Christopher Ayres: You’re going to have to define wrong. Do you mean wrong as in a doctrine of indoctrination of falsehood proven by the historical evidence? Do you mean the incompetence of an illiterate man who waged war and taught his followers to be conquerors? Do you mean the incompetence of a supposed god who couldn’t write an intelligible book? Do you mean the supposed god that forces its adherents to be slaves while he doesn’t possess the power come to earth or even reveal direct revelations to the schizophrenic self-proclaimed prophet? Do you mean the scientific errors that are so profound that you have to twist the words, reinterpret or remove words altogether for them to be somewhat remotely correct? You’re going to have to narrow down what you’re looking for as an answer. You just opened a door to a very broad brush.
P-Charmer: Everything against God can be talked about here. God says He is the truth and He is almighty so He is not afraid of questions or criticism. One who cannot face questions and criticism cannot be God. Fear is a fault so God by definition does not fear anything or anyone. God is faultless and above faults. Anyone who is weak or faulty cannot be God.
Christopher Ayres: Allah doesn’t face criticism because he can’t come to earth. You have just discredited your religion by setting criteria that he can’t meet.
P-Charmer: Indoctrination is the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. Islam has nothing to do with indoctrination because the Messenger has said that the foundation of our religion is the intellect. So the use of intellect is one of the essential principles of Islam. The Quran at various places says: "don't you think?", "don't you use intellect?" don't you reflect?" and at one place in Quran God says "don't fall blindly on my verses or ayats" which means that don't accept my signs and verses blindly instead think over them and reflect over them. The truth never fears that's why God and his Messenger invites everyone to think and to exercise their intellect. So Islam has nothing to do with indoctrination.
Sophia Shaw: Compelling and beating a child to form the habit of praying is abuse and indoctrination of a child. A child is not at the stage to read, think and understand Quran.
Christopher Ayres: You choose to believe a set of beliefs uncritically so you are indoctrinated according to your understanding. Also, it’s an oxymoron for the Quran to use the intellect because you believe Allah chose a man who couldn’t read or write. You continue to destroy your own Quran.
P-Charmer: Sophia Shaw, The Messenger's character is the example for Muslims and he never beat any child for prayers instead love and kindness are the basic ingredients of his way of training and educating.
P-Charmer: The Messenger did know how to read or write and he knew far more than this but he did not learn it from humans like Christopher instead he learned everything directly from God.
Christopher: I know that he never received any revelation directly from Allah because I actually read your hadiths and the historical evidence of your religion. There’s zero historical evidence that Muhammad had anything to do with the Quran.
P-Charmer: Surah Al-Najm Verses 3 & 4.
P-Charmer Translation of these 2 verses is: Nor does he speak from his own desire. It is not but a revelation revealed.
P-Charmer: There was not a single moment in messenger's life that was empty of the direct connection with God. The messenger always said what God revealed to him. Each and every word which the messenger said in His life was God's word.
P-Charmer: Rest assured Christopher Ayres my words are only for those who can think properly and whose hearts are not blind and dark.
Christopher Ayres: The verse doesn’t say it was revealed by Allah directly to Muhammad. Not a single tradition, verse, Hadith or Sirah agree that Muhammad received revelation directly from Allah. So you are either lying to me or all the writers of the Sunnah are lying. So which is it? Is the history lying or are you? It doesn’t matter to me which one but you can’t both be right.
Christopher Ayres, The first 40 years of his life was without the God so you just lied again. You really make me wonder how much of your religion that you even know.
P-Charmer: God uses dark-hearted people to show the light to sane people. Sane people see the light and dark-hearted people only drown in their own darkness. The devils are appointed over them whose duty is that they beautify the sins of dark-hearted people in their sight. The devils encourage them to actively seek fire. Nobody can stop them from seeking fire because they willfully choose darkness over light. Such is the revenge of God if you could just understand.
P-Charmer: There are two types of revelation one is the indirect revelation that came through Jebreel AS and the second type of revelation is the direct revelation which came without anyone in-between.
P-Charmer: Muhammad pbuh was a messenger even before the creation of Adam A.S. So Muhammad had never been without God.
Christopher Ayres Wow. That’s an extraordinary claim and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So what evidence do you have that this is true?
Sophia Shaw: Gender inequality and human inequality as in slavery and superiority of Muslims against the non-Muslim population.
The teaching and support of violence against non-Muslims.
