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Principles don't change - only the terrain...@taskmaster4450 explains why hive (or any DPoS) cannot survive. by lucylin

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @lucylin ·
Principles don't change - only the terrain...@taskmaster4450 explains why hive (or any DPoS) cannot survive.
I was reading @taskmaster4450's post just now. 



It's a post concerning why governments (gatekeepers) are on the losing side of history (it's well worth the read in full, imo).
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@taskmaster4450/the-demise-of-the-ultimate-gatekeepers-governments


![lllp - Copy.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/lucylin/23swfuKgryR6kk9o6vuB9Lt2cez9huE3a3mzheoctuWXXhHQPByapmuHNekbGFk7zFdqt.jpg)


#### And it illustrates _precisely_ , why any type of  DpoS governance system will not - can not - endure. 
And while blockchain technology may be relatively new, _principles_ are not.

This means, that even though _cryptocurrencies_ are new a new technology, the principals of _governing_ that technology, are not.

Let me break down @taskmaster4450 's excellent post, and compare the _principals_ of 'the gatekeeper', with DPoS governance...
(direct excerpts from his post are highlighted, and in sections - with my dissections ,  comparisons, and observations, underneath each part...Enjoy!

A quick 'foreword'...
![CIMG4181.JPG](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/lucylin/241tvUTh4mLyiLGNo2G4QHynV8Lpieu9RBvfGtAKY3cFKzvqCrwiQmJdZQ2xs3zGDTkXW.JPG)

#### In the rapid evolution of crypto currencies and block chain technology, DPoS had rapidly become 'the dinosaur' in the world of the emerging 'small mammal'.

While DPoS may have been a ground breaking concept 5 or 6 years ago, it's now  'old'.

Principals of freedom  - ones that may have been the initial motivation driving the emergence of cryptocurrencies, have been forgotten with DPoS governance, to be replaced by bureaucracies of the incompetence, fear of real change, and the growing obsession with power and control over others.

Money(tokens) , and the leveraging of that tool to garner power, is as tightly interwoven with 'free speech', 'paid for labor', and 'permission-less' as the hydrogen molecules that are combined with oxygen  to make water.

Any gaslighting argument to discount the reality of this interwoven _reality_ (using money as a tool of leverage to control others) , is just that.._gas lighting_... 
It's nothing more than a low IQ attempt to try and  maintain a narrative - one that's _not_ based in pragmatism and reality.

#### Principles don't change, only the terrain. 
#### ...And the terrain in this instance, is the Hive block chain, and it's ecosytem.


![CIMG4181.JPG](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/lucylin/241tvUTh4mLyiLGNo2G4QHynV8Lpieu9RBvfGtAKY3cFKzvqCrwiQmJdZQ2xs3zGDTkXW.JPG)
___
___
___


### ok, lets begin....

>...Few take the time to truly consider how much the governments act as gatekeepers for all of us. Most of our lives are permissioned. Consider for a second all the things we need to register or get approved before we can do something.

Few take the time to truly consider how much the DPoS governance structure act as gatekeepers for all of us. 
Consider  the things we need to get approved for before we can do something, like speak our truth.
While having lots of support from the community, all your works value (_given_ to you by supporters of your labors)   can be quashed - taken away - by the DPoS (hive) gatekeepers, via stakesize and downvoting.

> Ponder how companies require permission in some for to provide services to people. For example, if you want to give an entity some money for a return, in most parts of the United States, that institution requires a banking license. Without that, you are not allowed to engage with that institution.

Ponder how you, essentially, _require the permission from DPoS governance gatekeepers_ if you want to give another entity some crypto currency for their work  (the 'permission' to enact in such a transaction can be  withdrawn _at any time_ ***by the gatekeepers*** ,  via the down voting mechanism).

>Probably the greatest boost in this area came with the advent of broadcast television. In most countries, broadcasters are required to get permission from the government to be on air. They need a license for the frequency and then have to adhere to the rules set down. Break those rules and adverse consequences will occur.

In the Hive ecosytem, it's creators are required to get permission from the governance (large stakeholders) to earn from their labors. 
The fact that it can _only be granted in retrospect_ to their labors, only _dis-empowers the creator. (and thus, further _empowers_ the large stakeholder).
_The ***creators*** - the ones who are actually  inputting their labors -  ***have no say in the matter***_.


