create account

How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be? by indigoocean

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @indigoocean · (edited)
$6.15
How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?
Building on the idea of [why money is un/needed](https://steemit.com/money/@indigoocean/the-value-of-money) I'd like to dive in a bit more to look at the scenario in which money is not needed.

Basically, money is needed when either there is not enough trust that fairness will occur or when there is too much complexity to manage fairness without some way of formally keeping score. 

*So where in your life do you never use money?*

**Well if you're like most people, the answer is within your family.**

I'm sure there are some exceptions to this out there, but most of us grew up in a household in which money never changed hands among members. We may have been given an allowance at some age, but that was for buying things outside the household.

Our parents didn't charge us rent. We weren't denied an extra helping of mashed potatoes until we coughed up a dime. We were clothed, housed and fed for free and our parents even tried their best to delight us with entertainment and fun experiences whenever they could too. 

![childrens-drawings-716340_1280.jpg](https://ipfs.busy.org/ipfs/QmULBxGRfJMC4pMiN7tLaWTLnFPkn9CMXHzipGHkFRiJPb)
*[Source](https://pixabay.com/en/children-s-drawings-coloring-village-716340/)*

Now many of us had chores, so you might say we were working to earn these things as payment. Even if you look at it that way, still there was no money. We skipped the money part and there was simply each person contributing their activity for the benefit of the family however they could, knowing that if everyone did that, all would be fed, clothed, and housed in a clean home. 

My job was washing dishes after dinner and helping clean the whole house on Saturday mornings. My older sisters had bigger jobs, but they also had bigger abilities. One sister did a lot in the garden, which was her choice. She volunteered to build up the family garden, working beside my mother sometimes but also going above and beyond. Another sister sometimes cooked. (Funny thing is that she never became a good cook but I did, though that was never my job as a kid.)

Our parents and even grandparents worked outside the home to make the money needed to bring new resources into the family unit. But once those resources were in the family unit, transaction in money ended. 

Is it random correlation that within the family there was also a free flow of love? No one was really keeping score. Well if one of us didn't do our chores, someone was sure to tattle, but mostly we knew our jobs and did them. And even when tattling, there was no need for a scoreboard. Everyone knew what contribution they made and no one thought about any scorecards. 

#### We gave and we received within an environment of togetherness and shared well-being or shared lack. We were truly all in it together.

<br>Now some people had very unhappy childhoods, so there may be no use of this metaphor that sounds like a reality they want to recreate as an adult. Or if your family was always keeping score and carrying grudges, even if they didn't actually get out a spreadsheet to manage it all, well then again, this metaphor won't evoke happy feelings. 

I suspect though that most people would love to live with the sense of security that freedom from having to track everything with money might bring in adult life.

## A Family Village

<br>What if you could live in a community made up of multiple families, with only some people going out to bring in resources from outside the community (earning money). 

Then once the resources were within the community each family drew from them as they needed to without having to keep score. And each family also did work within the community that benefited everyone, without keeping score.

![cyprus-3830735_1280.jpg](https://ipfs.busy.org/ipfs/Qmd3ApLxQvDmtLdbGtTSbpKUTAvCS8YgzUMB6P4H1jh981)
*[Source](https://pixabay.com/en/cyprus-askas-troodos-landscape-3830735/)*

So let's say some people were very good with math, so helped all the children with learning math. Perhaps such people would also project ahead for supply utilization, so made sure there was always enough of regular supplies by ordering ahead.

Others might be particularly good with organizing, so organize activities that required a lot of people working together to get something done at once. Others had great spatial relations skills, so planned out the building of new structures. Or fixed broken gadgets. 

![learning-1782430_1280.jpg](https://ipfs.busy.org/ipfs/Qmd8bJ5NkerWmJhCoeBxNE842QKShhQyppbu4jFyS2qezt)
*[Source](https://pixabay.com/en/learning-school-outdoor-asia-book-1782430/)*

And so on. Each person looked at where there unique talents were and built those up into skills that were at a level useful to the community. They then spent their time contributing those skills however they could see an opportunity to.

