<div class="pull-right">http://holisticfaith.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/absolute-truth.jpg</div><p>It seems that my last post about <a href="https://steemit.com/philosophy/@kyriacos/the-good-vs-evil-delusion">The Good Vs Evil Delusion<a/> has sparked some debate in regards to whether absolute truths exist. I wrote another post about this a while back titled <a href="https://steemit.com/philosophy/@kyriacos/there-are-no-absolute-truths">There Are No Absolute Truths</a> so consider this post part 2. Before you jump to any conclusions about the validity of my premise (title) please read along. </p> <center>http://iphonescreenrepairtampa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fancyline600png1.png</center> <div class="pull-left">http://www.silabario.com.mx/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/previo_historia.jpg</div> <p><h2>Is the Statement Self Defeating?</h2> Many people claim that the statement "There Are No Absolute Truths" is self defeating. This is erroneous since the sentence itself implies that the author is aware that even his own statement cannot be absolute. Most people that assume that the statement is self defeating is because they believe that the author, much like them, holds the belief that absolute truth exist. I explain the concept of relativism in detail in another previous post <a href="https://steemit.com/philosophy/@kyriacos/blind-following-the-blind">Blind Following The blind</a> . There, I specifically detail how he human perspective will always be limited because we are doomed to follow hollow concepts that have been passed down to us. How can we possibly assert absolute truth about anything when everything in this universe is subject to change after all?</p> <center>http://iphonescreenrepairtampa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fancyline600png1.png</center> <br> <center>https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1rwJlc003sI/U4i3RQ92G4I/AAAAAAAAApo/lHpGKtcu_YQ/s1600/IMG_0752.PNG</center> <p><h2>Testing the hypothesis</h2> <p>There is a great video from Vsauce where the guy explains more or less <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNqNnUJVcVs">how under specific rules the earth is flat</a>. His entire process is scientific and provides substantial evidence. The point is that everything is a matter of perspective, even in science.</p> <p>The human experience is inherently inadequate. The tools we have created so far in order to evaluate everything around us are based on our limited biological senses. We know this because almost all other mammals have superior senses than us. Whether our brain is "better" because we have accomplished so much more than other animals is also a matter of interpretation. The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy frames this idea eloquently;</p> <br> <p><em>“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy</em> </p> <p><h2>What Is Absolutely True For You Is Not For Someone Else</h2> The debates I had so far eventually brought up Hitler (as always). Besides the fact that <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum">Ad Hitlerum<a/> is a common logical fallacy, what Hitler did was not objectively immoral or false. For millions of Germans, Japanese and Italians that supported his views what he did was objectively morally justifiable. Whether one disagrees with that is irrelevant. An objective truth has to be aspired by all people that ever lived and will ever live in our species. Yes, every single one across time and space. This is what makes the truth "absolute". </p> <br> <center>http://iphonescreenrepairtampa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fancyline600png1.png</center> <br> <center>https://depts.washington.edu/nwcenter/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/7181016_orig.jpg</center> <center><a href="https://depts.washington.edu/nwcenter/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/7181016_orig.jpg">source</a></center> <p><h2>Time & Space Change Everything</h2> 300 years ago slavery was morally justifiable for just about every single human being — sometimes even slaves themselves. It was part of daily life, the status-quo if you like. Humans could be bought and sold at will. Fast forward today and almost everyone disagrees with slavery.</p> <p>Today we can find moral absolutists say that "Murder is Objectively Immoral". This is also false since under specific circumstances (war, mental illness, self defense) murder is very much justifiable. What is true today does not necessarily mean that it will be true tomorrow and most definitely it was not true in the past. This is how subjective our world is. Even child cannibalism cannot be justified. The Inuits of Canada, when found in harsh winters resort to eating their first born in order to survive. Their morality dictates that they can always make more babies but if they die then the entire clan suffers.