This is a discussion worth having. 

Unfortunately, as a small account I don't agree with this idea, even though I recognise all the failings of the current system. I feel it would be better to create tools to identify plagiarism, and to give users more tools to deflect abusive behaviour directed at them. Tweaks to the current system (particularly around downvotes) are something I could get behind.

However, I feel what we'll see here is a clear split between those who came to Hive through games or Dapps, and those (like myself) who came to Hive as an alternative social media and blogging platform. 

For social media users, a key part of the message is that we are no longer just a product, that we can be rewarded for contributing. The current reward system is a combination of financial commitment (stake) and time commitment (author/curation rewards). Take away the rewards, and what we'll end up with is the biggest accounts getting ever bigger as they hoover up all the HP. There'd be little chance for smaller accounts to catch up, and no incentive to stay active. Trying to re-focus rewards on Layer 2 tokens just creates fragmentation and a level of complexity that may deter ordinary users.

I understand where you're coming from and what you're trying to do. But with no rewards for activity, Hive will rapidly become a purely Dapps platform and the social media side will either die or be forced to fork off into something totally separate.

No no no.
>Fast, free transactions with a strong community of developers.

It is somewhat true, but it is not unique to Hive.

Moving blogging to second layer apps could help achieve some goals. Second layer apps can be centralized and as such can make their content exclusive. It means they could f.e. effectively introduce ads (and share part of the revenue with their users, which might actually be more than what they could gain now on Hive). With blogging on first layer it is not really possible, because users would likely gravitate away from front-end with ads.

Centralized apps with exclusive content could become closer to other platforms like Reddit, Twitter or Facebook, because they could moderate user content bringing a bit of order and weeding out bad actors. But being able to moderate means being able to censor or shape the narrative. Moderated user content is no longer user content. The inability to censor users no matter how much we disagree with them is the strong feature of Hive. But of course in such environment there will be people that abuse the freedom with plagiarism, nonsense and lies or "hate speech" - they can be downvoted into oblivion (which takes away their financial incentive), but they can't be silenced.

Comment rewards pose other important role. They let "ordinary people" gain exposure to Hive without any monetary investments or even financial knowledge. Every actual user (aka not a bot) can collect some Hive over time just by talking about whatever interests them. Sure, it would not be possible to live off of blogging on Hive, but that might actually be a good thing. With many users having small sums it is unlikely they would care to try and sell - it is simply not worth the effort. It means a bit less concentration of power. Because SMTs were supposed to have similar mechanism (distributing tokens through comment rewards which is healthy, "organic" type of distribution), if only they were finished they could be used to provide mechanism for second layer governance (tokens tied to apps/communities as a mean of decentralized control).

Personally I don't like curation rewards, I think we could even be charging people for votes rather than rewarding them for it. But everything in due time. For now such rewards are necessary to keep the engine going. Sort of how super high interest rates on HBD are there to encourage investments.

By the way, stake holders already get part of inflation as interest (price of VESTs increases over time).

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This is an unpopular debatable opinion it doesn't need to be right or wrong currently. I read countless discussions like this. You might be thinking we all ignore the flaws of the system but there are many users and witnesses working day and night to go on unpopular ways to bring a change. I wanna leave an opinion of a user to you, read for yourself and be assured that these opinions and feedback are needed and appreciated. Have a read:

___
**Code is king meaning once it's implemented it's the objective framework that becomes "law". Of course humans must write it so that's where a good governance system makes the difference so that proposals + community input build a symbiotic healthy system. Like you said though, DPOS won't be going away so in essence elites only have the real say with HIVE development.**

**I agree with you that we shouldn't think code fixes everything and that's not what  I view as a healthy system either since the vision of HIVE is that it's 'rewarding qualify content' so the human element shouldn't be wiped out of the equation.**

