### _Maybe I’m being as naïve as when I thought we could discuss veganism vs meat eating in a civilised manner? Oh that’s right, most of us DID feel that we could discuss it in an adult manner. But is this subject even more volatile?_ <center></center> This post has come about because someone just called me a bigot for using the word “him”. I wrote a long response, then thought, “Actually, this is an important discussion to be having, so this needs to be a post.” [EDIT: Since a lot of what I said has been misunderstood, I’m going to make a few clarifications, while I still can. The original text will be kept, for the sake of transparency. (No pun about the TV show Transparent is intended, but possibly that’s where some of my info on trans identities has come from.)] ## First, the back story How far back is back? I probably don’t need to go back as far as the noticeable rise in prominence of the LGBT community, and the social consequences of that. I’m sure most people will have noticed that. So I’ll just go back to the post and comments in question. The [post was by @atreyuserver](https://steemit.com/feminism/@atreyuserver/this-is-not-my-body), about how when she moved from Venezuela to Argentina, she noticed a much greater acceptance of other gendered people, specifically a child in her daughter’s class who was biologically male but identified as female. She was using the words man and woman, and I find it troubling that children would be regarded in the same context as adults, as far as deciding what their final gender / sexuality might be. ## So my response was: > At 6 years old, he/she is not a man or a woman, he/she is a child. In the up to 12 years before he/she becomes an adult, many things may change. > I'm all for acceptance of everybody's gender / sexuality, whatever it may be, but it scares me that people think it's normal for a child to decide they are trans at such a young age. > _“With love and simplicity everything is possible, because the most valuable struggle of people is to reach and celebrate their right to be ..., simply BE.”_ > If this child decides later that he is actually a man after all (which he may well do, if there is no pressure on him to continue to be trans) I hope the same sentiment will apply. ## In a later comment, I went on to say: > I agree with you that having the freedom to express yourself, and to be fully accepted, is wonderful. Everybody is entitled to that, whether homosexual, heterosexual, hermaphrodite, bisexual, transgender, transvestite or something different. > I support equality for all, not one group favoured over another. I also support a person's right to explore different parts of their gender identity / sexuality at different times, and change their minds about how they identify. I've seen people attacked on Steemit, because they're not the "right" kind of transgender. That to me is very sad. <center></center> ## The next response was a comment from @tygertyger > You say you support it and yet you make sure to call her a him! So you really do not support the rights of all. You only support them if they fit your box! Fact is that most grown up trans people will tell you that they knew from very early childhood that they were trans and they suffered horribly having people tell them they were not! And yes there are the occasional crazy parents that push an agenda but you have crazy people who push crazy religions on kinds and other stuff as well! This makes trans kids no more or no less real! and yes you also have the occasional child who changes their mind but most do not, and yet so many of you people hang on the minority ignoring the vast majority as if your life depended on it! Puberty blockers are there to give a child time to make sure but it will not kill you or anyone else to allow a child to live in the gender they need to express it might however kill the child if you do not. So stop being a bigot .. ## Was I being a bigot? I truly don’t think I was, but maybe I’m mistaken. After all, my knowledge of the LGBT community is not as good as someone who is part of it. But surely the way to greater understanding is to be able to talk about it, without name calling? <center></center> ## My response > I typed quite a long reply to you, and then realised this is a discussion that needs to be had a bit more widely. So I'll turn what I wrote into a post and drop the link here in a day or two. But in short, calling each other names doesn't open up any kind of discussion or understanding. I have no interest in putting other people down. If I spend my time discussing something, I want it to be in an open minded way that increases communication. I hope we can do that, it will just be a little later. ## My longer reply _First, I want to stress that this is my current opinion, but I want to engender wider discussion of this issue, and I’m open to the possibility that my opinion could change with greater knowledge._ "Him" is a word, not an attitude of mind. Him/he/man are words that have been used for centuries to refer to humankind of all sexes. Saying it shouldn't be so doesn't make it not so, or allow you to infer anything about the attitudes of those using them. You think I'm being bigoted. I think you're being either pedantic, overly sensitive