P-Charmer: The Messenger did not have any teacher in this world and he did not receive any education from any human on Earth instead He had a direct link and connection with God. God himself was the messenger's teacher. God's knowledge is limitless and messenger's knowledge is also limitless because an All-knowing God was his direct teacher. The word "Ummee" means one who did not take any lessons from anyone except God.
Hardi Aks: Just people wrong when they use to kill someone for religion.
P-Charmer: The Messenger taught his followers to conquer their own selves. He taught his followers self-discipline. He taught them to conquer the hearts of people through love and kindness.
P-Charmer: God is not incompetent and he did reveal an intelligible book in one of the best languages of the world. But people are fond of talking about Quran without learning Arabic language or they just assume that it is not intelligible because they don't intend to study it instead they just want to find fault to mock about Quran.
P-Charmer: God does not force anybody to be his slave instead people are free to choose between God's slavery and disbelief. He granted free will to choose between Hell or Heaven. God is present everywhere including the Earth. And God has a test plan and an essential part of that test-plan is that God will not appear before the eyes of people instead He will scatter his signs in the universe. He wants to see that who chooses to believe in God and who chooses to disbelieve in Him. If God appears before the eyes of people nobody will disbelieve in him after watching him so it is God's test plan to not to appear before the eyes of people.
Christopher Ayres Muhammad had no direct link with Allah. Not a single revelation was given directly from Allah to Muhammad according to the traditions.
Christopher Ayres So who is lying? You or the traditions?
P-Charmer: All traditions are not authentic but the whole Quran is authentic. There are two types of revelation the revelation that comes through Jibreel is called Wahi-Ay Jali and Quran is Wahi-Ay-Jali whereas revelation other than Quran is called Wahi-ay Khafi. God and the messenger were constantly connected through Wahi-ay Khafi.
Christopher Ayres That’s interesting. The traditions are older than the Quran. So if they aren’t authentic then the Quran can’t be either.
Christopher Ayres: Muhammad didn’t teach love and kindness with the exception of the Muslim community. There was no love and kindness about other people in the Quran. Not one verse in the Quran does it tell Muslims to love unbelievers. Not one.
P-Charmer: The Messenger taught the love and kindness for the whole of Creation including animals and non-Muslims as well. Islam protects the rights of non-Muslims. Islam gives them a freedom to practice their worship. God himself is the enemy of non-believers who reject his clear signs and who choose sins over virtues. Those who want to kill Muslims were the enemies of Muslims and enemies are treated like enemies. If you will hug your enemies they will do nothing but they will insert a dagger into your heart. You hug your enemies and see what happens next.
Christopher Ayres Show me one verse in the Quran that tells Muslims to love unbelievers. Or one verse that says Allah loves unbelievers. Just one. If you can’t then you’re lying to me.
P-Charmer: God scatters his signs within humans and he scatters his signs in the universe. God revealed a book that is packed with his signs. God revealed a miraculous book. God sent a messenger with a miraculous character and personality. God loves people. God gave the solution to all the human problems in the form of Quran, Hadith, and Seerah of the messenger. God answers all the important questions that humans face on Earth. Success and happiness are hidden in following Islam. God invites people to the truth. God invites them to Quran. God announces to non-believers that accept the truth and I will forgive all your previous sins. And I will even turn your sins into virtues. A Christian told the messenger that he dug a fresh grave of a woman and that Christian did the dirty sexual thing with the dead body of that woman. The Christian asked that will God forgive such a grave sin? The messenger gave him the glad tiding from God that if he accepts Islam all his previous sins will be forgiven no matter what! He accepted Islam and now he is one among the companions of the messenger and his entrance to the paradise is more than certain. Allah says in Quran that companions are happy with God and God is happy with them.God invites them to Himself. He invites them to success, happiness, and spiritual bliss but what happens is that non-believers reject and deny God’s signs. In their hearts, they know that God and Islam is the truth but they reject them only out of arrogance and due to a pure darkness of their hearts. After denying the truth non-believers refuse the invitation of God towards his bounties and they transgress to go against the will of God. They plan against the God’s plan. God declares that there is no compulsion in Islam. The truth is made clear so now it is the choice of people to accept the truth or to deny the truth. People are free to choose heaven or to choose the hell. God gives the freedom to non-believers to build buildings to practice their false religions. God even allows them to put idols in their worship places. Rights of non-believers are recognized and respected. But what happens is that the non-believers turn into Satans. The non-believers want to snatch lives and resources from Muslims. The non-believers want to rule and kill Muslims. The non-believers want to disgrace the mosques. The non-believers turn into enemies. The non-believers want to burn God’s book. The non-believers want to create unrest and disturbances in Islamic states. The non-believers want to mock God. They want to mock God’s verses. They want to mock the messenger. Now how the non-believers should be treated? Now, what the non-believers deserve? Love? Now God says what? Mind it I am the enemy of non-believers. Allah is the enemy of the non-believers. Only foolish people love their enemies. Wise people teach a good lesson to their enemies and only foolish people give hugs to their enemies.