Never would they have to think:*"Am I doing enough to earn my keep? Am I about to be expelled for taking more than I give?"*

No, there would be no such insecurity. They would know that everyone was doing what they can to contribute to the well-being of all and that others knew they were doing the same. There would be love and trust, just as there is within a family. Everyone knows that we all thrive or experience lack together. 

## Why This Fails
<br>This is only possible though when people do feel that level of trust and positive regard that is found within a healthy family.

As soon as an element of suspicion, accusation, or judgment enters things start to go awry. 

Most people find that there is a limit to how large an idea of "family" they can manage. For some it isn't even their actual nuclear family. But in some places you do find villages that have been stable a long time and in which life is like this.

I met a shaman/elder from a Colombian Native American community last year who described life in his village very much as I just described above. They don't have any money moving within the village. Only recently have they even started having things that must be brought in from outside the village using money. The elder I met is traveling to raise those funds. He's the sole member of the village who must "work" outside the village to bring in resources the community cannot itself create.

They are able to manage at the size of their village without needing a system of record for keeping score, whether a ledge or actual physical money. But other old villages around the world have long used money, trading silver ingots, beads, shells, all sorts of things across the millennia.

It's not that there is no room for money in a close community. It's just that there is the option of choosing not to use it. And given the chance, having seen how both feel to live under, I think many of us would choose the system that involves no concept of "am I secure here?"

## What Do You Think?
<br>*Would you like to live in a community that had no money flowing within the community itself?*

*Would you want to be one of the ones who brings resources into the community by interacting with the outside world of money?*

*What would it take for you to trust a group of people enough to live like this with them?*

*How many people do you think would be the largest such society you could see yourself being a part of?*

*Is it fun to think about?*

![pancakes-1512834_1280.jpg](https://ipfs.busy.org/ipfs/QmbxwcnyJkd2BZ8HjN816vCWvwT59PQYxfUDeQhT5fuZns)
*[Source](https://pixabay.com/en/pancakes-cook-cakes-hash-browns-1512834/)*
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 234 others
properties (23)
authorindigoocean
permlinkhow-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be
categorylife
json_metadata{"community":"busy","app":"steemit/0.1","format":"markdown","tags":["life","community","busy","tribevibes","economy"],"links":["https://steemit.com/money/@indigoocean/the-value-of-money","https://pixabay.com/en/children-s-drawings-coloring-village-716340/","https://pixabay.com/en/cyprus-askas-troodos-landscape-3830735/","https://pixabay.com/en/learning-school-outdoor-asia-book-1782430/","https://pixabay.com/en/pancakes-cook-cakes-hash-browns-1512834/"],"image":["https://ipfs.busy.org/ipfs/QmULBxGRfJMC4pMiN7tLaWTLnFPkn9CMXHzipGHkFRiJPb","https://ipfs.busy.org/ipfs/Qmd3ApLxQvDmtLdbGtTSbpKUTAvCS8YgzUMB6P4H1jh981","https://ipfs.busy.org/ipfs/Qmd8bJ5NkerWmJhCoeBxNE842QKShhQyppbu4jFyS2qezt","https://ipfs.busy.org/ipfs/QmbxwcnyJkd2BZ8HjN816vCWvwT59PQYxfUDeQhT5fuZns"]}
created2018-12-23 17:22:24
last_update2018-12-23 18:34:45
depth0
children27
last_payout2018-12-30 17:22:24
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value4.691 HBD
curator_payout_value1.459 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length7,487
author_reputation83,283,947,872,393
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,279,694
net_rshares11,072,370,490,121
author_curate_reward""
vote details (298)
@arthur.grafo · (edited)
$0.03
To be honest, I see what you describe as an ideal, as a life which ignores the weaknesses in us. For instance, you mentioned the one who organises. At some point, most such people begin to want to organise even the way we think.

The other problem is that even if such a state of relationships can be extended to a village, it will just make those people vulnerable to people from outside who are cruel or harsh in their ways of thinking.