or looking for offence. But let's put those personal opinions aside and talk about what actually matters. First off, I didn't say "him" to the child's face, but in the spirit of having a conversation with an adult. I never said trans kids weren't real. I never said anyone should be forced into anything. All I said was that was whatever his/her FINAL decision was, it should be honoured. How is that bigoted? ## A question for you that has been puzzling me. Please take this is the spirit it's meant, of increasing my understanding, not as an attack. Through most of my life, the shortened word "trannie" has meant a transvestite. In other words, a man who likes (no, needs) to periodically dress in woman's clothing. Such a person may be homosexual, or heterosexual, or MAY be transgender too but is not necessarily so. Agreed so far? Nowadays, there seems to be no talk of transvestites, only of transgender. Of course transgender has been around for a long time as well, but it wasn't as common as lesbian, gay, bi, transvestite. [EDIT: Do I really have to spell out that I wasn’t saying transvestite and transgender were the same thing? I was saying that they are so different that I would like it if people always used clear language to differentiate them. On another note, thanks to the commenter that referred to transvestites as cross dressers. That’s an easy to understand clarification. The commenter who referred to transvestites as drag queens and later as frank’n’furter, on the other hand, seemed disrespectful and inaccurate. Here’s how I would see the relationship between these categories: • Cross dresser = a person of either biological sex who sometimes or always likes to dress in a manner that is more the societal norm for the other sex (ie quite a large group) • Transvestite = someone who has a psychological need to cross dress at times (ie a subset of cross dressers) • Drag queen = a more flamboyant subset of cross dressers, who may or may not be transvestite. Not saying I’m right, just saying that’s how I see it.] <center></center> ### My question - how do you know that a child who is not yet sexual is transgender and not transvestite? Children are suggestible. They can have trouble distinguishing between what is real and what isn’t. I’m not saying that there are no trans children who correctly identify themselves, but that there could also be a lot who jump to an incorrect conclusion. As a society, do we not need to protect those children, just as much as we need to protect truly trans children? [EDIT: I still stand by this question. From the outside, how can we be sure a child is trans? Yes, a trans child may well know exactly what they are at a young age. But many other children might THINK they are the other gender, for a variety of other reasons, including being a (potential) transvestite.] ## And that sparks another train of thought. Let's take the example of a boy who likes to wear dresses and has a more feminine attitude in a lot of ways. Some possible scenarios: • He is left to go through puberty naturally, he finds he is actually heterosexual, and just likes to dress as a woman sometimes. In these (hopefully) more enlightened times, this is something a female marriage partner could understand and accept as an integral part of their marriage. Good result. • He goes through puberty, and finds he isn’t drawn to women as sexual partners, but he also doesn't feel the need to live as a woman all the time. He has gay relationships, sometimes lives as a woman, sometimes as a man. More enlightened times, etc, etc. Good result. [EDIT - with hindsight, I see I was sloppy and misleading here. What I meant and should have been more specific on was: In these (hopefully) more enlightened times, this would be an understood and accepted lifestyle choice.] • He/she goes through puberty, and finds she still has a deep need to live life as a woman. Surely she can still go through the process of reassignment? Not what I would call a good result, exactly, as the physical trauma of that would be substantial, but an acceptable one from her point of view, maybe the only acceptable one. • He/she makes the decision to take puberty blockers, so never finds out for sure what changes, if any, puberty would bring. He/she goes through reassignment, physical trauma, and NEVER knows whether there was actually another viable option. Now this is the scenario that worries me. How is this a good result? [EDIT: Please note I said SOME. I am aware that there are many other potential outcomes, but as far I can see, these are all still possibilities.] ## Another question It would appear that there is a huge increase in transgender people. There is no biological or evolutionary reason for that that I can think of. So what is the reason? Investigating the reasons isn't attacking the people affected. If one person is trans, that's how they are and it needs to be accepted. But if a whole generation is trans, there is probably something wrong, and it needs to be talked about. [EDIT: I’m not saying a whole generation is at this time. I’m saying what if that were to happen? Could we talk about the reasons then? Or shall we talk about them now? I note that one commenter referred to it as a birth defect. I was surprised that’s how