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Post Rewards After 7 Days? .:. Ph's Shorts 🩳 by ph1102

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @ph1102 ·
$27.02
Post Rewards After 7 Days? .:. Ph's Shorts 🩳
My last "real" *Ph's Shorts 🩳* series post was published in July last year, so I could publicly admit I failed in running that series! 🙂 I remember when I joined this blockchain, I couldn't write a post over 300 words... I was struggling with a topic, I was struggling with describing my thoughts, I was struggling with everything... Today... Whenever I write a post that is Hive-related, I can't write a post shorter than 700-800 words, but sometimes, I really try to do it! The point of the *Ph's Shorts 🩳* series is to drop an idea in a few sentences and ignite the thought process in readers to brainstorm about it and leave a comment... Speaking about things is a well-known method to MAKE IT HAPPEN... So, let's do it!

<center>
![Rewards after 7 Days.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/ph1102/23wMMr3vuf5ecF3RtQwQbmA8FCiU1HRhaosAUu4wuUCFT58JrkYGyDrPP3V2QNoNCJTKo.jpg)
*Created on Canva.com*
</center>

One of the sparks to write this post was the comment section of the post where I wrote about the [value of HIVE content outside HIVE](https://ecency.com/hive-167922/@ph1102/the-value-of-hive-content-outside-hive-workerbee-phpool-week-204-eex)... There were many great comments (you should check them out!), but this by @macchiata stood out!

<center>
![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/ph1102/Eo44ERgbuU4fubyJxxXfXGYx5zK59FPtXzFFnoeCyKbqEfiXqdBjgzRP3tqNnL5SRw1.png)
</center>

As I do think that HIVE content is valuable, and not just for only 7 days, what Mac said, completely has sense... What is even more interesting, is how nobody had similar ideas before. I mean, I heard complaints that posts should be rewarded over the 7-day period, but there were no solutions provided on how to do it...

To be honest, I haven't heard any discussion about these things lately, and the latest was probably 2-3 years ago! In the meantime, many things have changed and the HIVE ecosystem has changed too... Unfortunately, certain things didn't stick, but even in failures, there is a lesson to be learned... 

<center>
![Liotes Divider Blue.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/ph1102/23tkbF4DcCGQEGiCeHeG4sUJewcA9b5MwubaESF9UnsbGiZjuEBo43Dsdseh7hKo2qwcG.png)
</center>

In one other post, there was a discussion about the "frontend competition" or better said, the lack of it... Now, why competition is important? It makes the final product(s) better... Now, imagine having an HIVE frontend that works as any other (current), but on top of it, it has a revenue sharing of post rewards as long as they attract visitors (and income)! Would you use that front end for all your actions if it existed? Of course, you would! 

**Problem.** It is hard to implement lifetime rewards to the current HIVE reward system... It would probably break the tokenomics and who knows what else more...

**Solution.** How about rewarding posts with additional tokens after those 7 days of HIVE payout? We have Hive-Engine tokens that could be used for something like that... If the front end would have more visits and more traffic, there would be better chances for monetizing it, which could lead to revenue-sharing... In that case, with the right distribution, we could solve 2 problems with 1 improvement! We would get a SELF-SUSTAINABLE front end that doesn't need DHF funding, and we would get more evergreen (more quality) content on HIVE (as people would be incentivized with "additional" rewards)! WIN-WIN!

##### I know this is a long shot, but it could be a good starting point for IMPROVING our "offer" that could make a difference... What do you think about this idea?

Thank you for your time,

--ph--

<center>
![Liotes Divider Blue.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/ph1102/23tkbF4DcCGQEGiCeHeG4sUJewcA9b5MwubaESF9UnsbGiZjuEBo43Dsdseh7hKo2qwcG.png)

## [👉 Vote for Liotes HIVE Witness HERE 👈](https://vote.hive.uno/@liotes)

Don't forget to **follow, reblog, and browse [my Hivepage](https://peakd.com/@ph1102)** to stay connected with all the great stuff!