It is the problem I see with any Utopia dreamt of,; it can only exist if everyone is equally good and giving.

Not likely, is it? Not planetwide.

Your post was nice and positive and it touches on a way of life we dream of, so, sorry if my reply was a downer.

PS: I suppose, now, I do not qualify for one of the cookies?
👍  
properties (23)
authorarthur.grafo
permlinkre-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t173554799z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 17:41:57
last_update2018-12-23 17:42:42
depth1
children4
last_payout2018-12-30 17:41:57
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.032 HBD
curator_payout_value0.002 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length761
author_reputation99,291,254,449,732
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,280,316
net_rshares76,365,977,116
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@indigoocean ·
Your reply isn't a downer at all. It speaks directly to the primary question of this post: How large a community does this work for?

Your answer is clearly "not a planet," to which I would wholeheartedly agree. In fact, for me the number might be something like "3 families."

That's the size at which I feel like I could manage the depth of healthy relationship required for something like this. 

And also, it very much matters who is in the community. Just as many nuclear families can't even run in a healthy way, those people when introduced into a community situation have a negative effect at that level too. This may be why only some villages small enough to live this way have over the millennia. Those communities that do live without money are ones that also have very healthy psycho-spiritual norms that raise very psychologically healthy people.
properties (22)
authorindigoocean
permlinkre-arthurgrafo-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t174557941z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 17:45:57
last_update2018-12-23 17:45:57
depth2
children2
last_payout2018-12-30 17:45:57
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length859
author_reputation83,283,947,872,393
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,280,431
net_rshares0
@arthur.grafo ·
Thanks for your reply.

When I saw your reply, I went to your blog page and read through a number of your posts - and the daunting number of comments.

I take my hat off to you. You are one of the few people nowadays who can debate differing points of view - and do so in an organised manner.

It makes you a special person, so I've added you to my feed so that I get reminded now and then to take a look at your posts. btw - I am glad to see that I do not agree with all your points, which makes it more interesting for me.

I suggest you do not reciprocate as my fiction and political posts are not likely to be your 'cup of tea'. Just leave it to me to come to you now and then to discuss some points you've made that I feel strongly about.
properties (22)
authorarthur.grafo
permlinkre-indigoocean-re-arthurgrafo-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t182533514z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 18:31:33
last_update2018-12-23 18:31:33
depth3
children1
last_payout2018-12-30 18:31:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length743
author_reputation99,291,254,449,732
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,281,919
net_rshares0
@metama ·
@arthur.grafo ... what weakness do you discuss??

I think a primary arguement of a system like this is *inherent greed* but that is something I do not agree with. If you look at the people who are greedy, or even those we may describe as *evil* ... I think they are all lacking in something very important ...
# love!

They unfortunately have been tricked to believe that accumulating material wealth can make up for this lack ... but if they were given the love they needed ... do you think they would still be greedy?
I believe that they may break down into the child like state that they really live in and bawl with gratitude ...
even the most wicked of humans are still humans ... and I think humans **naturally** are loving. We have to be trained to be angry and mean.
properties (22)
authormetama
permlinkre-arthurgrafo-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t221207990z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"users":["arthur.grafo"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 22:12:09
last_update2018-12-23 22:12:09
depth2
children0
last_payout2018-12-30 22:12:09
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length774
author_reputation165,262,757,751,752
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,288,914
net_rshares0
@arthur.grafo ·
#2
It is sad to see how Steemit, which started off by trying to make our world better, is falling apart so quickly. 

I cannot believe it, you have, at this time, 41 votes, earning you the grand total of 0.06STEEM.

It seems those whose votes still have some value are too busy voting for themselves and their supporters, for them to worry about looking for good posts to reward.
properties (22)
authorarthur.grafo
permlinkre-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t174021786z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 17:46:24
last_update2018-12-23 17:46:24
depth1
children3
last_payout2018-12-30 17:46:24
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length379
author_reputation99,291,254,449,732
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,280,439
net_rshares0
@indigoocean ·
No worries. I'm actually in 3 communities through discord that usually get me a few dollars upvote within the first day or so. But I've stopped really being attached to how much I earn on here. I just try to put out one quality post per day and curate at least 5 quality posts each day, and most days I think I succeed. 