![lllp - Copy.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/lucylin/23tbRUiTG2eP7tNj3CjoehTo44a85CLQxsz2Ra331N1rb6BnxnEXQCHtCh69F65qo94Eu.jpg)



They require a license - of sorts - a stamp of approval  from the large stakeholders in the DPoS system - to be _allowed_ - to operate in a profitable manner in the ecosystem. 
***If you do not adhere to the unwritten rules that are arbitrarily decided upon by the large stakeholders***...***adverse consequences will occur***.

>Another thing many are not willing to admit but this gives the government authority over what people see. Whatever is being broadcast is constantly monitored by the government agencies. If there is something that is unacceptable, it gets removed.

Another thing many are not willing to admit _(it's hard for a person to see truth, when his income relies on NOT seeing the truth)_, but this gives the DPoS large stakeholders, authority over what people see. 
Whatever is being presented on a persons blog, is constantly monitored by the government agencies.(large stakeholders and their sycophanyic hangers on). 
If there is something that is unacceptable, it can get removed.
People work on incentives. 
Dis-incentives are the process by which the governance bodies try to control. 
_Financial terrorism_ - downvoting - is one of these _disincentivizing_ tools.


> Hence we see how much of our lives are permissioned.

Hence we see how much of our labor, and creativeness, is permissioned by the DPoS governance structure.



>The introduction of the Internet provided a sea of freedom. While this was initially in the hands of the users, it was quickly usurped by the corporations taking over. Thus, we have a forum which does not provide users much freedom but grants it exclusively to the corporations. For them, the Internet is a wonderful venue since governments cannot really affect them.

The introduction of the Internet provided a sea of freedom. While this was initially in the hands of the users, it was quickly usurped by the corporations taking over. 
Thus, in Hive - and all DPoS governance types - we have a forum which does not provide the small users  freedom(_'permissioned'_   is  ***not*** freedom, just a thin veneer purporting to offer such).  
DPOS can grant - almost exclusively if they so wish -  freedom of expression - but only to the large stakeholder.

For large stakeholders HIVE is a wonderful venue , since governance cannot really affect them - as they ARE the governance.
_'Rules for thee, but not for me'_.

>Suddenly, the governments have some competition when it comes to being the gatekeepers in people's lives. Of course, this does not help the average person since there is simply another entity exerting control.

DPoS governance  is simply changing one tyrannical entity for another. 
The principals remain the same, only the terrain changes.
*Ah but it's an opt in system! (I'll be addressing that argument lower down in the post - it's an empty point, once dissected).


![lllp - Copy.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/lucylin/EogMmmxvvkcUhdUHKTMHnuvYeHtacbKrzxE3923WRxPDaRu4gLEHWeMgPw7BSTwLL9E.jpg)


>Blockchain To The Rescue
One of the most impactful aspects to the introduction of Bitcoin is the ability to operate without permission. With the creation of permissionless blockchains, a new world is starting to open up.

Blockchain To The Rescue!
One of the most impactful aspects to the introduction of Bitcoin is the ability to operate ***without permission***. 
....Unlike the DPoS model, which as we have seen, is permissioned.
###### ***There is a  massive, _humongous_ difference***.

With the creation of permissionless blockchains, a new world is starting to open up, and this new world will not rely on  permission from anyone.





In this context, we can clearly see the 'dinosaur qualities' of DPoS...It's the _old fashioned, ***crony cRapitlist mentality*** - One which is trying to don the clothes of a new era, and then claim 'I'm trendy'.
(it's just like your dad , dancing at the disco - for anyone choosing to see it in action, it's an embarrassing attempt for 'the old' to try and look young._


> Here again, we see issues for governments. Many still feel that governments are going to be able to withstand the onslaught that is going to take place but it is very unlikely. In short, governments are not designed to deal with the problems they are going to encounter.

Here again, we see issues for DPoS governance. 
The hive cultist still feel that DpoS governance is going to be able to withstand the onslaught that is going to take place but it's _very_, very, unlikely. 
In short, DPoS governance structures are not designed to deal with the problems they are going to encounter - such as the desire for _permissionless freedom_.

>With blockchain, gatekeepers are obliterated. If something is permissionless, that means anyone is free to utilize it. We also see how no single person or entity is in control. Consider how much that changes the entire system of interaction.