**You can also find me on [Ecency](https://ecency.com/@ph1102) .:. [Twitter](https://twitter.com/ph1103)**
</center>
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@alex-rourke ·
$0.12
I love the idea of rewarding content past the 7 day payout window. 

1) I think we need to start considering the value-for-value philosophy more.   This means, if you find an old post valuable, why not give some value directly to that author.  here are two ways:
	a) Give a tip.  There's a tip button on every post page where you can give the author 1 $HBD for example.
	b) You can make a comment.  Even if it's an old post.  If the author responds to the comment, you can upvote the new comment and he/she will get some HP from the reward pool
2)Have a DHF proposal that goes searching for good quality content and does the above (tip or comment).

There are ways.
👍  
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@ph1102 ·
$0.31
> I think we need to start considering the value-for-value philosophy more.

This is probably the crucial thing that we should do... Unfortunately, those who try the "water of DHF or ValuePlan", want to drink it more... While the idea of DHF isn't bad, it can be very demotivating for some "external" business to build on HIVE... If I would like to launch my front end, I would have to compete not just with other well-established projects (which is normal when you start your business, so let's ignore that), but also against unfair competition which has "free funding"... That can be very discouraging from the outside perspective... 

That's were your "value-for-value" proposition comes into my mind... If you provide a quality service, you should be rewarded, but also you should be sustainable... In the end, that's just my 2c... 

There are ways to do it, the only thing that we need is dialogue in the first place... 😉
👍  
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@alohaed ·
$0.04
Added your post to Hive Journal on Reddit, with some additional explanatory material in the comments. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HiveJournal/comments/1hztx03/extending_hives_curation_rewards_window_beyond/
👍  
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@ph1102 ·
Thank you very much!! 💜
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@alohaed ·
$0.04
Interesting idea, and much to think about with respect to mechanics and creating the underlying Hive Power to make it function well.

I went back to an older post of your and left a comment there with some thoughts.
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@alohaed/re-ph1102-2025112t134613202z
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
Got it... :) Thanks for commenting... :)
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@bil.prag ·
$0.12
Leo was trying ads, they still have some ideas. Peakd is testing ads, still hard to track views because we all try to block tracking :D

Travelfeed had and option (think they still have it) where you could make your own blog page (it was pretty easy to set up) with ad placement if and how you want it. I think they never pushed it a lot because the interest for it was low.

Think peakd had an idea of easy setup of your own customizable blog. I think they abandoned it.

There are several communities that set up their own frontend, so they could potentially earn from higher view count. 

i am sure there would be someone who could make an option for you to create your own blog from your content (or even from parts of your content) if there was enough of an interest for it. 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
$0.19
I suppose that most experiments were abandoned because of the problem they encountered BEFORE going into ads... To get some revenue from your content you have to have traffic and a good SEO rank... As almost all HIVE frontends have issues with SEO (that we discussed a few days ago), there is not enough traffic to "make a difference"... 

Speaking of SEO, I heard some nice things about Travelfeed and its front end... Someone mentioned that they are doing fairly good work regarding SEO... That's good to hear... 
👍  
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@bil.prag ·
$0.04
that could be me :D i have no idea what are they doing but if it is written on Travelfeed SEO is kept on Travelfeed. I have 2 articles that are high ranked (easy to find) and every time i check it out it is travelfeed link. On other frontends it changes a lot, sometimes frontend even changes if i change one word in the search.

SEO is hard but there is the you yourself pushing the traffic there. For example i am small but i have posts that i know will get 100-200 views form outside. If there was and option to earn few cents on a frontend from ads, i would probably push the traffic there.
👍  
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@buttcoins ·
$0.10
Seems a pretty cool idea.  EG tokens.  I guess it about what brings value to that EG token.
👍  
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@ph1102 ·
> I guess it about what brings value to that EG token.