But I do have concerns about the economics of this business model in general. On STEEM but also on other blockchain platforms I'm on like Trybe, Minds, Whaleshares, etc. I've put in a lot of money and at this point am down $14k because I didn't fully understand the short-comings of this model at the time I invested. Now that I know more, I think it's a great place to have more quality global dialog about various ideas, because it does offer financial incentives a lot of people find motivating. But I think in the long run it never can support a developed nation income, unless you're a witness or doing things to rip off the rewards pool faster than others are.
properties (22)
authorindigoocean
permlinkre-arthurgrafo-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t183146886z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 18:31:48
last_update2018-12-23 18:31:48
depth2
children2
last_payout2018-12-30 18:31:48
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length988
author_reputation83,283,947,872,393
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,281,926
net_rshares0
@arthur.grafo ·
I live in South Africa, am a pensioner, but I do not accept that I am at the latter end of my life. 

Sometimes I feel that way because I woke up with a story running through my mind (often as a very real dream) and it is turned into a story I share (as happened today). 

Other times, I feel my blood pumping because it seems, for a short time, like we might manage to resist and destroy the globalists (I say so with risk of offending, as I do not know what your own political leanings are, but I'm banking on your love for debate preventing you from feeling offended).

At other times, it is because somebody gave me a smile while I was shopping, or because a loved one remembered to call and ask how I am.

.

I am also still willing to fight to make a dream or two come true. I do not know whether I can, as it depends on making a good and correct presentation at some kind of gofundme kind of site. I want to buy a piece of land and create a vegetable garden, with chickens and fruit trees. Part of the produce will go to the snobbish elite ceo's and so on, at a high price, for no chemicals will be allowed on the property, only natural fertilising, plus no GMOs. I have talked to a couple and they are happy to join the club as their companies will pay the membership fees, while they are happy to pay my prices for something they know is healthy for their families.

Only part of the produce will go to them - the rest will be supplied to children at subsidised prices for their meals. At our coffee shop, only butter, no margarine, only coconut oil used for cooking, not canola etc which are poisonous. Only olive oil for salads....and so on. No fancy meals, good basic stews, a few specialities I love from my stay in Greece and so on...

I also want university students to come in the evenings, so that we can connect to discuss Philosophy and Ethics on the internet, with people like Stefan Molyneux...and now...yourself.

If I succeed, I hope you will not refuse me... :)
👍  
properties (23)
authorarthur.grafo
permlinkre-indigoocean-re-arthurgrafo-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t184047252z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 18:46:48
last_update2018-12-23 18:46:48
depth3
children1
last_payout2018-12-30 18:46:48
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,985
author_reputation99,291,254,449,732
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,282,399
net_rshares1,410,031,799
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@belleamie ·
$0.02
Would you like to live in a community that had no money flowing within the community itself?  

