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Questioning the Assertion: More Users Means More Dumps by inertia

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· @inertia ·
$49.15
Questioning the Assertion: More Users Means More Dumps
The assertion is, as we onboard, this will put downward pressure on HIVE.  It's somewhat intuitive, but this assertion should be supported by evidence.

Usually, the only response I get is, "Why wouldn't it?"

This attitude contributes to the lack of marketing.  Why market something that will only result in downward pressure on the asset?

I would like to investigate the claim itself.  If my method is wrong, I would like to know where my faulty evidence is.

We should also keep in mind that any model we use will still be wrong because we're trying to model a network effect (positive or negative).

Strictly speaking, a model should be able to mitigate how wrong it is by error bars.  It doesn't have to nail the prediction.  Just model a possible outcome and see how far off it was from reality.

---

Let's start with definitions.  What do we mean by "dump"?  Do we mean transfers to an exchange?  This is reasonable.  If a user transfers assets to an exchange, the next likely step is to sell.  Let's ignore the rest of the implications around order book depth.  Just because someone sells doesn't mean the price will go down.  If there is simultaneous interest in buying as selling, the price doesn't drop.  But we're ignoring that, for the moment.

All we want to know is when an author is paid, are they likely to then transfer their liquid rewards to an exchange?

How do we determine this?

Well, we can look at the virtual operation known as `author_reward` which is represented by HiveSQL as `VOAuthorRewards`.

```sql
SELECT COUNT(*) FROM dbo.VOAuthorRewards r
  WHERE r.timestamp BETWEEN '2021-03-01' AND '2021-03-08'
=> 26665
```

In 26665 reward operations, we can also determine how many authors there were:

```sql
SELECT COUNT(DISTINCT(r.author))
  FROM dbo.VOAuthorRewards r
  WHERE r.timestamp BETWEEN '2021-03-01' AND '2021-03-08'
=> 4785
```

For that period, we know that the HIVE payout was zero.  So we can look at the HBD payout instead:

```sql
SELECT SUM(r.hbd_payout) FROM dbo.VOAuthorRewards r
  WHERE r.timestamp BETWEEN '2021-03-01' AND '2021-03-08'
=> 26416.2870
```

So we know that `26416.287 HBD` was paid in liquid rewards to 4785 authors.

This is what the price did in that timeframe:

<center><img src="https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/inertia/23tSzWNHEqiPAueGNbxtej3hiqaeDavXN9NgUkVNPJn6YLiByxCP79PDqYQnArn2QZP3A.png" /></center>

How many of those authors transferred HBD to Bittrex or Blocktrades?

```sql
SELECT COUNT(DISTINCT(t.[from])) FROM dbo.TxTransfers t
  WHERE t.timestamp BETWEEN '2021-03-01' AND '2021-03-08'
  AND t.[to] IN('bittrex', 'blocktrades')
  AND t.amount_symbol = 'HBD'
  AND t.[from] IN (
      SELECT r.author
      FROM dbo.VOAuthorRewards r
        WHERE r.timestamp BETWEEN '2021-03-01' AND '2021-03-08'
  )
=> 115
```

And how much HBD are we talking about?

```sql
SELECT SUM(t.amount) FROM dbo.TxTransfers t
  WHERE t.timestamp BETWEEN '2021-03-01' AND '2021-03-08'
  AND t.[to] IN('bittrex', 'blocktrades')
  AND t.amount_symbol = 'HBD'
  AND t.[from] IN (
      SELECT r.author
      FROM dbo.VOAuthorRewards r
        WHERE r.timestamp BETWEEN '2021-03-01' AND '2021-03-08'
  )
=> 3460.5970
```

---

Bottom line, `26416.287 HBD` was paid but only `3460.597 HBD` was sent to Bittrex or Blocktrades.

Remember, we're only asking if authors are generally likely to dump (e.g., we're *not* investigating the peg, here).  I would think, if authors dump, they would most likely dump HBD.  So the line of reasoning has become:

"More users means more dumps."

"Are you sure?"

"Why wouldn't it?"

"Because only ~ 3% of authors 'dumped' ~ 14% of the HBD earned in this one week I looked at."
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 36 others
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vote details (100)
@antisocialist ·
$1.47
What do you think of the poor tax making stake exponentially less valuable the farther you are from 400k hp?

Everybody with less than 250k hp lose more than 25% of the value of their stake.
I think that needs to change.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@inertia ·
$0.05
In what sense?
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@antisocialist · (edited)
I'd eliminate it entirely, but just changing the target from 16hive to 3hive would likely do almost the same.