</p> <center>http://lexiconmag.com/content/bosch/tnbosch.jpg</center> <center><a href="http://lexiconmag.com/content/bosch/tnbosch.jpg">source</a></center> <p><h2>Resorting To Eschatology</h2> When the arguments run out, the moral absolutists summon the worst case scenario (something that involves toddlers being raped by Hitler or something equivalent). Interestingly enough, the vast majority of moral absolutists are religious. This makes sense since God provides moral guidance and rather "sets the rules for others to fear". This is nonetheless a false assumption since every religion person that I have met is their own heresy (and sometimes at different times of the same day). Moreover, if one needs the wrath of God in their life in order to be a good then this defies their perspective of absolute morality. </p> <center>http://iphonescreenrepairtampa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fancyline600png1.png</center> <div class="pull-left">https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/34/b5/a6/34b5a6a819a4d6aeef9d6eed6ec55b83.jpg</div> <h2>Being Humble</h2> I assert that there are no absolute truths and I admit that this is not a statement of absolute truth. If I hear that "John is a bad guy because he is a thief" I would have to take into consideration every single parameter from John's life in order to evaluate that statement as objectively true. If I am an anarchist and find out that John was born in an abusive environment where his government stole from him (and he just happened to take back what originally belonged to him), then John, according to my subjective evaluation is not a thief. If I am a statist and hear that John is a thief because he stole something from the government, then I would assume he is a thief. A single piece of information and our own beliefs can tumble down. This is exactly why there are no absolute truths. <p><h2>Defeating Fear</h2> From my debates in Steemit, I soon realized that the problem most people have is fear. Humans are afraid to live in a world where people believe in different versions of the truth. This is the same problem religions and governments have — hence why we have systems around us that everyone can follow.</p> <p>If you are a successful religion and/or government then after a few generations the people will believe some things as <em>absolute truths</em>. It all comes down to democracy after all. If a psychotic person believes in the absolute existence of a flying pink elephant and nobody else does, then we assert that he is wrong. If 1 billion believe that if they die heroically they get to be in a gang bang with 72 virgins in Paradise, then it becomes an absolute truth to them and only them. <center>https://saimg-a.akamaihd.net/saatchi/175282/art/236084/108180-7.jpg</center> <center><a href="https://saimg-a.akamaihd.net/saatchi/175282/art/236084/108180-7.jpg">source</a></center></p> <p><h2>The Evidence</h2> I challenge anyone to demonstrate a single absolute truth. That is something that can never change and is resistant to both time and space. The null hypothesis is that there are no absolute truths. It is the default position and it is justified both by natural law and rational thinking. For one to dispute this they have to demonstrate the <em>absoluteness</em> of their statement. As far as I am aware this is physically impossible. The universe itself is subject to change. An absolute truth can only exist if everything freezes still aka non-existence. Subjective truths is what gives rise to time and space and what sets the human experience in motion.</p> <p>Take a look at the image below. Every single statement you ever made, every single thought that ever passed from your mind is a conglomerate of other people's limited experiences. Much like a blind person who follows another blind person because he cannot perceive the entirety of the world around him. We cannot possibly capture all time and space. What you think you know or understand is nothing more than a meta-experience — a broken telephone game. The most self-defeating thought a person can entertain is to assume absolute truths. Sooner or later time will prove them wrong. I leave you with Richard Feynman's take on the subject. </p> <p>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t40aphWbo_o</p> <br> <br> <center><a href="https://steemit.com/@kyriacos"><img src="http://i64.tinypic.com/j7spk2.png"></a></center> <br>
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2 |
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I sincerely enjoyed reading this post. Great stuff as always. I agree with your perspective and have often wondered what today's criminal justice system will look like from a future perspective.
author | aaronburt |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t163419664z |
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Primitive (to say the least)
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-aaronburt-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164740411z |
category | philosophy |
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Nice post ! Thank you for your effort . 
author | akkha |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t170123901z |
category | philosophy |
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thank you for the thumps up. cool image
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
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You are welcome !
author | akkha |
---|---|
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Except in logic and math. If you define your axioms upfront and what you describe validly derives from them, within the context of that framework your conclusions can be absolutely true.