##### With blockchain, gatekeepers are obliterated. 
##### With DPoS governance, gatekeepers are put in place.

>If something is permissionless, that means anyone is free to utilize it. We also see how no single person or entity is in control. Consider how much that changes the entire system of interaction.

DPoS governance is not permisionless, ergo a single entity or person can be in control over another (see this attempted control with my account, over the last 7 months...bless).
Consider how much that changes the entire system of interaction.
The result of this type of DPoS governace model is one of oppression and negativity - not one that's _expressive_, expansive, and positive.

![lllp - Copy.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/lucylin/23xLBQD8gXmC22y412Aq7NHSpinjXFTnVTV2LXbxU6GpRpDubResq5G4MTkAEmEEZcA1W.jpg)

>Over the next decade, we are going to see more transactions moving to blockchain. This means less is operating within the system. As tokenization take holds, the "registering" process is usurped. Simply posting on a blockchain provides a clear path of ownership/transfer of assets. There is no need for government in this equation.

There is _no need_ for DPoS governance in a permission-less, cryptocurrency based, ecosytem.

> We see the battle taking place right now. Governments, and their associated agencies, are trying to maintain control of this arena. They want to bring all transactions under their regulation and control. This goes against the very nature of the technology. Blockchain is designed to operate without government permission.

We see the battle taking place right now with accounts on Hive -Those  who value independence over conformity, freethinkers over the  sycophant ( who just _love_ the  DPoS Governance model, and the associated tyranny and 'power' it wields).
The large Hive stakeholders  are trying to maintain control of this arena(tyranny).
They want to bring all transactions on the Hive blockchain under their approval and control. 
This goes against the very nature of the technology. 
Blockchain is designed to operate without government permission.
As I've said, DPoS (and hive or steem) are an _old fashioned, crony cRapiltim model, trying to imitate the  _real_ thing -
Permissionless blockchain.
 
> To transact, obviously some type of financial arrangements are required. Of course, to get a digital wallet on a permissionless blockchain is simple and has no approval process. Also, people are free to transfer assets to whomever is desired without government oversight. 

...But not on DPoS systems. You are NOT ALLOWED to use your own inflationary generated tokens _without permission_. 
They can be taken off you by the governing authority, without redress  and _without_ asking you for any permission to do so, from the account holder.


> In short, one simply can set up and get operating. Nobody can deny participation or operation.
This obviously is a threat to governments.


DPoS governance CAN deny you _any ability_ to earn from your own labor. 
This obviously is a characteristic of any tyrannical government.
(communism).


>Starving The Beast
The hunt for taxes is something every government engages upon. It is one of their primary focuses.

Downvoting returns inflation tokens back into the 'rewards pool'.
This is a tax on the accounts who have used their _own allotted inflation_, to support other peoples work.

>No matter what level, governments always seek to squeeze more money out of the population. It is a beast that has to be fed

Downvoting and returning the inflation back into the rewards pool, to be redistributed back among the larger accounts, achieves this 'feeding the beast' paradigm. 

> When it comes to taxation, once you step passed the political and ideological stupidity, we realize that corporations have a sweet deal. Think back to them having to deal with many different governments. There is one advantage to that: taxation.

When it comes to taxation, once you step passed the political and ideological stupidity, we realize that DPoS large stakeholders, have a sweet deal. 
Total freedom, and a control over others. _It's the malignant narcissists, or sociopaths, or psychopaths, playground_. 
(Tyrannical actions without any accountability.)
DPoS _encourages_ such antisocial behaviors, not restricts it.
Permission-less is a  _completely opposite dynamic_.


> ...again we see blockchain coming to the rescue. 

...we see blockchain coming to the rescue. ....***Abso-fucking-lutely*** !!

>At present, we might not have the most ideal solution but it is coming.


At present, we might not have the most ideal solution but it is coming, BUT, due to the very structure of DPoS, it can ***never*** ***be*** the solution.
DPoS is the cryptocurrency, (blockchain) equivalent of the corrupt crony cRaptist system  that it purports to want to get away from ! 
***I.E...it doesn't really want to get away from it, _at all_. They just want to take the role of  'the gatekeeper ' over for themselves (a different tyranny, with the same dynamic).
###### The desire of weak men - for power and control over others.

...DPoS can never be the solution. 
It is the problem. 
It's a throwback of 20th century, cRapitalist mentality, but dressed in 1's and 0's , instead of Italian suits.