No. I think it would be boring to be so completely isolated form the world outside. I don't like the idea of there being a formal "no-money" rule. But, I would love to live in a community where the trust was built organically and people were generous with one another as though they were family. Generosity and reciprocity would be lovely in a small tight-knit community. But having it policed or enforced as the social norm would ruin it for me.
👍  
properties (23)
authorbelleamie
permlinkre-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t182254140z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 18:22:54
last_update2018-12-23 18:22:54
depth1
children2
last_payout2018-12-30 18:22:54
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.019 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length542
author_reputation1,010,224,399,840
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd0
post_id77,281,642
net_rshares46,068,172,788
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@indigoocean ·
Well the idea of it being enforced is being added to my question by you, but I can definitely relate to not wanting to add that element. Yes, the question, which you've also answered, is really whether we would enjoy getting to live without the NEED for money, just as within the families we grew up in.
👍  
properties (23)
authorindigoocean
permlinkre-belleamie-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t182604100z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 18:26:03
last_update2018-12-23 18:26:03
depth2
children1
last_payout2018-12-30 18:26:03
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length303
author_reputation83,283,947,872,393
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,281,734
net_rshares19,489,552,090
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@belleamie ·
Fair enough. I guess I couldn't imagine it working without enforcement. But I am viewing this through a western lens where the experiments I have seen in this direction have turned into cults that exploit their members and leave said members financially ruined when and if they finally get out. In the context of a remote indigenous-lifestyle village, I think it's a beautiful vision. I just can't imagine it working in the context of the modern world. That said, my dream is to live in close proximity to my nearest and dearest friends that are chosen family. But my dream includes separate houses and financial independence from one another with shared commons that we all contribute to.
properties (22)
authorbelleamie
permlinkre-indigoocean-re-belleamie-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t191338261z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 19:13:39
last_update2018-12-23 19:13:39
depth3
children0
last_payout2018-12-30 19:13:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length689
author_reputation1,010,224,399,840
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd0
post_id77,283,291
net_rshares0
@belleamie ·
Also, have you read Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein? I think you would connect deeply with what he has to say.
properties (22)
authorbelleamie
permlinkre-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t182400409z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 18:24:00
last_update2018-12-23 18:24:00
depth1
children0
last_payout2018-12-30 18:24:00
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length117
author_reputation1,010,224,399,840
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd0
post_id77,281,687
net_rshares0
@in2itiveart · (edited)
$0.05
I love this "idea" and I know it could work as it did work years ago in Native culture. The Amish are also probably at some level like this. I believe that it has been said that 150 is the largest group that it could work in. I personally would love to live in such a community. Not only would trust be required, but it would also be required to be trust-worthy and also problems and differences would have to be worked out using principles. I saw one person actually thinks UBI is the answer! That is funny! There is no exterior gadget that would work to make this happen. Only each individual person being challenged to live in a much different way would make this happen - this way of living would be the result of people living under Natural Law - harm none - the Golden Rule. No gadget supplied by humans will do that for people. It is a psychic change which must occur within the human heart and mind for people to be able to trust. Basically human beings would probably have to have reliance upon unlimited supply of the the Universe in order to be able to live this way.
👍  
properties (23)
authorin2itiveart
permlinkre-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181227t045453731z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-27 04:54:54
last_update2018-12-27 05:00:18
depth1
children4
last_payout2019-01-03 04:54:54
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.034 HBD
curator_payout_value0.011 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,078
author_reputation198,299,034,459,072
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,435,738
net_rshares80,724,755,520
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@indigoocean ·
I also see the answer as being the inner development needed to make it work, despite how we've been trained to distrust one another. We are all afraid to be dependent on others, yet interdependence is required for us to thrive in harmony with life. It's frightening though when you have no example of healthy interdependence, so people just imagining losing personal power and now having to live at the whim of the power of "the community" over them. That's not what it is, because they are an integral part of the community too. But most of us have never really seen that in its daily mechanisms, let alone experienced it. How I wish something as simple as UBI would be the answer, but we would just bring all our normal drama into that new life, now just with a little welfare baseline so many would try to scratch by on, but still live with resentment and powerlessness. We must regain our true power, which is power-with.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. I appreciate the 150 number too. I honestly don't think I could even handle that. If I could manage to live like this with just a couple other families I'd be so proud of myself! But I wonder if there is also a minimal viable size.
👍  
properties (23)
authorindigoocean
permlinkre-in2itiveart-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181227t055722669z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-27 05:57:21
last_update2018-12-27 05:57:21
depth2
children3
last_payout2019-01-03 05:57:21
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,202
author_reputation83,283,947,872,393
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,437,503
net_rshares9,100,544,515
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@in2itiveart ·
i got the 150 number from formal consensus I think - which was derived from the iriquois confederacy. there has been quite a bit of work done on this by intentional communities - ic.org - you should look into that site - many people have worked for many years to make this happen. All over the place there are cooperative housing solutions and worker cooperatives that utilize principles to live and work together for the highest good of all concerned.
👍  
properties (23)
authorin2itiveart
permlinkre-indigoocean-re-in2itiveart-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20190104t045332314z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2019-01-04 04:53:33
last_update2019-01-04 04:53:33
depth3
children2
last_payout2019-01-11 04:53:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length452
author_reputation198,299,034,459,072
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,844,911
net_rshares31,820,081,762
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@metama ·
$0.03
wonderful post @indigoocean 