the LGBT community regards it. But if so, all the more reason to look into why it’s happening.] ## In summary I think most reasonable people would agree with acceptance for all, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. But that doesn’t mean we can’t openly discuss why this is happening. <center></center> There is a difference between acceptance of the reality and difficulty of some people’s lives, and getting bent out of shape because someone used the “wrong” word or said the wrong thing out of ignorance. And there is a difference between acceptance and pushing an agenda. Between acceptance and creating an expectation. ## What do you think? Am I being a bigot? If so, why? Can we discuss the many aspects of this without taking offence and getting defensive? ### Thanks for reading Images from Pixabay or by myself or @sift666, unless otherwise stated. #### _[Follow me](https://steemit.com/@kiwideb) for more health, nutrition, food, lifestyle and recipe posts. For an archive of 2016 & 2017 posts, by category, [see my last post of 2017]( https://steemit.com/life/@kiwideb/looking-back-over-2017-and-forward-to-2018)._ https://i.imgsafe.org/3d20dc99c0.jpg #### _Contact me in SteemitChat to ask about one on one nutritional coaching or EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) sessions by Skype. (Then put a comment on my most recent post, so I know to find you.) Steem, other altcoins or Paypal accepted._ #### _If you’re from New Zealand (Aotearoa) and are looking for other kiwis, use #teamnz as one of your tags // check out other posts with #kiwi or #teamnz tags // follow @teamnz // or join the [South Pacific channel on Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/TAavTrB). There is [an old list of kiwis on this post]( https://steemit.com/newzealand/@kiwideb/wellington-blockchain-meetup-updated-steemit-kiwis-list-nz-meetup)._ 
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
permlink | let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can |
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> At 6 years old, he/she is not a man or a woman, he/she is a child. In the up to 12 years before he/she becomes an adult, many things may change. No, but he or she is probably a boy or a girl. > I'm all for acceptance of everybody's gender / sexuality, whatever it may be, but it scares me that people think it's normal for a child to decide they are trans at such a young age. Did you wait until you were 18 to decide if you were a boy or a girl?
author | ancapbarbie |
---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180325t172158088z |
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Since my answer is "no, I never thought about it" I'm guessing that the point you're making is that someone who never had to think about it wouldn't understand. Point taken, and thanks for doing it politely. My point, which maybe was made clumsily, was that a decision made at such a young age might be changed later on. I accept that it also might not be, and maybe I didn't make that clear.
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
permlink | re-ancapbarbie-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180326t071654458z |
category | lgbt |
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The point I'm making is that you knew whatever it is you knew long before you were 18, just like that trans kid. The point I'm making is that there is a diverse spectrum of human experiences, and good for it 'cause homogeneity would soon lead to the extinction of our species. The point I'm making is that it's not a decision; or at least if it is, what I considered clumsy was the implication that it is a decision with as much consideration as whether or not to take an umbrella today.
author | ancapbarbie |
---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-re-ancapbarbie-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180328t001925426z |
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There was a teenage girl at my sons school that wanted to be a boy, chopped his/her hair and changed name, most people treated him/her like a boy, but when someone said something they didn't like they where a girl, so very confusing for others when they wanted they would change their gender depending on their mood. The teenager changed school due to they believed they were getting teased. Friends didn't think they were, the thing with teenagers is it's tricky for everyone, but you have to take into account there will always be some that will want to try want they want because it's in the media, others it's their life and very real. Everyone takes things differently we are all unique, others may brush stuff off and not get offended, you could say the same thing to someone else, it may offend them. Like this post I don't think you have done anything wrong, we are all allowed our own opion, we may come from NZ the first county that allowed same sex marriages, we also ask questions as freedom of speech is still valued here. I googled how may genders are there, there is so many different answers so you might be learning the wrong info, We are taught ask a question if you don't know and education yourself that way, the internet isn't always going to give you the correct information.