##### Block chain and cryptocurrency  is better than that.


> Naturally, all of this is hard to fathom since we all operated under this system since the day we were born. However, blockchain destroys gatekeepers and governments are the epitome of this.

All of this is easy to fathom, since we all operated under this system. Once you fully understand that system, you can see the problems with it.
However, blockchain destroys gatekeepers and governments are the epitome of this.

But DPoS - as a governance system for a blockchain - doesn't not address these issues - it only perpetuates the 'old model'.
DPoS _installs gatekeepers_, it does not make them redundant.

>Therefore, it is only logical that they will meet their demise as a result of this. We know it is only a matter of time as this technology spreads.

Therefore, it is only logical that DPoS will meet it's demise as a result of this. 
We know it is only a matter of time as this technology spreads.

CAPICHE ?

I hope this post acts as a catalyst.
One that opens your eyes, allows you see the pennies dropping, and wakens you up to the delicious aroma of _freedom coffee_.

**Ah but it's an opt in system, argument.
Yes, it is. But only for so long as the DPoS governance system was not adopted globally. 
Stakeholder cRapitlism (tehcnoocracy/ communism), as per the rantings of Klaus 'anal' Schwab, would mean no 'opt in option'.
THEN, the 'opt in' option would not exist. 
Only pure tyranny.
This one of MY motivating factors behind my 'dissent'. 
I want freedom for all, not tyranny.

It's better to 'nip the cancer in the bud', rather than let it go unnoticed, festering, growing...
...I don't give a fuck about the weak people's rabid hunger for 'moaaaaar money' - not... one...single... flying.... fuck.


#### Principals of freedom for all,  are far more valuable than any terrain.

A $900 upvote would be appreciated for this work, by the powers that be....it's worth much more....
A clever man could use this and use it to save your entire ecosytem ! 

Obviously,  I highly doubt that I'll ever see a $900 upvote from the large stakeholders and whales for this...that kind of inflationary token is allocated to announcements about hivefest !!....seriously..ffs... 

![lllp - Copy.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/lucylin/23tRxGG2NRThCs12n96zLvK95D7QXRpCQCDwiakaTRHB5K8tme7YKMPw9zVVsVJVjtut3.jpg)


The willingly blind will _continue to  refuse_ to see the problem - even with the writing on the wall, in 2 meter high letters...smdh.


![lane-3596034_1920.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/lucylin/23tkfTpSL41u1ENmHzfcF41kUN6cB5saSBLwrLwkaS3BZ8dB2ttXtCxSfWJvxmPtpGLNV.jpg)


F

#### Due to my account being nuked on Hive by the cabal, and having permission taken away to earn from my work,  versions of this post (and many others), will now be cross posted on: 
pocketnet, 
Steem, 
blurt, 
*****, 
********, 
****** ,and 
****** - ***.


πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 6 others
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vote details (71)
@edicted ·
$3.81
I'd say you've done a sub-par job of describing Hive here, and an abysmal job of describing DPOS in general. Pointing out the flaws of this system is easy to do, and pretty unworthy of a "$900" upvote.  In what alternate reality are you seeing $900 upvotes on this platform?  The biggest whales cast votes in the low $100's. Just the fact that you are measuring the votes in USD is telling. 

>And it illustrates precisely , why any type of DpoS governance system will not - can not - endure.

You don't have experience with "any" type of DPOS governance.  You've got experience with one, and it looks like you are doing what everyone else around here is doing: protecting their own self-interest.  When I read your posts, I don't see a champion of the people.  I see an over-inflated ego with delusions of persecution and grandeur hypocritically getting paid while complaining about not getting paid. How fabulous! Love that. 


There's nothing about DPOS that requires a reward pool at all. There's nothing about POW or POS that makes them superior governance structures.  Money rules the world, and DPOS leans into that and cuts out all the middle men and advertising/propaganda associated with traditional republics. 



##### I would challenge you to name one actual network that has better governance than Hive.  Bitcoin and Ethereum governance structures are abysmal/non-existent. 
Well?  I'm waiting. 
Hint: it doesn't exist (yet). 
Which is exactly why are you still here. 

##### That's fine though: you found your niche.
Good for you. 
Can't fault you for doing the thing you're paid to do.
Which is ironically complain about not getting paid. 


Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@edicted/re-lucylin-69o7cc)
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vote details (3)
@introvertspeaks ·
> I would challenge you to name one actual network that has better governance than Hive. Bitcoin and Ethereum governance structures are abysmal/non-existent.