this is the way I think (hope) we are headed. With UBI everyone will be one family ... people will be free to act as they wish and everyone can *add value* wherever they see fit.

No need to beg, no need to slave away at a job ... just take what you need and give what you want to. A heaven on earth !
👍  
properties (23)
authormetama
permlinkre-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t220851804z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"users":["indigoocean"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 22:08:51
last_update2018-12-23 22:08:51
depth1
children2
last_payout2018-12-30 22:08:51
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.019 HBD
curator_payout_value0.006 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length331
author_reputation165,262,757,751,752
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,288,804
net_rshares47,123,750,396
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@indigoocean ·
I would be happy to see a number of small, individual communities doing this. I think a lot of people prefer the impersonal independence of money, so that will continue so long as people don't really feel a lot of trust in others in life in general. But I think there are increasing trends towards some groups of people realizing they can create a micro-economy of their own and actually have happier, healthier lives that way.
👍  
properties (23)
authorindigoocean
permlinkre-metama-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t222715774z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 22:27:15
last_update2018-12-23 22:27:15
depth2
children1
last_payout2018-12-30 22:27:15
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length427
author_reputation83,283,947,872,393
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,289,461
net_rshares24,198,757,079
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@metama ·
#true

that is what I am working towards
properties (22)
authormetama
permlinkre-indigoocean-re-metama-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181224t034513826z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life","true"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-24 03:45:15
last_update2018-12-24 03:45:15
depth3
children0
last_payout2018-12-31 03:45:15
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length40
author_reputation165,262,757,751,752
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,298,647
net_rshares0
@newageinv ·
$0.03
It would be great but society has turned its back to the possibilities as they continue to embrace capitalism and consumerism even within the families.  Considering the taxes part alone, would make it tough as well.  Given borders and the globalization out there today, it seems all too tough to consider.

Posted using [Partiko iOS](https://steemit.com/@partiko-ios)
👍  
properties (23)
authornewageinv
permlinknewageinv-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t195032269z
categorylife
json_metadata{"app":"partiko"}
created2018-12-23 19:50:33
last_update2018-12-23 19:50:33
depth1
children1
last_payout2018-12-30 19:50:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.019 HBD
curator_payout_value0.006 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length367
author_reputation267,065,191,977,743
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,284,449
net_rshares46,602,815,639
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@indigoocean ·
I think we get into trouble when we try to think of things we can do that everyone must be doing. When we try to imagine scaling before we've even experienced success with the test case. For that reason I'm deliberately focusing away from scalable solutions. 

I'm asking only what size WOULD it work at, given your personal temperament, requirements, etc. 

Does it work that way for 1 family for you, yours? If so, could a second family share resources with yours, such that perhaps one man from one family and one woman from the other worked for money, and everyone else worked within the 2 family unit in other ways to get everyone's needs met? Might any enhancement be brought to your life if you could pull this off?

I think solutions that work at scale are not the only ones that are worth pursuing.
properties (22)
authorindigoocean
permlinkre-newageinv-newageinv-re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t205154506z
categorylife
json_metadata{"tags":["life"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2018-12-23 20:51:54
last_update2018-12-23 20:51:54
depth2
children0
last_payout2018-12-30 20:51:54
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length807
author_reputation83,283,947,872,393
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,286,390
net_rshares0
@steem-ua ·
#### Hi @indigoocean!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your **UA** account score is currently 4.752 which ranks you at **#1448** across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has dropped 4 places in the last three days (old rank 1444).