Just to be clear, if you are the only vote on a post, and you don't have at least 400k hp, you vote's value is reduced, and thereby the value of your stake.
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@blockchainyouth ·
$1.58
I gotta agree, if anyone’s like me (which I’m sure there’s more than a few) their more focused on getting their HP up than immediately dumping what they’ve earned, those numbers back it up perfectly
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@inertia ·
$0.05
The bitcoin maximalist theory is a much better explanation than the "milker" theory.  And it would imply that the smaller accounts probably wouldn't touch their balances at all.  It's just too much trouble, what with the fees and taxes.

Why would they?
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@blockchainyouth ·
Damn straight! I mean here in the U.K. god knows what we’re supposed to in regards to that either it’s a bloody minefield - much better to watch it stack :))
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@palasatenea ·
$1.60
I've never sent Hive to an exchange, and I don't have any intention to do it for a while, should be an absurd price in Hive to consider it.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@palasatenea/re-inertia-78gha7)
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@bluerobo ·
$1.92
Are these the same people who believe a shorter powerdown period will also lead to more selling?
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@inertia ·
Perhaps it would approach doubling the sell-pressure, in their model, depending on how short the power-down period is.

I'd like to test that idea at scale.  Give users the option to select their power-down period.  Maybe if you select 13-weeks, you get the system we have now.  If you select less than 13-weeks, you lose your free down-votes.  If you select more than 13-weeks, you get more free down-votes.
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@d-pend ·
$6.63
Very interesting, nice to see someone attempting to dive into the numbers amongst the frequent muttering about people "joining to milk the platform and cash out." Seems the numbers, at least in this analysis, do not support this assertion.

Actually, unless people used STEEM back in the day or some other rare platform that enables "monetization" of content, they are probably more likely overall to go through at least an infatuation stage of variable length in which they are grateful to have earned something on a platform for once.

Most users I see that make a decent amount from posting rewards tend to keep some stake powered up; I think the ones that power down and dump everything are in the minority.
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@enforcer48 ·
$1.43
> Bottom line, 26416.287 HBD was paid but only 3460.597 HBD was sent to Bittrex or Blocktrades.

What about places like Upbit or Binance?
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@inertia ·
$0.06
Fair question.  But if you look at the timeframe I'm using, those exchanges do not really contribute enough volume to affect the price.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@felixxx ·
$1.41
Wait, What?

>as we onboard, this will put downward pressure on HIVE

Who said that?
The more people use it, the less valuable it becomes?
Should it not be the other way around?
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@inertia ·
The way I understand the "reasoning" is, if you have Alice and Bob, splitting the reward pool between themselves, you can reason that Alice and Bob would avoid dumping on each other.  They know each other and they don't want to upset the other because they're friends.

Scale that up to Chip, who is Bob's friend of a friend, who Alice doesn't know very well, so she starts to suspect that Chip doesn't have Alice and Bob's best interest at heart.

Scale that up to Eve, who Alice and Bob don't know at all.  They don't even know how Eve found the platform.  So Alice and Bob start getting paranoid about Eve's intentions.
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@felixxx ·
$0.09
The way it plays out: if you have ... uhm ... Stella Belletti and Papa Pepe ...
They split the reward pool between them and dump everything.
They put a constant downward pressure on the price.
Now Johnny Smallstake joins; Whether he dumps everything or just a fraction: Everything is better than those early adaptor assholes.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@nonameslefttouse ·
$1.62
*And a very strange thing happens when more focus is placed on attracting consumers and their disposable income...*
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vote details (2)
@inertia ·
![everyone has hive.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/inertia/EoeD3N4tX8TrdBgNBeqR4mA6RTQohr1iaMi1daUon4v6nwY2RDNsVvyY7f7QGP7W9dv.jpg)
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@whatsup · (edited)
$1.38
I've heard a case being made that the users didn't invest.  The users were holding and often powering up.  The users aren't the investors though.. they are there to attract activity and investors.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@whatsup/re-inertia-6av15q)
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@inertia ·
$0.16
And if anything, these queries support that line of thinking, unfortunately.  

But the good thing is, at least this line of thinking is part of the design.  I.e., the reward pool limits the "damage" that these other "non-investing-power-uppers" do.  It only erodes the original investors if those investors do not also power-up.

I guess you have to wonder, after so long, why do the people who complain about these other people stick around?

In reality, the people who "don't invest" actually are investing.  If *they* stick around, they're the ones putting their time and effort into the system.

Classic projection.
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