author | alexbeyman |
---|---|
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Well yeah, but that's like saying that you are correct because you are correct.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-alexbeyman-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t171043417z |
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There is nothing tautologous about logic or math. I can sort of see where you're coming from, but there's more to it than that. Meaningful truths about nature can be arrived at within those frameworks as is proved every day by physicists. There always exists the potential that one or more of the axioms is wrong, but that does not invalidate the internal consistency of the reasoning. One way I like to express this is with the thought experiment that our universe is actually an alien's dream. Does that invalidate all scientific knowledge? I would say that it doesn't. Our observations about how the universe behaves remain true, it's only the context that has changed: They are now observations about how the alien's dream behaves, rather than behaviors of an actual universe. Providing those behaviors remain consistent from one moment to the next, it is possible to begin describing them and building a model. That model is nothing but a reflection of what it describes. Even if we are mistaken about the true nature of it, the description of how it behaves remains accurate. Does this make any sense?
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---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-alexbeyman-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t171544871z |
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Wow, I'm an starting to understand the confusion that reigns in the world. I've cancelled an earlier response as useless. My apologies if I offended.
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t035750628z |
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no problem. we are all here to learn from each other.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-apollonius-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t043442271z |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204231372z |
category | philosophy |
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Congratulations @kyriacos! Your post was mentioned in my [hit parade](https://steemit.com/hit-parade/@arcange/daily-hit-parade-20170527) in the following category: * Comments - Ranked 6 with 91 comments
author | arcange |
---|---|
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
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permlink | re-arcange-re-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204429361z |
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right on!
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-arcange-re-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t145917623z |
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I watch a ball roll across the floor, hit the wall and bounce back. I conclude that the momentum of ball moving across the floor is energy, stored in the flex of the balls exterior as it hits the wall, that the ball's exterior rebounds against its deformation, using the stored energy to bounce the ball back away from the wall. Someone else disagrees and says the ball and the wall is alive, and ball doesn't want to trespass on the walls space, so it contorts its being and wills itself away from the wall. Another says that there is no ball, it is a shared delusion communicated to our brains by the government in a test to determine which genetic line will mostly likely be compliant in order to choose those who will be saved in the coming apocalypse. One could be true, none could be true, maybe all three partially true. Who knows. But what is true is that three individuals at least experienced something. Observed something. In that moment or series of moments, what every a moment happens to represent, an experience was had. Something happened. Even if it is one's, or the collective's construct of their own making at an unconscious level, something was experienced, observed. There is a truth to what was experienced. A lack of understanding, knowledge, perception, want or language does not negate that something was experienced.
author | bgrass |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170602t005125810z |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-bgrass-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204320158z |
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>There is a truth to what was experienced. A lack of understanding, knowledge, perception, want or language does not negate that something was experienced. Definitely not, hence the subjectiveness. This is why the post should be better titled "There are no absolutes".
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-bgrass-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170602t031816606z |
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I am
author | bgrass |
---|---|
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if you use math instead of language truth becomes possible.
author | blackvapor |
---|---|
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
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of course. This is because you predefine your axioms. they are correct because you demonstrate they are.
author | kyriacos |
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Right. this is the only way to do "it".
author | blackvapor |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-blackvapor-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t055728983z |
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There are absolute truths. However, if I stated them, all you would do is scoff. And although there is tons of evidence supporting them, and no evidence against them, they are still entirely put into the area of mystical. And then written off as things that stupid people believe, like witchcraft. So, know that they exist. And, as you seek, so shall yee find.
author | builderofcastles |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t162928596z |
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>There are absolute truths. However, if I stated them, all you would do is scoff. Please do so. Just state one and we can see if it holds throughout time and space and whether it has any supporting evidence for this >And although there is tons of evidence supporting them, and no evidence against them, they are still entirely put into the area of mystical. I am waiting for the evidence >So, know that they exist. And, as you seek, so shall yee find. saying so, doesn't make it so. Please try to make a proper argument.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-builderofcastles-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164712136z |
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I am not up to a debate. I am having enough troubles talking about the untruths in science, and those are just facts. You just poo-poo'd one absolute truth, and didn't even recognize it. So, a thing, that you probably can grock, but isn't an absolute truth, but is one from a human perspective. (as in being a human) Killing someone hurts your soul. It may be socially acceptable or inacceptable. Good or bad. But your soul is still hurt.