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 192 contributions, your post is ranked at **#100**.
##### Evaluation of your UA score:

* Some people are already following you, keep going!
* The readers appreciate your great work!
* You have already shown user engagement, try to improve it further.


**Feel free to join our [@steem-ua Discord server](https://discord.gg/KpBNYGz)**
properties (22)
authorsteem-ua
permlinkre-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181224t103738z
categorylife
json_metadata"{"app": "beem/0.20.14"}"
created2018-12-24 10:37:39
last_update2018-12-24 10:37:39
depth1
children0
last_payout2018-12-31 10:37:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length687
author_reputation23,214,230,978,060
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,311,968
net_rshares0
@steemhq ·
re-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181224t143345190z
![YOU JUST GOT UPVOTED](https://www.steemhq.com/CommunityBotUpvote.png)

**Congratulations,**
you just received a 11.02% upvote from @steemhq - Community Bot!

***Wanna join and receive free upvotes yourself?***
Vote for `steemhq.witness` on [Steemit](https://steemit.com/~witnesses) or directly on [SteemConnect](https://steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=steemhq.witness&approve=1 "This link will take you away from steemit.com") and join the [Community Witness](https://www.steemhq.com/witness).
![](https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://www.steemhq.com/steemhq_voting.gif)

This service was brought to you by [SteemHQ.com](https://www.steemhq.com)
properties (22)
authorsteemhq
permlinkre-indigoocean-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181224t143345190z
categorylife
json_metadata{"app":"communitybot/1.1.0"}
created2018-12-24 14:33:45
last_update2018-12-24 14:33:45
depth1
children0
last_payout2018-12-31 14:33:45
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length667
author_reputation4,219,992,220,673
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,321,441
net_rshares0
@steemitboard ·
Congratulations @indigoocean! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

<table><tr><td>https://steemitimages.com/60x60/http://steemitboard.com/notifications/postallweek.png</td><td>You published a post every day of the week</td></tr>
</table>

<sub>_[Click here to view your Board](https://steemitboard.com/@indigoocean)_</sub>
<sub>_If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word_ `STOP`</sub>


To support your work, I also upvoted your post!


**Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:**
<table><tr><td><a href="https://steemit.com/christmas/@steemitboard/christmas-challenge-send-a-gift-to-to-your-friends"><img src="https://steemitimages.com/64x128/http://i.cubeupload.com/kf4SJb.png"></a></td><td><a href="https://steemit.com/christmas/@steemitboard/christmas-challenge-send-a-gift-to-to-your-friends">Christmas Challenge - Send a gift to to your friends</a></td></tr></table>

> Support [SteemitBoard's project](https://steemit.com/@steemitboard)! **[Vote for its witness](https://v2.steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=steemitboard&approve=1)** and **get one more award**!
properties (22)
authorsteemitboard
permlinksteemitboard-notify-indigoocean-20181224t044916000z
categorylife
json_metadata{"image":["https://steemitboard.com/img/notify.png"]}
created2018-12-24 04:49:15
last_update2018-12-24 04:49:15
depth1
children0
last_payout2018-12-31 04:49:15
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,209
author_reputation38,975,615,169,260
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,300,523
net_rshares0
@tts ·
To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.
[![](https://s18.postimg.org/51o0kpijd/play200x46.png)](http://ec2-52-72-169-104.compute-1.amazonaws.com/indigoocean__how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be.mp3)
Brought to you by [@tts](https://steemit.com/tts/@tts/introduction). If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.
properties (22)
authortts
permlinkre-how-large-can-your-idea-of-family-be-20181223t174127
categorylife
json_metadata""
created2018-12-23 17:41:27
last_update2018-12-23 17:41:27
depth1
children0
last_payout2018-12-30 17:41:27
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length359
author_reputation-4,535,154,553,995
root_title"How Large Can Your Idea of 'Family' Be?"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id77,280,298
net_rshares0