That may be because, in a truly `decentralized` and `permissionless` setting, governance is supposed to be nonexistent or at least keep it at a bare minimum. From this premise, it is safe to assume that Bitcoin and Ethereum come very closer to this ideal. Though not a fan of their tech, just pointing out out truths here and there
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vote details (3)
@edicted ·
What I'm hearing is that you expect some kind of perfect anarchy situation to pop up, or even worse that you're going to let some kind of AI govern you.  That's not how government works.  The lack of Bitcoin and Ethereum's governance models means that they will be slaves to the legacy system.  Their lack of governance creates a vacuum that allows them to be controlled by the current powers that be. Only when some other crypto pops up that actually has governance will it be able to wrest control from the dinosaurs.  Idealism isn't going to get anyone anywhere in this situation. 
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@introvertspeaks ·
> (it's hard for a person to see truth, when his income relies on NOT seeing the truth)

Bam! I have yet to continue reading but this phrase will absolutely hit so many nerves, particularly the beneficiaries who won't even have the courage to glimpse into, like bloodsucking creatures we often see in movies called vampires so terrified to see the daylight. I feel lazy posting the past few weeks so I guess tagging a best friend @adamada who might enjoy reading this would be a reasonable contribution to this community πŸ˜…
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vote details (1)
@adamada · (edited)
Dunno why you even bother tagging me here. I already made my peace that none of the $ I get from my posts aren't mine until 7 day payout, or I earned it for doing a good job for whatever reasons they think I did, and I just view it as a tip to which may or may not be Christmas. I don't have control on whoever votes for me or whether they want to vote my shit content or not. 

You want a piece of the pie without the headaches? stake up and upvote something because that's the mechanisms given by the system. Don't like it then leave, or stay continuing what gives you more reasons to stick around with the drama. In hindsight, maybe the amount of time people spend bitching about the system they call out would've have been better spent idk building somewhere that appreciates their contribution/content. It's more productive that way.
πŸ‘Ž  ,
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vote details (2)
@introvertspeaks ·
You missed the point dahling of why I'm sticking around for as long as the Hive ring enterprise continued to be marketed as decentralized and a home to free speech

![esuaojpuuam60k1.jpg](https://images.ecency.com/DQmNsQh6yvH3Sex5gCDpE5QMAK6qzRBCbzzodWt6M14A9ej/esuaojpuuam60k1.jpg)
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@poshtoken ·
https://twitter.com/RealJoeBeijing/status/1449915788526227456
<sub> The rewards earned on this comment will go directly to the person sharing the post on Twitter as long as they are registered with @poshtoken. Sign up at https://hiveposh.com.</sub>
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@preparedwombat ·
Ragequit *never again to bother whining about the evil of Hive’s DPoS* posts don’t age well.
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@steemstreems · (edited)
Ha!

You're not wrong...

I wish you were , but you are not.

I would like to think that a networked system of freedom and abundance could be designed that would replace the gatekeepers.  Essentially that would have to be "no system" though ;-)

Maybe that was your point.  Ugh.  Now my head hurts.

I do know one thing.  People will always find ways to be governed.  It is a problem as old as the human race.  One of my favorite stories from the bible is when the Israelites asked God for a king.  Basically God said I will give you a king, but this what he is gonna do to you:

Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do."

Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king.

He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots.

Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.

He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers.

He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants.

He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants.

Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use.

He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves.

When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day.

Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king.

He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots.

Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.

He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers.

He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants.

He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants.

Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use.

He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves.

When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day."


Sorry for the long quote, but it is a perfect encapsulation of the human need for governance and the consequences thereof.

There will always be a king :-)

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@steemstreems/re-lucylin-2jeatx)
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vote details (1)
@frot ·
![image3A11413_chroma-01-01.jpeg](1)
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@frot ·
$0.03
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vote details (1)
@lucylin ·
This human has never ,needed or desired, a governance by others...
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vote details (4)
@phusionphil ·
The amount of pleasure I get upvoting these old comments knowing a Psychophant is watching πŸ–
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vote details (4)
@steemstreems · (edited)
Ha!  Right again!

I know I sure don't.

Funny how we always end up there though :-0

'Cause I think that a lot of people think that they don't, but they really do.  A lot. :-(

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@steemstreems/re-lucylin-22aewh)
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