author | builderofcastles |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-builderofcastles-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t174727294z |
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Very true, based on my perspective :D If there are no absolute truths, how would we find it?
author | businesswri |
---|---|
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You don't. You dismiss it. If someone assume an absolute truth, you ask for them to demonstrate it.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-businesswri-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t172531746z |
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I don't know the truth anymore
author | businesswri |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t020245410z |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-businesswri-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204557525z |
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that's the way it should (mostly) be
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-businesswri-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t022413795z |
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Making a truth claim (an absolute) about the fact there is no absolute truth. Anyone not seeing that it is a self contradicting statement needs his head checked.
author | cryptoctopus |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164854987z |
category | philosophy |
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I am not making a truth claim. Dude, stop trying to imply things so you can make yourself sound right. It is intellectually dishonest. At least read the article. I said specifically; //Many people claim that the statement "There Are No Absolute Truths" is self defeating. This is erroneous since the sentence itself implies that the author is aware that even his own statement cannot be absolute. Most people that assume that the statement is self defeating is because they believe that the author, much like them, holds the belief that absolute truth exist.// >Anyone not seeing that it is a self contradictory statement needs his head checked. When everything else around us smells like shit, we first owe to check our underwear first. Read the post before your next comment.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-cryptoctopus-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t165129610z |
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Is it absolutely true that there is no absolute truth? If you say yes, then its a contradiction. If you say no, you are saying "it is not absolutely true that there is no absolute truth"...Madness! Foolishness passing as philosophy.
author | cryptoctopus |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-cryptoctopus-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t170653884z |
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> When everything else around us smells like shit, we first owe to check our underwear first.
author | stellabelle |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-cryptoctopus-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t165609259z |
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The older I get I have figured out one thing and one thing only. I really know nothing at all! I guess that is the way it works so it keeps you young trying to figure out what the heck is going on! Great post
author | digestingreality |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t170141928z |
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same here. the more i read the more I understand my ignorance.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-digestingreality-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t171829781z |
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I guess the first step is to admit we have a problem! Lol
author | digestingreality |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-digestingreality-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t191538140z |
category | philosophy |
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can't get on board with any performative contradiction lol :)
author | doitvoluntarily |
---|---|
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oh come on. We are way passed that. I am trying to make a point exactly about that seeming contradiction. We have to embrace a little bit the absurdity of the human experience. What's a small paradox after all?
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-doitvoluntarily-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t080742573z |
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for some, that's enough to point out the silliness of it. Interesting opinion post though!
author | doitvoluntarily |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-doitvoluntarily-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t081106134z |
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Great post. It's unbelievable how many people have a hard time comprehending that the world does not revolve around their own personal values and morality just because they happened to be raised in a particular time, location, environmental influences and life conditions.
author | elemenya |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t122613941z |
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https://steemit.com/philosophy/@fingersik/truth-an-omnipresent-law-sanity-s-core-pillar If I had more followers I would contemplate on my metaphysics more...good X bad was my next planned article back then...Maybe in few months because I dont want to waste such topics for 6 viewers:P
author | fingersik |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t162247409z |
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The only way to get more followers and viewers is by putting out good content. Write the article anyway, and the views will follow. I'm looking forward to reading it
author | aaronburt |
---|---|
permlink | re-fingersik-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t163244266z |
category | philosophy |
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I agree with you, write good content today, and what you write tomorrow will already be great.
author | looftee |
---|---|
permlink | re-aaronburt-re-fingersik-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t163435672z |
category | philosophy |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-fingersik-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204916878z |
category | philosophy |
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> It is a really hard-to-grasp kind of thing. There is an infinite amount of logically true statements, yet the Truth is one and only. One cannot own truth, since it’s immaterial and same for all the species in the universe. It does not lead, create nor control, it isn’t good nor bad – it just IS. Statement that everyone has his own truth is fundamentally false and on top of that so very dangerous. Not knowing the truth does not implicate that it does not exist. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You assume that absolute truth exists yet you provide no arguments other than making statements. In my article I address every single aspect that you bring up.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-fingersik-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164522883z |
category | philosophy |
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The point of my article is that the truth is the reality. Truth is gravity law. Truth is the way how brain works if we ever knew it. Truth is that we don’t know the most of the universe’s truths. Truth is that I love beer. Shall I continue?