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---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180327t070450492z |
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> but you have to take into account there will always be some that will want to try .. because it's in the media, others it's their life and very real Yes, that's exactly the thing that concerns me. For every one true trans gender person, how many may think they are because its trendy, or because they fall into some other category in the LGBT spectrum, or for some other reason? Being concerned for those people doesn't make any concern for the true trans person any less. So I still stand by what I've said, or more accurately I stand by what I meant. Some of what I said could maybe have been said more clearly and I want to make time to add some edits (but leaving the original statements there for transparency) to clarify.
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
permlink | re-biglipsmama-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180327t090831142z |
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That's for surer it is concerning that there are some like anything that gets highlighted people want to give it a try but are doing it for the wrong reasons than someone that it is very real and serious for them.
author | biglipsmama |
---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-re-biglipsmama-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180327t215110133z |
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The old ways were better. Man referred to all of mankind. Women referred to women. At least you could be certain when you used the word she. Of all the gender pronouns the LGBT+ support community has come up with, no one has come up with a great neuter people pronoun. When someone does, i will use it exclusively. But, what we have today isn't about acceptance, its about domination and control. A group of people demanding that i treat them different / special. Well, i really do not care about your gender unless i am interested in dating you. So, 99% of the time, i really do not care. If you are a GOOD friend, and ask me to use a different pronoun... i would probably stop talking to you because it is beyond my ability. I already have a tough time remembering a name, of my good friends, longer than 2 seconds. So, imho, this whole debacle is just an extension of feminism claiming victim status. And forcing it in people's face will just make everything worse. In all the discussion i have seen on this, i have yet to see anyone come up with a pattern of behavior that is acceptable. Usually what i see is that people bending over backwards are berated for not bending over enough. This will end badly. And, i am really concerned with my gay, bisexual and lesbian friends. Because there is going to be blowback, and my concern is that TPTshouldn'tB will be rounding up LGBT as the first group to go to concentration camps, Just as it was jews 80 years ago.
author | builderofcastles |
---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180324t235152860z |
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The old ways were certainly simpler. I pretty much agree with everything you've said here. Your concern about your LGBT friends is probably not misplaced, and I think there are other aspects of this whole issue that we need to be concerned about as well.
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
permlink | re-builderofcastles-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180325t085431367z |
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author | sift666 |
---|---|
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I have no problems when somebody is transgender, gay or lesbian. I have problems with the unfair promotions. There is a lot of promotion everywere in the western world and there is no promotion for heterosexuality. I am sure there are a lot of children and adults brainwashed and pushed in a box (not ALL of them!). It is the same with: I want to be that famous football player or I want to be that famous popstar. Sorry for this reaction ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, this is how I see it. If you are a transgender you still want to be a boy or girl, man or woman and not in between.
author | gerben |
---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180325t222059989z |
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.gif) What I want to say is: Do we really know who we are or is there too much influence from outside? They do it smart, they make it almost impossible to give your opinion these days (only their opinion).
author | gerben |
---|---|
permlink | re-gerben-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180326t025439779z |
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That was my initial point, right at the outset. If a child is truly trans, of course they need support and acceptance. But as a society, we need to be sure we're not pressuring children to be what they think adults want or expect. This is not putting anyone down; just saying equal rights for all. Is that so bad?
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
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👌👍👍👍
author | gwenbyyy |
---|---|
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As someone who has taught Sociology and classes discussing gender and sexuality one thing I've learned is that language is a very tricky thing. Even though you are tolerant of diversity and supportive of those who are transgender or members of the LGBT community, using the wrong language happens and some take it the wrong way. It's a very hard topic to discuss especially when some might take use of the wrong terms as insulting when the original comment wasn't meant to be insulting or discriminatory. Sometimes no matter how sensitive you are in wording what you say, you might use the wrong language making someone angry.
author | marxrab |
---|---|
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Yes, I know you're right, and that's such a shame. Getting insulted or angry over semantics stops any chance of discussion and understanding. I also maintain that the person using the "wrong" language did not make the person hearing it angry. The person hearing it made themselves angry. Sometimes they may have a history that makes it difficult to be anything other than angry, but it is still ultimately their choice how they feel about it.
