point about coordinated human efforts. If we can get enough people coordinated reading, curating, and creating content we could offset the bots. The sooner the better.
Your posts are helping to raise awareness and I find that to be encouraging.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@serejandmyself · (edited)
Isnt this a vecious circle then? 

You say "curators will not want to waste thier SP on certain authors but will prefer to vote for others" - Why would they if it will lead to the same loss? 

Dont get me wrong, some authors "on the list" deserve the payout, some dont, some deserve but a more realistic one

I do understand the  changes to take place, i just dont understand how what you are saying will take place as you got it in a circle. (or please re explain it again)
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@hisnameisolllie · (edited)
I think that, once an certain author become unprofitable (negligible) for the curators (because they are all fighting each other to be first voter), they will simply move on to another Author, and then the cycle begins again. 

I believe we will see this cycle continuing, with Curators moving on once rewards tend to zero, and there are better opportunities elsewhere. Authors will go through a boom and bust cycle, the curators move on to greener pastures...

For this reason, certain Authors earning 000's for each post is unsustainable IMO
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@steembriefing · (edited)
The vast, vast majority of authors earn nothing .. zilch .. zippo .. nadia .. and there is no way to increase holdings or voting power through curation - there are no substantial rewards for curation for the vast majority who have relatively low SP - basically, they can write and curate for 10 years, and make sweet fuck all!

If we have 100 000 people in here, all with no voting power, who are also doing what the Whales are doing, but on a smaller scale, upvoting their "friends list" - which will amount to upvoting their favorite fellow broke ass people, then the situation will be fundamentally unchanged.  We will all be sitting around, getting 12 cents per post, at the most, thinking about the good old days, when some guy posted the same damn statistics every day, and earned hundreds of dollars .. EACH AND EVERY DAY!

Let's get fucking REAL here!
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@smooth · (edited)
$0.55
I agree and disagree. Curation rewards for these authors is already way down. They won't continue to get the support from bots and other consistent voters they've been getting.

But I still think they will continue to be on trending, because they actually have readers and followers who like them and vote for them. All these curator bot operators aren't stupid, they continued to support these authors because the trailing votes (from readers) continued to come in and pump up the curation rewards. That won't change just because the curation rewards for the bot operators go away.

My next prediciton is that people will continue to whine and bitch about the same generally- talented authors (including yourself btw) succeeding because, well, that's how people are.

I also agree with @cryptogee that much of the author-list voting is not all curation-rewards motivated. 100% of the authors I consistently support are authors that I believe bring content to the site that adds value. Curation rewards are a bonus on top of that, but as he said, it wouldn't make sense of me to vote for something I believe to be harmful to the platform just for rewards
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@hisnameisolllie · 
Hello @smooth That all makes perfect sense. Thanks for your post

Where there is quality, up-votes will come. I think that is point well worth making, especially from yourself and many other users trawling through 000's of posts per day. It's will be interesting to see the rate of organic change we see in Author Rewards. 

There are certainly going to be new users coming along who will 'redesign the wheel' (so to speak) on Quality Content on Steemit. This will be the ultimate test of how fair the Curation Rewards are. **NOT** someone coming along attempting to 'copy' successful authors...
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@timcliff · 
Hi @smooth - I'm curious your thoughts on this (if you have time) :)

<a href="https://steemit.com/curation/@timcliff/human-vs-bot-curators-introducing-human-competition-into-the-equation-allow-whales-to-delegate-curation-power-to-dolphins-and">Human vs. Bot Curators - Introducing Human Competition into the Equation - Allow Whales to Delegate Curation Power to Dolphins and Minnows</a>
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@steembriefing · (edited)
Y'all misunderstand .. yes, we DO NOT like seeing the same assholes getting overpaid, EVERY DAY, for crap!  Because we KNOW that THE WHALES are filling the pockets of friends, family, and their philosophical heroes, and other bullshit like that.

So, if that stops that is great!

However, WE STILL WANT to see MASSIVE payouts for shit posts, just ones that we happen to have written.

So there is the dilemma .. make that shit happen! :-)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@hisnameisolllie · 
There is certainly an element of truth to;

> However, WE STILL WANT to see MASSIVE payouts for shit posts, just ones that we happen to have written.

I have read post by many users **(not all)** complaining about not being recognised, and (I'm not saying my content is above average) their content is horrible. 

Unstructured, Not referenced properly, hard to read...
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@smooth ·
$0.14
You content is above average. A high percentage of what gets posted is shit. Spending time on New is like digging through the garbage dump looking for that hard drive full of Bitcoins.
👍  
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@steevc · (edited)
$0.14
Will Steemit get like the stock markets where ping time makes a difference to how efficiently you can trade/curate? Are these bots useful to the Steemit community or just to their owners? I doubt they make any quality judgements.

I guess it's a free market, but I'd like to see quality rewarded rather than bots and human curators just trying to make money. Even when they reach 'the bottom' someone will find other ways to make money.

Anyway, this is interesting stuff. Cheers

BTW hope you don't mind me saying that you need to watch how you use apostrophes and the old your/you're problem. I tend to notice these issues, but I make mistakes too.
👍  
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@hisnameisolllie · 
@steevc I think you make some good points. 

I don't believe that we will get as far as 'ping time' impacting curation. I think that the sliding 30min window will simply push curators down another avenue before we get anywhere near that point.