author | fingersik |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-fingersik-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t165534775z |
category | philosophy |
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It is interesting how I was thrown back and forth on this topic as I read all the comments. The subject is obviously controversial in that one can look at it from different viewpoints. So I ask this question: TODAY, right now... is it not true that we actually know very little about the space we live within? In my way of thinking, this statement would in fact be true and even if one day we do learn all about our universe, the statement WAS absolutely true at the time it was made and remains valid forever because it was referenced to a specific time. That would mean that absolute truths CAN exist as long as they are properly framed. (Don't get me wrong; I'm not arguing your point and I see where you are coming from.) It is an interesting topic and I enjoyed reading all the debate. Is anything absolute? How do we even define the word 'absolute'? I loved the movie, The Matrix for its imagination... What is real? Are we but living a dream? Are we really just bits of spirit/energy, floating around in a parallel dimension and dreaming our entire lives so that the entity we call our-self can experience pain, suffering, fear and death?
author | happyme |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t191612304z |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-happyme-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204708827z |
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For the sake of discussion let's leave mathematics out. e.g you can say with absolute certainty that there are no square circles although the statement itself is self defeating. Can you name one thing that is absolute truth throughout space and time? If not then pointing specific time and space makes it relative, not absolute.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-happyme-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t192548801z |
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When you say 'thing', I assume you mean a physical thing? Something that can be measured? A measurement between relative objects would not qualify? (such as to say that the distance between suns is far greater than the distance between molecules of a solid object). Nope... I can't think of anything at this time.
author | happyme |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-happyme-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t194726698z |
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are you sure about that totally, absolutely?
author | joeyarnoldvn |
---|---|
permlink | q4fv8m |
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It does not matter if there is no absolute truth or not. What matters is that relativism leads to bad implications. Therefor absolute morality is an important aspect of society, even if it changes gradually. Absolutism may be a social construct but it is absolutely vital for civilization to prosper and even exist.
author | johnthehoan |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t153437536z |
category | philosophy |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-johnthehoan-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204402013z |
category | philosophy |
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Absolutism also leads to bad implications. Ask any political or religious leader. Come on man. You can do better than this.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-johnthehoan-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t154157401z |
category | philosophy |
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That depends on what vision is accepted as absolute. Of course society is always measured on a scale of relativism and absolutism and never completely one or the other. A good balance would be 80% absolutism and 20% relativism. I would say this represents 1950s America. Today we have the opposite and we see where it leads to.
author | johnthehoan |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-johnthehoan-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t154435759z |
category | philosophy |
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Wow, I am blown away with the way you see perception in life. I agree that nothing is absolute truth, the way I live my life, most people will regard that I am wasting my time and U will suffer miserably in my future. A lot of people think this way because I don't live according to the rules they are living. So my suffering in future is absolute truth for them. But in between, If I do something on my own to achieve what I always wanted to and become a lot more happy than I ever had been. My journey to my goals and my Path become true. And everyone will think that Whatever I have done In my life was well planned by me. So I was always right and this becomes absolute truth for them. People's perception changes with time and things, what's wrong for someone today maybe right for them tomorrow, because situation is different now. The thing I have learned here is that never make our opinions based on what people say. Analyze everything from all the ways we can and then decide what us true and what is wrong. After all our life depends on our perception.
author | looftee |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t162607890z |
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Indeed. Either one keeps an open mind or their beliefs will doom them to ignorance.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-looftee-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164310606z |
category | philosophy |
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Great, I will resteem it, so more people will be enlightened.