P-Charmer https://youtu.be/jOyj_oq9ueQ
Christopher Ayres Interesting. Do non believers want to do all that? I find that very interesting when it’s a historical fact that Muslims have killed more Muslims than non-believers killing Muslims. I do have to agree with your harsh lessons for unbelievers because that is historically proven. A death toll of 669 million unbelievers killed for their beliefs is a pretty harsh punishment. You did, however, prove that there is no love taught in Islam with the exception of Muslims loving each other. There is no love for unbelievers when it comes to Islam. The greatest adherents slay and are slain according to the Quran and that seems to rain truly according to the facts of statistics. You made a very good case of proving that Allah needs to be loved to show the love which means he’s incapable of love. It’s a very strong case about what Allah isn’t capable of doing. At best he’s a narcissist more than likely created within the mind of somebody who suffered great loss and needed the companionship of other people so bad that he would call for the death of those who disagree with him. Bukhari teaches that exact same fact. You provided a believable hypothesis of a created cult by a man who needed a lot of therapy. The psychoanalysis is compelling. Thank you for that.
Christopher Ayres, I love that verse 2:98 because it disproves Allah as the god. Because of Surah 14:4 says Allah leads whom he wills astray. Which means he’s responsible for people's disbelief because he created that disbelief. So, therefore, the Quran teaches that Allah leads people astray so he can have his followers and himself punish them for Allah’s choices. That’s the definition of a schizophrenic psychopath that needs to fulfill his needs of punishing the innocent because he gave them no choice. You call this person god??? You can’t be serious. If you believe God is that immoral then you are truly lost.
Christopher Ayres, You don’t answer my questions. You give me circular reasoning because you never give me the answer I ask for. The only truth you keep showing me is the truth I have already said and then when you go on this long tangent of trying to explain away my question because you have no answer you dig a deeper hole of discrepancies within your religion. I’m basically sitting here watching you dodge my questions and dismantle your own religion in your own words. The only hope I have is that you actually see what you’re avoiding and actually look at what you’re writing critically. Don’t choose to be ignorant choose for the evidence to tell you the truth. Every religious book requires evidence. Period. Every single one of them fails because religion is man made. I really hope you eventually open your eyes one day.
P-Charmer, I agree that all religions are man-made except Islam. The thing is that understanding religion is not easy. Many many people call themselves Muslims but it's possible that they are not Muslims. Muslim is not a name instead it is a sound philosophy. For example, you mention that Muslims killed Muslims. Logically it is not possible. One who kills a Muslim is no longer a Muslim. Even if a Muslim kills an innocent non-Muslim cannot be a Muslim. A person that believes that killing a Muslim is allowed, how can he be a Muslim? Those who blow them in mosques to kill Muslims, how can they be Muslims?
P-Charmer: The most important thing is that if a person is not ethical he or she is not a good human and an ethically wrong person cannot be a good Muslim.
P-Charmer: There is a saying from the messenger which means that that person is a Muslim from whose hands and tongue other Muslims are safe. This is how a Muslim is defined then how can a Muslim kill another Muslim.
Christopher Ayres: Because the Quran commands the killing of hypocrites within Islam and since there are no clear muppet Quran until 1924 and there are over 26 different Arabic Qurans many Muslims can find justification in killing other Muslims because each one can say the other is a hypocrite when there is no evidence of which Islamic sect is true. Muslims kill each other because of hearsay and a man-made religion. It’s very simple.
Christopher Ayres: If you don’t believe me read surah 9:73 and verses 86 and 91 of the same surah.