Bot's do serve a purpose. They are currently indexing tools, and also, moving into the future, the more intelligent they get, the more service they will provide to Steemit. Certainly though, **some** bot's/**many** bots add no **value** whatsoever here.  

I don't mind you saying that at all. I apologise, gramma is not my forte. I will try my best to improve, however you will likely see these mistakes often from myself..
👍  
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@timcliff · 
I recommended this to @smooth below, but you also may be interested in this post :)

<a href="https://steemit.com/curation/@timcliff/human-vs-bot-curators-introducing-human-competition-into-the-equation-allow-whales-to-delegate-curation-power-to-dolphins-and">Human vs. Bot Curators - Introducing Human Competition into the Equation - Allow Whales to Delegate Curation Power to Dolphins and Minnows</a>
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@stevescoins ·
$0.90
An interesting parallel lies in a view of stock market trading:
+ There is technical trading, which looks at trade patterns, floors, ceilings, and other market defined attributes of a stock.  Technical traders aim to make money by trading on how the stock's market performance, and tend to work for near-term profits.  Buy on Monday, Sell on Friday when the market swings, for example
+ The opposite of that lies in fundamental trading.  In this strategy, the stock is valued on the company's performance, P/E , dividends, and debt ratios, for example.  This strategy is a long term strategy, and is based on the premise that the value of the stock will grow in market value

The similarity to Steemit lies in the tactics of curating;  the behavior that you describe so well in your post is similar to technical trading.  Curators who search out new authors of quality, or seek to find a "hidden gem" of a post are taking an approach more in line with the fundamentals trading concept.

I'm not going to argue that one strategy is better than the other.  For my own part, I did well in the stock market by using both approaches.  I bought undervalued stock, and traded in options.

However, there was underlying value to be had on the market, and undervalued companies could make profit without being traded on the market.

On the Steemit platform, new users who are unrecognized are going to quit taking part in and building value for the Steemit "market".

I would suggest Steemit investors that want to maintain the long term value of the platform diversify their curating approach, and spend some time digging up new content in addition to chasing the trending dragon.

Ansd since I haven't said this yet, well-written!
👍  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@hisnameisolllie · 
@stevescoins Great post. Something which i have touched on in the past, but not presented as eloquently as yourself.
👍  
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@stevescoins · 
Thank you!  Feel free to re-use the analogy;  it is the idea that counts, and ideas are better when coming from trusted speakers...according to most folks ;)
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@wingz · 
I agree, the curation market is entirely a trading market.
👍  
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@stevescoins ·
$0.10
@wingz, your last blog on building Steemit value fits well with ollie's discussion and my comment
👍  
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vote details (1)
@teamsteem · (edited)
$0.14
@dantheman is your greatest supporter in terms of rewards you received in the last 4 weeks and there is a lot to be proud. (http://steemvp.com/)

Many people are  rewarded by what you are sharing.

Every Steemians would greatly benefit from reading you. 

Thank you @hisnameisolllie!
👍  
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@hisnameisolllie · 
Thanks @teamsteem I, along with many other can certainly do more though. I **don't** Curate and spend all my time Creating content and engaging with comments. I would be the first one to delegate my voting power to a (or a group of) Great Curators supporting new talented Authors if that option ever arrives... I believe it is on the agenda...
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@the-ego-is-you · (edited)
$0.14
@hisnameisolllie 

I think you are highlighting a real issue here. 
Let's not stop making our voices heard and let's try to make it so that a future version of steemit doesn't go through these extremes the same way.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@hisnameisolllie · 
Hello @the-ego-is-you I don't think it is all bad. I like the idea that there will be a 'changing of the guard', and new up and coming talent will replace 'us' dinosaurs who have been posting on Steemit from the get go. Anything that will improve the user experience (quality and diversity of content) on Steemit, I'm all for...
👍  
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@the-ego-is-you · (edited)
$0.14
I do as well. I just think the whole "boom-bust" behaviour (which is similar to how  pump-and-dumps work) isn't a great feature, even though the "market" itself is obviously a good thing.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@thestoryteller · 
Very interesting article. As a Steemit Newby it all seems a bit confusing. I continue to re-read the tutorials and hope that by following posts like this I can learn a lot more. My biggest question is that of a close universe. It seems that the only people here are those who have Steemit accounts. So is some of this not just "preaching to the choir?"  Wonder if there is a way, or is it already in the plan, that content writers here would post things that people in the outside world would be able to access and enjoy?  Or do I not understand it well enough yet?
👍  
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@hisnameisolllie · 
I certainly think there will be a transition to that. In fact, I think it is already happening slowly. It wasn't to long ago that all of the trending articles were Steemit related... Diversity is coming thick and fast. Just a matter of time before Steemit becomes truly accessible to the non-crypto community..
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@haphazard-hstead · (edited)
@thestoryteller - I've been amazed at how well Steemit posts do in Google Search. I made a post here on Steemit that ranks 1 and 3 for search terms that someone interested in eating wild plants might search for. And in my own searches for different information, I've seen recent Steemit posts. That's amazing and should help bring people to Steemit. That helped me understand the reason for encouraging long-form content over chat in Steemit's early days.
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@ubg · 
Where is this list you speak of?
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Help/Feedback