author | looftee |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-looftee-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164504895z |
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We have similar thinking
author | major137 |
---|---|
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category | philosophy |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-major137-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204449468z |
category | philosophy |
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always pleasant to meet similar minds.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-major137-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t145942923z |
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Yup not to many people try to think in different ways and understand things
author | major137 |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-major137-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t150259292z |
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There are no absolute truths, there are only polarities of the same thing. We are brainswashed into thinking we should classify everything into only two categories: light - dark, good - evil, cold - warm but there's only perception, limitless perception and we should not binarize anything. Enjoy the ride.
author | mihaifelseghi |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t201850784z |
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Dear miss or sir: If "there are no absolute truths", then there exists one absolute truth, namely, the truth that "there are no absolute truths", which is self-contradictory. Do you know what contradictory means? Here's and example: "Jane is white AND not-white." It basically is building and tearing down at the same time an idea or expressed statement. It goes nowhere. Unless you want to go nowhere, there's no point in defending contradictions. Now there is one truth that comes out of this self contradictions, namely, "There exists at least one absolute truth". In fact, there might be more than one. What do you think? Is 2 + 2 = 4 an absolute truth? That is, is always and everywhere and under all conditions true? Are you a witch or wican or wizard, or satanist of some sort? I know there lot's of such folk around, and some of them may have trouble with absolute truths... just wondering. Remember that the Eternal God who created Heaven and earth without starting from any preexisting realities is a trinity of 3 persons. I think the true God would agree with you to think in threes rather than binary patterns for things.
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-mihaifelseghi-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t035258688z |
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>What do you think? Is 2 + 2 = 4 an absolute truth? That is, is always and everywhere and under all conditions true? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YpjwYqTPnU8/hqdefault.jpg
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-apollonius-re-mihaifelseghi-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t043610579z |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-mihaifelseghi-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204953944z |
category | philosophy |
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When you live your entire life believing in something it is almost impossible to let it go. You would need to give up your identity. Not to mention your family and friends. Simply put: you are locked. Can not even try to question your believes but protect them until death because this is who you are... Absolute truth exists! In your mind. You are it.
author | neander-squirrel |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t043411897z |
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https://steemit.com/onemanyproblem/@apollonius/mere-tolerance-an-answer-to-professor-dario-antiseri-s-proposal-of-moral-relativism
author | apollonius |
---|---|
permlink | re-neander-squirrel-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170623t204534525z |
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but everyone's mind changes at time :)
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-neander-squirrel-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t062551202z |
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Keep them coming man. Resteemed this one too.
author | oldtimer |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t173631613z |
category | philosophy |
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Lovely. Thank you man. You are one of my greatest supporters. I mostly get hate mail :D
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-oldtimer-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t174810575z |
category | philosophy |
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People are brainwashed and blind. You brave to confront and discus with them and as I can see you enjoy at doing this . Unfortunately I'm not native English speaker and especially writing is very difficult and time consuming for me. Because of that only short comments are in my reach for now. You bring out most of controversial subject I'm thinking about. When you get hate mail, you know you're on the right path. I don't bother to explain my thoughts to anybody. Just have couple of family members, but they start to avoid me lately. To bad. Have a great day.