P-Charmer: There is a criterion to determine that which Islamic sect is true. Quran, authentic Hadith and the human intellect are the criteria to determine that which sect is true and which one is wrong. For example, Shias have various sub sects within the Shia sect. One Shia sect is called Al-Gharbiyah. In Arabic, Ghurab means a crow.Now the crows are extremely similar to each other and it is extremely difficult to tell that which crow you saw this morning, for example. Crows are hard to differentiate among themselves. Now, these Shias claim that the spirits of Muhammad pbuh and of Ali A.S, the fourth Caliph, were similar like crows. What happened was that God sent Jibreel to Ali to reveal Quran to but Jibril could not differentiate between the spirits of Ali and Muhammad and by mistake, Jibreel went to Muhammad to reveal Quran. What they want to say is that Quran was to be revealed to Ali but it got revealed to Muhammad by mistake. Now, what does it mean? It clearly means that Al-Ghurabias believe that Ali was the real Messenger and Muhammad was not a Messenger at all. Now one who denies the prophethood of Muhammad is not a Muslim! But Al-Ghurabiyas call themselves as Muslims. Now they are not Muslims. That is why I say that many people claim themselves to be Muslims but they are actually worse than Kafirs. Look at another Shia case. Abu Lu Lu Feroz. Who was he? He was the killer of the second Caliph Umar R.A.And Umar was a Great companion of Muhammad pbuh. Now Abu Lu Lu Feroz’s shrine is in Iran. And many Shias visit his Shrine or tomb as a sacred place and they call him HAZRAT Lo Lo Feroz. Moreover, they write words like Salawat-Allah Alaihi with his name. HAZRAT is a title which is used mostly in Asia with the most sacred personalities of Islam. For example, we use it with our Messenger's name and also with the names of Companions. Now, these Shias tell the world that Lo Lo Feroz was a sacred and respected person in their sight by calling him Hazrat Lo Lo Feroz. Moreover, they send blessings of Allah to him also. These Shias visit Abu Lo Lo Froze's shrine like a place of worship! Again who was Abu Lo Lo Feroze? He was a Killer of a Companion Umar R.A. Allah in Quran says that Allah is pleased with the companions and the companions are pleased with Allah. So tell me who are the lovers of Abu Lo Lo Feroze? Are they Muslims? Not at all! So it is not much difficult to determine that who is Muslim and who is not!
P-Charmer https://youtu.be/MpD5XkYQ6v0
Christopher Ayres, Do you realize that you just made a contradiction? To discredit another Islamic sect as false you would first have to prove your sect to be true. Since there is no evidence to prove any of them to be true then all of it is based on hearsay. Hearsay is not fact. It’s just somebody else’s personal opinion not based on any facts. Therefore your sect is just as true as any other sect because they are all false according to the evidence.
P-Charmer: I just told you that everybody who claims to be Muslim is not a Muslim. Then if a Shia who loves Abu Lo Lo Feroz kills a Muslim then we cannot say that a Muslim killed a Muslim. My point was that a Muslim cannot kill a Muslim.
Christopher Ayres: The Quran itself proves that Allah was incompetent. He chose a prophet that couldn’t read or write and he chose a language that was still in its infancy stage. The diacritical marks for vowels weren’t even invented in Arabic until the late 8th century. There’s not even a single book written before the uploaded Quran was written. I say supposed because there is no complete Quran anywhere near Muhammad’s timeline.
P-Charmer: Scientific errors may be only due to a wrong interpretation of Quran. Even Muslims make mistakes in interpreting Quran. If Muslims or other humans make mistakes in interpreting the Quran then that is not God's fault. Moreover, science is evolutionary and many things get refuted over time so science can also make mistakes.
P-Charmer: The whole world has only ONE Quran and if a Muslim removes a single word from Quran he will no longer be a Muslim. Muslims do not remove words from Quran.
Christopher Ayres If people are misinterpreting the Quran as you say then you have disproved Allah again because either he chose an infant language that isn’t translatable or man is able to alter his words which the Quran says you can’t. Either way, it proves he’s not god. We already know that his words were altered and unfinished for 1300 years so he’s instantly discredited.
Christopher Ayres, There are 29 different Arabic Qurans in circulation today. You really need to learn the facts of your religion. This is all public knowledge and irrefutable but you already know that because you never provide evidence to refute anything anybody says.
Abdul Moiz Khan Plz send me link to that's different Quran or
At least send me names ....????
P-Charmer There was not a single moment in messenger's life that was empty of the direct connection with God. The messenger always said what God revealed to him. Each and every word which the messenger said in His life was God's word.
Daniel Nelson lies...god doesn't murder people and molest children and have slaves.
Hassan S Ali Nothing wrong with Islam but with Muslims.
Christopher Ayres, Every religion is wrong because they are all easily discredited and a waste of life to adhere to a lie that’s 100% man-made.
Daniel Nelson false Muslims just follow the cult of Islam...and Islam is the problem.
Christopher Ayres Prove it because all the Hadith says he got the revelation from the angel Gabriel. Not once did Allah speak the words of a revelation to Muhammad. Not once.
Mohammed Anwar Nothing is wrong with the great religion Islam, it's the Muslims who are weak in their practice of Islam, Islam will remain until the end of the world.