Yeah, especially that... It's hard to build a token printed from nothing and make them valuable... That's why it would be great to see those EG tokens "backed by" something, some revenue... What @alex-rourke said, is a value-for-value proposition... If EG tokens are valuable, to reward good posts with them would be fair and most logical!
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@buttcoins ·
$0.04
Yeah, I guess if your purpose is to reward, buying EG would be the value for value.
I guess it the speculation aspect that would screw it up.
Maybe it could be a peg to remove the factor of speculation.
lol… sounds like a lot of dev work beyond my pay grade 🤣
👍  
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vote details (1)
@cmplxty ·
$0.10
I think for older content we should have a different token or different ability - we can get assets on the post but any returns on it are only available as paid out stake and it’s not withdrawable for 6 months. I don’t think those are unreasonable things to try and require but it might be a nightmare to program lol. 

We do need a way to improve our SEO beyond 7 days and incentive it!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
> we can get assets on the post but any returns on it are only available as paid out stake and it’s not withdrawable for 6 months.

That's not a bad idea at all... Anything that would keep people on their toes could work... If you want your rewards, come 6 months later and claim them!
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@cmplxty ·
$0.03
I think the rewards could be paid out in a shorter timeframe but they are time-locked for 6 months after payout, whenever that payout is. That way it reduces the siphoning of the system we are seeing now with bad actors. 
👍  
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@dantrin ·
$0.10
Rewarding post with good content after 7 days is fine for me. Some people read blogs which they can learn.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
There is a lot of content that can be "used" after their "7-day expiration"... They have value and we should find a way how to reward that content...  
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@darth-azrael ·
$0.10
There was talk for a while over on Leo about "evergreen" content and using ad revenue to reward posts indefinitely. Not really sure what happened with that.
👍  
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@ph1102 ·
There were experiments about it, but unfortunately, we never got any public results of them... To see if it's worth or not doing it... 
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@davideownzall ·
$0.12
Hm but how would be rewarded? I mean still with upvotes or just by view? Because if we attract people outside hive that found a particular link they will not upvote, but by view will be abusable... And the token used as reward might get hard inflated 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
For example, advertising companies have strict rules when they show ads, and if it is done as a revenue share model, it is very hard to be rigged or inflated... There are tools that can distinguish human visitors from bots...
👍  
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vote details (1)
@davideownzall ·
$0.04
Would need some of the hive front-end to develop that, like ecency, Leo or peakd tough or even a new front-end why not
👍  
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vote details (1)
@fiberfrau ·
$0.04
!BBH !HBIT
👍  
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vote details (1)
@hivebits ·
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@gadrian · (edited)
$0.26
Ads are a pretty bad idea on Hive at this point, in my opinion, given the reduced number of users and their concentration in countries where advertisers pay very low prices for ads.

Maybe we should learn a bit from Web 2 too, since they are experts in advertising revenue online. They are learning from Web 3 in other aspects. FB for example, had no ads on their platform until they passed 1m users or so. And they were all from the US, where advertisers pay very well for such potential customers.

I am thinking that something at L2 makes sense. Maybe not on Hive-Engine. Here's my rough idea at the moment. It probably needs smart contracts to work. I haven't thought enough about it, so it may not be feasible or maybe could be improved. But here it is:

Based on the HP a curator has and a multiplication factor (likely between 0 and 1, so, practically a divider of the HP amount), they receive a regular airdrop of an L2 token used for rewarding older posts. Maybe instead of the HP amount, the curation rewards from the last 30 days should be considered, or something like that.

The multiplication factor starts high and lowers over time if the curator doesn't gift  some of the received tokens to old content. Increases again if they become active in curating old content.

The L2 tokens airdropped can be sold, transferred, or gifted as an additional reward for old content. By gifting it, one ensures a higher multiplier for a higher airdrop of the same token. If they sell or transfer it, the multiplier drops because they don't gift it.

The receiver of the gift can at their turn gift it to others and increase their own multiplier, or sell it and cash out.