author | oldtimer |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-oldtimer-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t181210648z |
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It seems like there are two competing ideas here, one is advocating moral relativism and the other advocates subjectivity. Without completely destroying the discussion, I think it is helpful to remind everyone we are using language to describe the universe. Language changes. It is vulnerable to dialect, idioms, and misunderstanding. I went to dictionary.com to try to narrow down what "absolute truth" is. Truth: noun, plural "truths" 1. the true or actual state of a matter: "He tried to find out the truth." 2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement. 3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths. 4. the state or character of being true. 5. actuality or actual existence. 6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude. 7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness. And now "Absolute" which is modifying the "Truth" we are discussing. Absolute: adjective 1. free from imperfection; complete; perfect: "absolute liberty." 2. not mixed or adulterated; pure: "absolute alcohol." 3. complete; outright: "an absolute lie; an absolute denial." 4.free from restriction or limitation; not limited in any way: "absolute command; absolute freedom." As we can see, even in the realm of language, there is a lot of differences in what we are talking about. In one sense, truth could mean "an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude" or it could mean, "honesty; integrity; truthfulness." Since "absolute" is just modifying "truth" in this context, it would really help to know what you consider "truth" to be. You argue against "truth," saying it doesn't exist, but you never really define what it is. Since "Absolute" is modifying "truth", what specific truth are you talking about and how could it be "Absolute"? If "truth" and "absolute truth" don't exist, how are we able to use those words with any meaning? When I say, "Water (H20) can take the form of a gas, solid, or liquid," am I being untruthful? You say, "An objective truth has to be aspired by all people that ever lived and will ever live in our species. Yes, every single one across time and space. This is what makes the truth "absolute". " But if someone told me that water is only a liquid and never a gas or solid, it would do nothing to undermine the truth of my previous statement. It would just mean that they are wrong. Another helpful place to look might be the works of Derrida on deconstruction. The basic idea is that we can't know what the word "raw" means without understanding what the word "cooked" means. They are inter-related, just like a truth and a lie is. I don't mean to be rude, but the whole article breaks down into incoherence and is unintelligible without proper definitions. I understand that you can't prove a negative, but in that case you shouldn't be using the terms of the negative, or you need to redefine them. I suspect you are trying to argue for relativism on some level and against fundamentalist religious ideas, but I think you need to use different language to do.
author | pauljosepharcher |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t094214506z |
category | philosophy |
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>You argue against "truth," saying it doesn't exist, but you never really define what it is. A verifiable act or observation at given point in time. > I don't mean to be rude, but the whole article breaks down into incoherence and is unintelligible without proper definitions. I understand that you can't prove a negative, but in that case you shouldn't be using the terms of the negative, or you need to redefine them. I suspect you are trying to argue for relativism on some level and against fundamentalist religious ideas, but I think you need to use different language to do. No worries. I always enjoy a good critique. This is part 2 after all and linked other ideas. I did not want to delve with complicated philosophical concepts but rather convey the average perception of things as experienced by most people. It wouldn't matter if I define the words since most people have their own definitions.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-pauljosepharcher-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t102225437z |
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It seems like the purpose of the article is to stir up a general conversation of the subject, even if it is incendiary. I'm curious what you would think of the quote from Mahatma Gandhi, "Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth." It seems like you are putting forth your own, "verifiable act or observation," but if you don't believe truth exists or can be known, why do you care what anyone else thinks? Again, not trying to be rude, and I get that the article is meant to be provocative.
author | pauljosepharcher |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-pauljosepharcher-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t144429004z |
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Actually, there is not so much controversy to discuss about on this post but simply a plain mistake in insist to mix "Absolute" & "Truth" both words together into the equation for a possible, logical and coherent debate or reach eventual consensus. Just forget about **Truth or Untruth,** those two words are the ones which are highly & **absolutely** subjective and relative to everything on this plane, dimension, frequency or whatever you want to call it... ¿reality? My steemed @kyriacos, just leave it alone like this: **there are no ABSOLUTES** and that´s that! PERIOD!! ;) This way you will not have to waste more time defending your point of view derived from the confusion by including both words together: Absolute & Truth in the same phrase. They simply are both separate entities. Now, I agree and I'd also say; **"There Are No Absolutes In This Life"** Lies or Truths. Everything, **absolutely everything** is relative, subjective, etc, etc in relation to space-time. You simply can not trust even one of your very limited 5 senses to ensure **absolutely** nothing. Because your interpretation of truth, reality, etc., will never be more than your very own, personal and intimate subjective experience nourished by references previously learned, absorbed and digested, whether logical, coherent or otherwise. Therefore my point: **"There Will Never Have Absolutes In This Life"** not even witnessing and watching the events live and in real time. ;) https://youtu.be/DfPeprQ7oGc However, to not even agree with myself and give some respite of life to this **Absolute Truths** apparent controversy, I will finish my comment saying: *"The only absolute truth is that one of these days we are all going to die."*  ### But in the mean time.. ¡Steem On! Cheers!! :)
author | por500bolos |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t051431452z |
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>there are no ABSOLUTES and that´s that! PERIOD!! ;) spot on. I should have phrased it differently. I thought this was implied somehow. great answer
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-por500bolos-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t062421625z |
category | philosophy |
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Hehehe yes dear, using just words to phrase everything well and [spit our mind out accurately on all its splendor](https://steemit.com/philosophy/@por500bolos/the-binary-state-a-short-tale-to-snatch-you-off-some-laughter-and-continual-steemit-reflections) to the general audience... It's like walking into a brothel wanting and waiting for all the females in there fall in love with you ... just for your pretty face. LoL
author | por500bolos |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-por500bolos-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170529t074418459z |
category | philosophy |
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Because our experience is subjective does not mean that there are no absolute truths. You have been presented with absolute truths in comments on your previous post on this topic. You exist. How is that not absolutely true?