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
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It's NOT semantics it shows your subconscious inability or unwillingness to wrap your mind around the issue this is the whole point of grievance if you only could understand how insulting your above post is and some of the things you say, but you are totally oblivious and it is infuriating because you then act like your the poor hurt victim... because you have already basically peed on the who subject slapped trans people in the face with the things you say and then are totally oblivious to why LGBT people bite you ...
author | tygertyger |
---|---|
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Au contraire. You are not a bigot! I don't have a lot of experience with trans anything. I have met one man who is becoming a woman and liked this PERSON just fine. No issues. I wish everyone could simply be accepting. We are not all the same nor should we be expected to be.
author | peggyhazelwood |
---|---|
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Thanks Peggy. That sums it up nicely.
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
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Okay, so, first of all, I do understand where you are coming from. Obviously, you are somewhat misinformed on some issues, and that is okay. You don't seem to be coming from a place of hate or wrong-doing, but that does not mean all that you have said is correct or alright. In my honest opinion, this post does come across as a bit of an attack and trying to bank on 'sensationalising' both being LGBT supportive and being called a bigot. For someone who would be truly interested in learning, I would suggest research rather than listing opinions and asking for a discussion, but I guess it pays better to be a little controversial on steemit. There are children who know that they are trans. It's reality. There are no gender-reassignment surgeries for kids, only puberty blockers which block hormones. The worst case scenario is that a child identifies as a different gender and takes puberty blockers, and as an adult reverses their decision. It doesn't happen frequently, but if it does, I can assure you, that they would still be much happier and healthier than if they are transgender and denied the right for puberty blockers or expressing themselves in their authentic identity. This is not just for transgender kids, but all kids have a responsibility and freedom to be who they are, and when you take that, you are taking much more than just their appearance. As someone who wants to be a parent in the future, I would rather have a child who is confused and unsure of their decisions, learning that they have responsibility over their lives, rather than me deciding on them who they are and ending up harming their mental state and being forever hated for not allowing them to be who they are. As for the 'he/she' argument, I prefer to use 'they' if I am unsure of what to use. It's a general term. We don't need to get stuck on the patriarchal 'he'. This is not just related to LGBT population, but even women. Let's say I went to talk to the manager. If I say 'he', you know I am being sexist and asserting that most likely, the manager is a male. However, it would be much more respectful to everyone if I say they, or "the manager". I heard you comment that "The old ways were certainly simpler." The old ways were women were unable to vote, they are slaves at home, servants to their men. They would not be allowed to express their opinion like you are today. Our freedom of speech comes with an increased responsibility to know what we are talking about. I think the comparison between transvestites and transgender kids is uncalled for. If someone enjoys wearing dresses, let them wear dresses. If they only enjoy doing it periodically, they would try out other clothes as well, but if not, I doubt you will have to worry about it. Let everyone express themselves as they like. >"But if a whole generation is trans, there is probably something wrong, and it needs to be talked about." This is the most problematic statement of all. There is something wrong with being considered as a second-class citizen or an inferior subspecies. There are no whole generations that are trans to even justify this question. One of the biggest reasons that there are many LGBT people nowadays is that a lot of cis-heterosexual couples have a lot of babies. With such an overpopulation on the Earth, there will be increased variety. The real environmental and demographic problem in today's world is arguably heterosexual couples who have many children. Overpopulation is one of the biggest risks to Earth, and even with the introduction of contraception, these hetero people keep breeding and infesting the Earth. For those that truly care about not just our race but also our planet, please, hunt these heterosexual people and stop them from breeding so rapidly!
author | poetrybyjeremy |
---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180325t105713388z |
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Thank you for your courteous response @poetrybyjeremy. Although I can see that some of what I intended to say has been misunderstood (and I accept the fault for that is mine), you have politely given me some things to think about.
