RE: When Is a Blockchain no Longer a Blockchain? by novacadian

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Viewing a response to: @lukestokes/wmjtrllk

hive-181335 · @novacadian · May 22 '20 (edited)

$0.17

My feeling is that a blockchain is no longer a blockchain when it ceases to perform the function of a blockchain. That is when its ledger can no longer be trusted to represent the historical record of transactions on the blockchain. Both the STEEM and HIVE chains have failed in this regard and we are witnessing the failure of DPoS Governance in my opinion; nothing about the half full or empty glass of the centralised BS narrative.

👍 oldtimer, vimukthi

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@lukestokes · May 22 '20

How has the Hive chain failed in that regard? Can you point to one example on chain where that happened? If you're referring to the Hive genesis block, that's invalid. There has not been a single instance I know of where Hive has not accurately and exactly reflected every single transaction made to it with robust security due to distributed consensus.

Comparing Steem to Hive at this point is comparing a database with one administrator to a global, permission-less network with over hundred independent validators.

The key question is when does trust break down? Was it when Justin took over given the known threat of the centralized, steemit ninja mined stake? When they started censoring accounts? How do we accurately measure trust and when it breaks?

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@foxon · May 22 '20 (edited)

In the case of steem, trust broke when the exchanges staked their steem and voted in multiple copies of Justin sun to fill the top 20. It is possible trust could have been recovered after that point, but the continued use of Sybil witnesses made it impossible

Maybe it's naive, but an actor posing as multiple witnesses is a lie. Lying breaks trust. Using the Steemit, inc stake for voting would break trust with a number of steem community members, but may not have been enough for layer zero to engage protective action

The greatest thing about DPoS is that it puts the human element on chain. It doesn't have to stay as rigid as other systems. That means we can forgive, forget, and negotiate through a number of scenarios. As such, only the DPoS community can really decide when trust has been broken for them

I don't think there can be a universal measure of when trust is broken, but for cheeses sake, can we all at least agree that a successful 51% attack used to initiate a Sybil attack is definitely past the threshold? 😄 The answer is "no". We cannot all agree on that. Exchanges see Steem as a legitimate deployment, and there are a number of users happy with the benevolent dictator

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@novacadian · May 25 '20 (edited)

Ask the Korean whale where his fund's history disappeared or how the Ninja coins of STINC have been moved around. There are others yet the pettyness made me turn away from following it all. 

If the *V.22.2 Cabal* wanted to approach this ethically they should have started a fresh chain and then folks could have calmly sold their STEEM to buy HIVE as it became available. But the *V.22.2 Cabal* wanted to double dip while not allowing others to  do the same. What they wanted was to remove all decenting voices to sure up their power base. 

Their actions have doomed both chains in my opinion. Who would invest in a governance which has been shown to fiddle with *both* chains. You think @theycallmedan would double down if he had anything left or would he be sensible and invest in Monaro this time? 🤓

You being a *self proclaimed* libratarian should be the last to defend this sham, Luke. Shame on you.

P.S. In case there is any doubt there is a god damn blacklist of all accounts whose funds *mysteriously* disappeared after the HIVE fork. Is that enough proof for you? Probably not as you were in the *V.22.2 Cabal*.

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