I hope I haven't missed anything important. Let me know what you think. I know it's complicated, but it is an idea.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@ph1102 ·
$0.04
> FB for example, had no ads on their platform until they passed 1m users or so.

hehehe... I watched the movie [The Social Network](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1285016) where "Zuck" mentioned that he doesn't want to monetize it until they reach a lot of traffic... which I 100% agree with... Thinking about rewarding old content makes no sense if we don't do the SEO part of the story, which could bring traffic and views... In the end, (real) VIEWS are the best metric of how good (valuable/money) is some post... Because of that, while I like some of your ideas about the token, it would still be a "subjective" way to reward some (older post)... This is fine, but it is kind of a copy of the current system... I suppose it would be probably abused in some way... 

It is like a tipping system, which could work... It could still have a "motivating" factor that people do better (evergreen) content... 

Btw. you should create a token and experiment... It can be a useful experience... :)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@gadrian ·
$0.04
> Btw. you should create a token and experiment... It can be a useful experience... :)

What I said isn't easy to do. It requires some programming, assuming it would be possible on a platform with smart contracts (VSC or another).

>  In the end, (real) VIEWS are the best metric of how good (valuable/money) is some post... 

Views are relevant in the context of advertising, maybe they can even show the real reach of posts (I've been a proponent of a unified views tracking system across all Hive interfaces - I don't think we will see this). They can still be artificially inflated, especially if they determine how big rewards are. SEO might lose from its relevance. It already did, since all major social media have internal search engines, and lots of it is for users only and inaccessible for googlebot to index. Now AI came to the table to diminish its role even more.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@topcomment ·
<center>
**Your comment is upvoted by [@topcomment](https://peakd.com/@topcomment)**
[![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/topcomment/EpGRgMJ92JzvktbWphJhBiKrsNYoqLrXvTGH5yP9offkMeLLFZ7PrCbT1T4SfMDC5NS.png)](https://peakd.com/@topcomment)
<center>
**[More info](https://peakd.com/hive-148441/@topcomment/rewarding-meaningful-comments-with-topcomment) - [Support @topcomment](https://peakd.com/hive/@topcomment/support-topcomment-a-delegation-and-earn-80percent-curation-rewards) - [Discord](https://discord.gg/u7ebA2QKCd)**
</center> 
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@incublus ·
$0.14
When I first joined Hive, I thought “why do we have to wait 7 days?” but then it made sense because if it's 1 day, a lot of malicious people can use it for farming. There are still people who do that, but it's easier to be detected in 7 days.

Of course I know you're talking about something different, I just thought I'd mention it because it occurred to me. I think the only way for now is to send the author some Hive! I've done this in the past for Hive Gaming via @ocd, sending liquid Hive to users who commented great and to users whose posts got less rewards than they deserved. 
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@ph1102 ·
$0.06
Yeah, ABUSE is always present and people will always find ways how to abuse the system... On us is to create a solid way to reward those who do the work, and "mute" those who try to cheat... 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@jfang003 ·
$0.12
@jfang003 "I think it depends. The 7 day structure was built ..."
I think it depends. The 7 day structure was built to stop people from abusing the system, but SEO itself is hard on Hive. We have too many front-ends with the same content so all of them are competing with each other. I don't have any good solutions.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
> We have too many front-ends with the same content so all of them are competing with each other.

It is true that they have the same content, but some tweaks are possible to implement... And regarding competition, tbh, I don't see too much of it... 
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@josediccus ·
$0.12
I think the tokenomics or the system will suffer when there are rewards beyond the 7 days payout. I think it's possible we find other creative ways to do it. However, I just don't think we're that powerhouse. There are issues like the debt ratio and the HBD APR, other expenses like the value plan expenses and all that.. except perhaps we get huge external investors
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
Because of all that you mentioned, my thinking process went into generating real income ("from the outside") and integrating it into some revenue share model... For example, rewarding in a "second" token that is backed by income from ads, or something similar... 
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@libertycrypto27 ·
$0.08
@tipu curate
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@ph1102 ·
Thanks for your curation! Appreciated! 🙏
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@tipu ·
<a href="https://tipu.online/hive_curator?libertycrypto27" target="_blank">Upvoted  &#128076;</a> (Mana: 36/46) <a href="https://peakd.com/hive/@reward.app/reward-app-quick-guide-updated" target="_blank">Liquid rewards</a>.
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@r1s2g3 ·
$0.12
"Leoads" was step in the same direction and it is now scrapped, I guess.