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
permlink | re-poetrybyjeremy-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180326t084306649z |
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That's okay, we all learn from our mistakes. As a cis-male, I admit that I am not an expert either. I am pretty sure I have said the wrong things or not known the right things, and probably still lack awareness and information on certain regards. :)
author | poetrybyjeremy |
---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-re-poetrybyjeremy-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180326t085500840z |
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hi @kiwideb. Interesting discussion to raise. I agree with most of what @poetrybyjeremy has said here ^ I think one of the reasons some people raised in a heteronormative world perceive an increase in trans appearance people is because it's becoming safer now for ALL people to wear the clothes they want to wear. It's still not safe in many places of course, but it's a lot safer than it was even 30 years ago. I also think that more people just enjoy wearing more variety of clothes, including things that express and play with gender identity. I think most people are on a spectrum of sexuality as well. I don't know much about puberty blockers- I'd like to find out more about the pros and cons and hear from people who have taken them and those who haven't (and their families & loved ones).
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I appreciate @poetrybyjeremy 's replies and think he makes some good points. > one of the reasons some people raised in a heteronormative world perceive an increase in trans appearance people is because it's becoming safer now for ALL people to wear the clothes they want to wear That might be why some people perceive the increase. What I'm (maybe mistakenly) seeing is nothing to do with clothes. You know me well enough to know that nobody cares less what people wear than I do. If I have given the impression this is about appearances, I've expressed myself extremely badly!
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
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Agenda 2030 is in full swing...  
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Thank you! You said it very well. Your questions and concerns are the same as mine. One of my friends from high school started a similar discussion on FB, because she was concerned when she read a news article about parents allowing their pre-teen child to undergo gender re-assignment surgery. She likened it to child abuse, as it is a very permanent change, and children may change their minds as to what they want. I've read stories myself of people who had the surgery young and later regretted it. And, science has shown our logic and emotional centers of the brain do not fully mature until we're around twenty-five years old (which is why I think no one should get married before that age). Everyone who responded to my friend agreed with her. We all also agreed that parents should fully support children who express transgender identities and allow them to explore those identities with the way they dress and present themselves, without allowing them to make a permanent, surgical change, or use puberty blockers, until they are 18 (though twenty-five would be better). That seemed like a reasonable answer to everyone on that thread, and there were a lot of responses to it. And, we are all pretty open-minded people, as a group. In high school, we were the "drama kids," the ones who took the acting classes and put on the shows, and quite a few of our peers were gay, and that was totally cool. I dated a few of them before they came out, enough that it earned me the reputation of turning guys gay, which I still get teased about sometimes when we all get together....even by the gay guys themselves. :) But, we ALL thought it was a bad idea to let a child make the decision to use puberty blockers or undergo gender re-assignment surgery. Wait until they are grown up for that, where they can make a more informed decision on their own. Until then, support them in any other way you can in expressing their preferred gender identity, whether it changes or stays the same. That's what a loving parent would do. It's like not letting a kid get a tattoo or piercing until they are grown up and able to really understand the implications of that decision. They can wear temporary tattoos and clip-on piercings until then. And, I have the same question as you as to why the current generation of kids seems to have so many that are identifying as transgender, compared to other generations. I often wonder if it is a fad, which is another reason to make a child wait until they are grown up before making permanent changes. So, long answer short, @kiwideb, no, you are NOT a bigot.
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I agree that reassignment surgery on a child is abuse. I was originally thinking 18 as a minimum age, or maybe 21. But when talking to my nephew who is in his 20s about this, he came right out and said he was an idiot till about 23 or 24, so I think I agree with you on 25. With full freedom to identify and live however you please, is it so bad to wait till 25 for an irrevocable surgery? My suspicion of the whys is a combination of nutritional and environmental toxins, and societal expectation, and would take up another whole post.
