Thanks :)

Yeah there are so many potential options you could potentially program into this system.

When it comes to staking HP, and the discussion on length of powerdown, etc., I think many people forget or do not know that Steem's original powerdown was a 104 week cycle, and was changed to 13 weeks.

Some still long for that shorter power down cycle, specially in an age of competing with DPoS tokens that let you un-stake instantly, or in less than 3 days. But, I believe there is potential gains and predictability in the effects of a longer power down cycle, or even something like PHP where stake is permanent.

Overall, even if it isn't PHP, I also do still swing back to the theory that if you have a reason to burn tokens and destroy the value, why not find options to transfer the value in a better way than existing tokens price appreciation. PHP seems like an interesting way to destroy a Hive token's value for the potential long term benefits if you truly believe Hive is the future of social media blockchains.

I'm not saying I'd burn all my Hive for PHP, or even keep a higher stake % in PHP over HP, but i would definitely have a large % stake risked since I believe that Hive is going to do big things and if the incentives of PHP reflected the value of that risk of a permanent commitment.

Thanks for the feedback! Followed.

My thought exactly. Why not lower the overall cap instead? You could even change them to be burned before distributed by allocating a % to @null, right?

True, even if not permanent, having a longer power down with greater rewards is an excellent idea to test I believe. The longer your commitment, the more stable the ecosystem, and that should merit greater rewards.

Thanks for the feedback!

Exactly. It's Hive being powered up, but permanently. Permanent staking. 

Although, @yintercept did bring up a good point, it’s only as permanent as selling your account unless you program it in a way that you cannot do so.

If we reset the master password to the account, I believe that changes all of the public key/private key pairs of your other keys such as posting, active, owner, memo.

So, I wonder if it can be created in a way where you also have a burn key? If you reset the master password, it would destroy the public/private key pair of the burn key.

As far as if investors would show interest, I think it depends on incentives. 

If you make a list of all the incentives to hold regular HP, you’d have to have much higher incentives than that to get users to risk burning liquid Hive for the greater rewards.

But, as whales and other users who have more assets to risk begin to do so, it would create pressure for almost everyone on Hive to allocate a % of their Hive to PHP in order to stay competitive in curation rewards, bandwidth, and other incentives HP gives you.

I would think there would have to be a threshold at which PHP users are reaping from the rewards pool at a higher rate than regular HP, that it would give incentive to allocate some of your Hive to PHP.

The reward from that is the overall total liquid Hive is reduced creating more value for existing liquid Hive, and you gain the ability to gain additional rewards from the risk of committing to a permanent stake.

The downside is a permanent stake could go to zero if Hive fails long term. But a permanent stake should create more incentive than HP which can be powered down, and users cut and run.

I have a feeling you would probably never see the overall % of PHP be higher than HP. People want the safety net to cut and run. But it would be interesting to see if and a how an addition of PHP would act in real life.

Thanks for the reply. 

I definitely agree, you would not want a single account holding PHP. So, the intention I was speaking of was definitely in the sense of individual's holding it. 

The incentive to sell accounts that hold PHP may be a bad thing. That was one of the things I had thought about, but I hadn't really explored the +/- and if there would be a way around that.

When thinking about PHP, there are a few different ways to implement it. One way is to create a burn address for each account, and the liquid Hive would be sent to that address with no spending output, hence burning it. This doesn't require sending to a central burn address like @null, but I'm unsure if current or new accounts could be set up to add a new burn address to a current private key. But, you would probably need this, because you wouldn't need an additional token to represent PHP, nor would you want that additional token sent to an address with spending outputs, or it would render PHP no different than HP because you may not be able to power it down, but you could sell/trade it. So, I believe the best option would be the actual Hive in he burned address per account.

So, if you decide you want to sell you Hive account and you have incentive because it has a large amount of PHP, that may not be a good thing. Now, technically today you could still sell an account full of HBD, Hive, and HP. It could be as valuable as a whale account, or a zero balance, or minnow account. Nothing stops you today, so would an account with PHP really be any different than selling a loaded account today, other than the fact that it is loaded with PHP that is permanent and cannot be liquidated? Not that I see.

But, you are correct, it could create incentive. It would be a safer sale than selling an account with liquid Hive and liquid HBD, in the sense that you could sell the account, take the payment, then immediately sending the Hive/HBD from that account, screwing over the buyer.

One possible way to do it though that could work is, if you change your master password/keys, it would destroy the PHP burn address and create a new one. The first thing someone does when receiving a purchased account is change the password so that the previous owner can no longer access that. I wonder if that would be a possible solution? That way if you were to sell the account to a new user, they would not receive he PHP address associated with the account? If you could not transfer the account to a new user, you wouldn't have any incentive to borrow against the account?

Just a thought. Thanks for your input.

Also, why do you believe it would incentivize a user to sell an account that holds permanent value?

My original thought was that it would more likely incentivize one to keep the account, and use it more, because you have a permanent stake. I do think if there were a way to destroy the burn address so that if an account were sold, that it would not provide incentive to sell the account, but to double down on retaining and using it because the only way to get the value back out of it is by use since you cannot liquidate. Because even current Hive Power can be powered down and liquidated. 

If I didn't have that option to liquidate, I feel like it would incentivize me to work through the problems on Hive and really try to add value to the space so that I can continue reaping the rewards of PHP.

What's the problem if someone wants to sell their account?  People can sell all their Hive now.

>BTW: I think the downvote actually works a bit like burning HIVE POWER. It removes the rewards from a post.

I think the rewards go back to the reward pool. Downvotes  affect reward distribution. It doesn't burn any rewards.