I guess, another problem in Hive is very well explained in acidiyo post

https://peakd.com/rant/@acidyo/value

It  require top to down effort to think and implement, whether sharing ad revenue, frontend competition and so on.

👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
Yeah, we had a similar discussion a few days ago on one of my blogs too... It's hard to define value, but there is value... THe problem is how to present it in the best way, which means more work on SEO and bringing more exposure to the content... 
Without views, and good page rank, there is nothing to (revenue) share... 🙂
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@redditposh ·
https://www.reddit.com/r/HiveJournal/comments/1hzttld/extending_hives_curation_reward_window_of_7days_a/
<sub> The rewards earned on this comment will go directly to the people( @alohaed ) sharing the post on Reddit as long as they are registered with @poshtoken. Sign up at https://hiveposh.com. Otherwise, rewards go to the author of the blog post.</sub>
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@relf87 · (edited)
$0.12
Hmm it's an interesting thought. I think it's more art than science so there's no magic number. I think any reasonable number, be it the current 7, or 10, or 14, would actually be okay. 1 month and beyond is probably stretching it a little but I thought anyway, everyone is being constrained by the voting mana as well.

P.S. Are tipping posts lifetime? If so, actually there is already a lifetime reward mechanism in place.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
$0.03
Changing the current HIVE setup can trigger many other problems down the line... So, I'm not sure that it would be a good way to do it... But, I'm not an expert in HIVE tokenomics... 

> P.S. Are tipping posts lifetime? If so, actually there is already a lifetime reward mechanism in place.

Yes, tipping is a lifetime... You can tip old posts... I think that someone mentioned in the comments of this post a good idea of commenting, and rewards it in this way the author when he replies... Slick idea... :)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@relf87 ·
$0.04
> But, I'm not an expert in HIVE tokenomics

Neither am I haha!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@seckorama ·
$0.11
That sounds like a good idea to me, a second token for a lifetime; let's say you reduce it to three years or something.
But isn't it the same with H-E tokens set to 7 days? Is it possible to change that?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
$0.06
At this moment, yes, most tribe tokens have the 7-day payout schedule... 

But, for example, you have some sort of ads (or other source income for your front end), you follow the impressions on posts, and share those rewards in the form of tokens weekly/monthly with authors... In that way, distribution would be fair as those who attract the most views would get the biggest share...

It is a bit of thinking outside the box, but it could be done... 
👍  , , , , , ,
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vote details (7)
@seckorama ·
$0.04
Hmm, I don't understand the commercials thing; then there's the question of what to do with views that come from outside, not from Hive, etc...
I would think it would have to be a token, a finite number of them, like BTC, for example, to be spent in a year.
Otherwise, the main problem is from where it would be generated to have some basis...
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tht ·
$0.08
There may be a separate prize pool for the next 7 days and these should be in periods. Prize pool for the last 3 months, prize pool for the last 12 months, prize pool for the last 2-3-4-5-6-7 years. There should be only HBD distribution.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
Sorry, but I didn't get your idea... Can you elaborate on it?
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@travoved ·
$0.11
It's good idea to be rewarded and after 7days. Back to the memories I saw/heard such suggestions, if I'm not wrong, somewhere at Leofinance from creators, but I don't know how it has been finished or just stayed as idea. Anyway I think here will be enough people who will support such initiative! 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ph1102 ·
$0.02
Maybe some ultra-great-developer creates a new frontend with something similar implemented... I would like to see it! 
👍  ,
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