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No one get reassignment surgery as a child!YOu need to research this the misinformation spread here is insane! and also Insulting because this information is liberally available in the net!
author | tygertyger |
---|---|
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<i>"My question - how do you know that a child who is not yet sexual is transgender and not transvestite?"</i> What you know as transvestite is now commonly referred to as drag queen. These are men of any sexual orientation who like to dress up as female. They enjoy playing a woman and playing with the gendrole but are 100% secure in their manhood and gender. A child might enjoy wearing the clothes of the opposite sex but they do not want to be the opposite sex that it's totally different kettle of fish. A transgender child feels so uncomfortable in their biological skin that they often result to self mutilation. This is not dress up or a tomboy phase. These are kids who actually go and try to cut off body parts at a very very young age and would rather die then hit puberty. It is profoundly different!
author | tygertyger |
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<a href="https://discord.gg/rXENHmb"><img src="https://steemitimages.com/DQmW1NKA8XygdJzHidCbnx8o6SsFDKirS3CYrwRLYmRkhWe/teamnz.jpg"></a><br><i>This is a curation bot for TeamNZ. Please join our AUS/NZ community on <a href="https://discord.gg/GjSqbNx">Discord</a>.<br>For any inquiries/issues about the bot please contact @cryptonik.</i>
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You edited your reply which makes me question your integrity. Had you posted he/she from the beginning I would have been annoyed but never have reacted as I did . You did not you used "he" throughout your reply no"she" in sight! Your edited version makes you now look unjustifiably attacked do you really think this ethical ? I called you a bigot because you talked about how inclusive and understanding you were and then chose to use the male pronoun repeatedly. It made you feel comfortable which is fine but then do not wear the badge of an ally! It is ok to be confused especially as cis gendered female, with seemingly little exposure, but it is not ok to pretend you are fine with things you are obviously confused and apprehensive about. You know you did something wrong or you would have not edited it to he/she now. And yes you did not say it to the kids face but the the use of the pronoun shows disrespect toward the situation, even if you do not understand it. Now I will try to reign in my anger over some of the very ignorant statements you have in this post, as you are asking questions and that is the only way to learn. I also would like to invite @ancapbarbie & @steampunk-penny to the discussion as I am not trans and can only give you outside knowledge. I do love how you like to paint yourself as the adult in the room when the things you say are so egregiously insulting yet you demand one just swallow it. But fine while I wait for the others to show up I will touch on some points as thread after this comment.
author | tygertyger |
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I often edit a comment right after posting when it doesn't say what I intended to say, so I can't remember whether I did in this case or not. But these screenshots show my comment, including "he/she", 3 days before your reply.   @ancapbarbie & @steampunk-penny are welcome to join in the conversation. I only ask that we stick to discussion and refrain from abusing each other.
author | kiwideb |
---|---|
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Hey @kiwideb when you edit a comment, doesn't it come up edited on the comment.
author | biglipsmama |
---|---|
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you already abused the trans community with the questions you posed. In all seriousness the answers you seek are liberally available in the internet, If you are able at our age to find cryptocurrency and blockchain , which is btw a lot more obscure ,by information standards then LGBT content. Then you could have found out these things a long time ago before spouting an this horrible opinions. Goddess knows why you did not it just totally baffles!
author | tygertyger |
---|---|
permlink | re-kiwideb-re-tygertyger-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180325t101347430z |
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I am going to walk away from this post now. If you have any <b> real </b> questions leave them in the thread of this statement. This post has upset me way too much then is healthy. I as it brings back memories of my friend who killed herself because people did not care enough to understand. This is not healthy for me so I am done unless there is real use in this ...
author | tygertyger |
---|---|
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<i>"She was using the words man and woman, and I find it troubling that children would be regarded in the same context as adults</i> She wasn't and if you knew anything about latin languages you would have understood that she meant female and male this was not sexual at all, it was an obvious translation issue of a non native speaker !