Daniel Nelson false...the more violent Muslims are the more truly they follow Islam.
Aslam Khan no Islam means peace...Islam never supports the extremism.
Daniel Nelson Islam does not mean peace...don't lie to me...Islam means submission...and Islam has NEVER produced peace.
Khatana Gujjar Extremist view like Taliban Daish habitat etc.
Tanzeel Ur Rehman Chitrali There is nothing wrong with Islam....in fact it is the only true path....it is just a propaganda of western media to demonize Islam..simply a clash of civilization as expounded by Samuel Huntington...
Waqas Ahmed Dar Islam is the best religion and Muslims are the worst followers. (George Bernard Shaw)
Waqas Hafeez The problem with Islam is that it is the most modern of today's dominant religions and most of the teachings including Quran are well preserved.
And this is really a great problem as many religious people take it word for word, they aren't allowing any change to make it according to modern values and culture. So I would say Islam's modernity and well preserves is actually the biggest problem.
Alamzeb Jadoon Wrong with Islam is its followers. Nothing wrong with Islam.
Daniel Nelson false it's the religion and the people who follow it.
Alamzeb Jadoon :) I have my opinion
Daniel Nelson and your opinion is not backed up by any facts....or history....
Alamzeb Jadoon Freedom of speech brother
I have a lot of facts to satisfy myself. You may have yours
Al Gyan Islam is a man-made religion for a particular purpose, at a particular era and for particular tribal community.
Faiz A. Siddiqui There is nothing wrong with Islam rather a chunk of half-educated or uneducated people uses it as a tool for their greed to hold power.
Arsad Roy Afridi Islam is the best religion in the world the fault in followers we divide religion into parts. Islam teaches to love all
Riyaz Ahmed Zargar "Islam teaches to love all"..any reference from Quran to support this statement?
Arsad Roy Afraid No need the statement as a Muslim you should know more than me.
Riyaz Ahmed Zargar Not read whole Quran so seeking help from you!
Rajat Chopra Islam Doesn't teach to love all but just the followers of Islam only and even don't give equality to non-Muslims with Muslims. How could it be justified in the 21st century?
Arsad Roy Afridi Rajat Chopra I really respect you, my friend, I have more friends non-Muslims than Muslims and I respect them. We have food together, first you have to read Quran then you will come to know.
Al Gyan All religions are used as tools, at the present. Islam is widely being used as a tool. Then, Islam is not one religion, it is different for different Muslim.
Al Gyan I would not say, Islam is the best religion, as it is out of date now.The fact is, time does not stop for anything or for anybody. Time of camel riding is long gone, we are in jet age!
Ri Mee Well, if talking about religions then all Muslims beliefs are the same... Not like other religions. Let's take Hindu religion .. What their beliefs are?. If you ask them whom do you believe in? One is going to answer you, Ram. The other will answer you Maa Durga. The third will Shanker. The fourth will say Pashupatinath.And there are lots of other deities. But Muslim from anywhere in the world doesn't matter if they are from North or from South. Doesn't matter they are from Europe, Asia, Africa or the middle east. If you ask them who do u follow or believe in? Or on which path you are going on? You gonna hear just one name in one voice, Allah. LA ilaha Illa Allah!
Rajat Chopra no religion is bad but it's followers are ..who just interpret the verses with their self-desires.
Daniel Nelson false...PC nonsense..a religion that teaches its followers to kill Jews, to enslave Jews and Christians and to make war with nonbelievers is BAD.
Banu Ahmed Nothing wrong. Try to understand Quran in Arabic as much as possible.
P-Charmer Misinterpretation of verses is the fault of humans so it is not the fault of God or Islam. Right.
Daniel Nelson except Islam was never the writing of God, to begin with...
Al Gyan It is brain-conditioning of an individual. Generally, human lives a normal life.
Shoaib Masood Khan Nothing. It's a perfect religion, the only true and divine religion right now on planet Earth.
Khalid Jawed Nothing is wrong in Islam and everything is wrong in Musalmans.paradox or irony.
Rafaqat Ali Islam makes Muslim a wrong person ..human-hating person.
So everything is wrong in Islam Musalman is just human like any other human.
P-Charmer Khalid Jawed The term Muslim should be reserved for those who truly follow Islam. Because Muslim is not a name.
Khalid Jawed Rafaqat Ali So-called Musalman, it is a name only void of any spirit of their religion.
Khalid Jawed You are right dear P-Charmer but then what will be of census and identity?it is also a paradox.
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