**Yet... Hive is a doosie. Since the blind curation trial system currently in place exists as a replacement for human. Which is more of a life support system that needs constant tweeking because rather than symbiotic, it's more of a parasitic system that drains the life (human element) from the host/Hive.**

**Making things like HW the patchwork code trying to stabilize life of the Host... but then governed by ego of self appointed rule makers.**

**It's not a good system at all and it's why Hive is niche. It couldn't possibly handle large adoption and sustain health as is.**

**And imo.. "elites" don't want that changing since without big changes it's a house of cards if it gets beyond manageable.**

**Then the other thing is the division of mindsets. Where mobs work to destroy anything perceived as "not playing by the rules" so it's like a waterhole drying out.**

**If there was abundance of water the activity would be spread out and everyone winning would mean no need to fear destruction.**

**But since that waterhole be drying out... all creatures are a tight collective and all forms of lashing out takes place since that water "rewards" is shrinking.**

**Which is what I think elites fear on HIVE. If the platform grows then it's going to dry out much quicker since the code has a ways to go before it could be objectively seen as a superior system to build on.  One without self appointed sheriff's dictating the terms of how the game should be played.**

**Players like j-rize imo are the proverbial 'canary in the salt mine' since they bring forth those flaws outlined. Yet early steemit was once celebrated as "if the code let's you do it then we shouldn't attack winners (exploiters) but instead work to better the system."**

**That's maybe the fundamental flaw. Some think the system is just fine. But then it will always need "medical procedures" to keep the illusion of a fair platform that lives by "rewarding quality".**
___

See opinions don't have to be right or wrong (imediately), we need to improve the technology continuously and these type of unpopular opinions fuels it. !1UP

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At the protocol level, Hive is pretty awesome. We just need to build on our foundation. Rewards will often create controversy. Wages too. And yet, those don't get removed. EDIT: Not saying Hive rewards are or should be treated as a wage, lol.

I believe making HIVE a governance & staking token only will make it... common. There are so many tokens out there offering the same thing.

I don't think I like the idea of removing the vote reward pool because it will take away the ability for new users to earn enough HP. Without it, interacting with the blockchain will be tough but I guess it could be alleviated somewhat with RC delegations. However, it just feels like a bandaid to make the people who were here earlier more powerful.

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I love these kinds the debates, I've read every comment in this thread haha 

I think it's a scary thought and most people hate change. Removing voting rewards would kind of remove the need for HP wouldn't it? Bar as you say, earning based on how much the person has. How would that work with delegations, who would earn from that?

I can see your point about people leaving the chain, thing is though, most people now aren't into writing long posts, and the average person is less interested in reading them. That's why Tiktok, IG and Twitter are so popular. So a lot of people who leave may do so because they aren't getting their dopemine hits fast enough. I know we have DBuzz and I think there's a shorts section on 3Speak.

Maybe focusing on those apps could bring people in and give a home to the ones who like short content, then we'd expand a bit more. Maybe they could have their own coins associated with them that could be sold for Hive and staked. 

But then keep Hive for the long form content creators and curators. I'm not sure really. There are some ideas that just can't be crammed into 240 characters, so this blogging side would still have to be the main side of the chain.

!PIZZA

Все идет в правильном направлении!!! я нахожусь в разних блокченах и Hive для меня лутший.Я перешел на блокчейн 2 уровня и доволен нашел для себя 2 сайта и доволен.

Though question, maybe you’re right, but it would change the dynamics completely. I don’t think the community is ready for such a blunt move…

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This is a conversation that can start the new and improved Hive. There is one problem. Posting and earning from it are the centerpiece of hive. Changing that will change what #hive stand for. #layer two is another ball game altogether.
At least this is a conversation starter to help layer two to move forward with #hive.

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I’ve seen this idea floated several times, and hate it more each time that it comes up.

>I know that this would suit a lot of the bigger accounts more than the smaller accounts…

Exactly. And for all the times I’ve seen the idea floated, I’ve yet to see a single minnow who liked it.