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Your scenarios are all shades of wrong! Being trans has nothing to do with sexual orientation! You have trans people who are, hetero sexual, bi and gay! It has nothing to do with dressup! It has to do with looking at your body and knowing it is all shades of wrong. Imagine your consciousness would be transferred into the body of danny devito (don't get me wrong I think he is cute but he is about as feminine as my radiator) that's how trans people feel like they have been punished with some grotesques abomination and they literally have no way out because their soul lives in there. There might be women and men out there that would think you look great as danny and even fall for you but you would hate every second of it would you not ? <i>"He/she makes the decision to take puberty blockers, so never finds out for sure what changes, if any, puberty would bring. He/she goes through reassignment, physical trauma, and NEVER knows whether there was actually another viable option. Now this is the scenario that worries me. How is this a good result?</i> Those changes you hold so dear are a trans kids worst nightmare and years ago when they did not exist it was the number one reason trans kids killed the selves! Transition as an adult after puberty ensures that they never have the chance to be who they are entirely. Male to female grow and adams apple which can be shaved down but never goes away completely, it ensures that features become angular and that the bone structure will always be off even after plastic surgery. Hands and body parts grow infinitely larger. Female to Male stay smaller do not develop the more angular structure they so want to have and they grow breasts which many tras teens bind off or even mutilate because it feels so alien to them. I had a male to female friend who killed herself because she could not get puberty blockers ! Puberty blockers save lives because it gives the kids time to be 100% sure if they are trans, cis after all or just non binary. Kids who then decide to proceed develop like biological men and women all the pain and suffering is removed. Danying people this is criminal it's like forcing someone to live with a second head attached to their torso just because you think they should just deal with it! If you want to look at a successful transition with puberty blocker look up the singer Kim Petras. You only know she is trans because she is open about it others born to early or to cruel parents are not so lucky. And even after transition they often feel that what they have is just an approximation to what they could have had if the world had just cared enough and they had been protected as children.
author | tygertyger |
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permlink | re-tygertyger-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180324t231321752z |
category | lgbt |
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"<i>It would appear that there is a huge increase in transgender people. There is no biological or evolutionary reason for that that I can think of. So what is the reason?</i>" The reasons are simple - A- more people dare to actually come out of their miserable closets. B- Fewer kill themselves as there is at least hope now. C- Our world population is growing so the percentage will go up too. D- People are having children later in life and that comes with all kinds of biological variances and defects. Also fun fact as you seem fascinated by sexuality, in the animal kingdom more gay animals are born when the population gets to large natures way of trying to curb the population in a nice way. Has nothing to do with being trans, but hey thought I would throw that in for ya !
author | tygertyger |
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permlink | re-tygertyger-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180324t232047938z |
category | lgbt |
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<i>There is a difference between acceptance of the reality and difficulty of some people’s lives, and getting bent out of shape because someone used the “wrong” word or said the wrong thing out of ignorance.</i> Ignorance is not an excuse! it does not absolve you! especially when you still are defending your position in every keystroke! Fact! Being born in the wrong body is a birth defect! Fact a trans person's brain chemistry closely approximates that of the opposite sex than their biological one. Would you treat anyone else with a birth defect in the manner you disrespect trans people? Would you tell a child with a hairlip to never get surgery ? And lastly you talk about being a grown up but had you been really interested in answers to all of your questions you put up there the information is liberally found on google! So really I mistrust your motives here, especially in the light of your editing in the beginning but on the off chance you really might be just the most incredibly ignorant person on the subject I took a whole hour to answer your posts - You're Welcome ...
author | tygertyger |
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permlink | re-tygertyger-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180324t232851546z |
category | lgbt |
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I've been out all day so haven't had chance to read most of what you wrote yet. I should be able to do so tomorrow. In the meantime, thank you for the hour of your time that you spent. I hope to learn something from it. However, since you also went out of your way to be abusive, you've killed any chance that I would further engage with you and learn more. I was apparently wrong about being able to discuss without name calling. What a shame.
author | kiwideb |
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permlink | re-tygertyger-re-tygertyger-re-kiwideb-let-s-see-if-we-can-discuss-transgender-issues-without-name-calling-i-think-we-can-20180325t084625232z |
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