author | richardcrill |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170530t015518210z |
category | philosophy |
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I might be part of someone else's dream. also. google 'solipsism'.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-richardcrill-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170530t041855497z |
category | philosophy |
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What you are is another question. It doesnt change the simple fact that you are.
author | richardcrill |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-richardcrill-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170530t042624506z |
category | philosophy |
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I am.
author | richardcrill |
---|---|
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This is absolutely true.
author | schattenjaeger |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164124604z |
category | philosophy |
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No, it is not. My statement about absolute truths is a relative one — much like everything else.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-schattenjaeger-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164903667z |
category | philosophy |
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That's the joke. :)
author | schattenjaeger |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-schattenjaeger-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t164953145z |
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It's clear: doom ahead. https://media.giphy.com/media/8WLBQsjVNh3wc/giphy.gif
author | stellabelle |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t165435493z |
category | philosophy |
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lovely. you see? single picture can make my point
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-stellabelle-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t171628357z |
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This was very well written and thought out. Much appreciated. I enjoyed very it much. Thank you for the time, effort and more importantly the subject. Free thinking is not the norm these days IMO.
author | stillwater |
---|---|
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Thank you.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-stillwater-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t174727874z |
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What if time and space are not part of the equation? Time is movement through space. A measurement tool. The absolute truth would be that we can only have the now in which to live and the now is a zero point. No movement which means unmeasurable by time. And because time cannot measure without movement, space too is irrelevant. So, if an absolute truth has to be one that is not affected by time or space then that would be the eternal and unmeasurable, now for neither of those exist in the now. It would also imply that another truth is that whatever we do in the now is all that we can do in that space. The do is an action, but only measurable in hindsight and predictable in the future so absolutely frozen in space and time in the now. It is close to 2 am so I am not sure how well I explained that but: The Now is a thing and can never be anything else. It is singular as anything that is not it, can ever substitute for it. There is no alternative. How is my 2 am brain doing? By the way. The entry image is one of my favourite cartoons .
author | tarazkp |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t225000650z |
category | philosophy |
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>What if time and space are not part of the equation? indeed. proving my point even more >The absolute truth would be that we can only have the now in which to live and the now is a zero point. no such thing. you cannot freeze time still. >So, if an absolute truth has to be one that is not affected by time or space then that would be the eternal and unmeasurable no evidence for anything eternal or unmeasurable.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-tarazkp-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t022711247z |
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Are you saying: You can never freeze time? Never prove eternity? If something is unmeasurable it can not be measured therefore no evidence can ever exist. Can never be proven? There is no possible measure for the now other than consciousness itself. These nevers seem to stack up fast.
author | tarazkp |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-re-tarazkp-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170528t042515354z |
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Very well written and thoughtful article. I think we each live in our own worlds created by many things such as backgrounds, teachings, beliefs, life experience, etc, I believe we were each created for a purpose and it is our task to find that niche.
author | team101 |
---|---|
permlink | re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t184453239z |
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Very well said. This is why it is important to stick to your own truths even if you are aware that might be slightly off.
author | kyriacos |
---|---|
permlink | re-team101-re-kyriacos-there-are-no-absolute-truths-part-2-20170527t184814459z |
category | philosophy |
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