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πŸ”₯πŸ”₯Are you an Anarchist? - I'll tear down every one of your arguments πŸ”₯πŸ”₯ by satire

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· @satire · (edited)
πŸ”₯πŸ”₯Are you an Anarchist? - I'll tear down every one of your arguments πŸ”₯πŸ”₯
<h3>https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Hoan4OykIV2vzH2/giphy.gif</h3>
<h3>Brief post.</h3>
<p><br /></p>
<h3>There's been a recent depiction of Anarchic governance as this pink-clouded peace 'n love-convention.Β </h3>
<p><br /></p>
<h3>While I always enjoy a bit of political marketing, I'm sufficiently ideologically engaged to strip away the paint, and reveal the harsh truth.</h3>
<p><br /></p>
<h3>I will be actively engaging with Anarchists, and exposing the reality of the systems they endorse.</h3>
<p><br /></p>
<h3>I don't really care about a post-reward penalty, I intend to barrage the space with Β logical, concise ideology-demolishing posts.</h3>
<p><br /></p>
<h3>You may have debated @positive before (account no longer belongs to me).</h3>
<p><br /></p>
<h3>My style will be much more targeted and less sophistic than before.</h3>
<p><br /></p>
<h3>Mentions:Β </h3>
<p><br /></p>
<h3>Crypto-land for developing in me a stark cynicism, though the ruthless self interest and manipulative marketing employed in the space.</h3>
<p><br /></p>
<p><br /></p>
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
πŸ‘Ž  
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vote details (15)
@ats-david ·
I have zero faith in you "tearing down" any argument, based on what I've seen here so far. 

Good luck with your upvotes.
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@satire ·
Good thing you don't need to rely on faith to confirm things!
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@christowner ·
$0.03
Ok, how about starting by explaining how all human interactions should not be voluntary, and how it is moral to deprive another of consent in any such interaction, by force coercion, or fraud.
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vote details (12)
@satire ·
Except from a very small set of physical interactions, human interactions are by definition voluntary .

In any human interaction provided sufficient consensus is reached, other people will be deprived of consent if it is in the interests of the former group that has  achieved consensus.
πŸ‘  
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@alexriethmeier ·
What?
πŸ‘  
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@christowner ·
Interactions that are skewed from the course one would naturally be inclined to take by coercion or threat of violence do not count as voluntary. Example paying taxes to fund programs and actions one does not condone. No one does this voluntarily, they do it to avoid a direct threat to their freedom and ultimately their life. In answer to the second paragraph... Any consensus short of voluntary unanimity is not valid as it deprives any who do not agree of their consent if it is enforced. The only morally acceptable instance of depriving another of their consent is in response to their attempt to deprive another of theirs.
πŸ‘  , ,
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@craigwilliamz ·
I accidentally voted up for this post. Anyway to change that?
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@blocktrades ·
Just click on the upvote again and it will ask if u want to remove it.
πŸ‘  
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@craigwilliamz ·
I get this error ```Transaction failed: abs_rshares > 30000000: voting weight is too small, please accumulate more voting power or steem power``` 
I must be too new.
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@cryptobarry ·
Is that a gif of Fred Savage?
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@satire ·
No idea who that is tbh. Copied it from a site
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@telos ·
Yes, it's Fred Savage from his new show The Grinder.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@dooglio ·
Should goods and services be offered over the barrel of a gun? Yes or no.
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@dooglio ·
So, Satire. Did you want to answer the question?
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@satire ·
Just woke up.
πŸ‘  
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@dwinblood ·
Ahha - that's where you went an hid. :)

Didn't you already have this debate?   Though that was Technocratic Democracy vs Anarchism...  

You began with... <a href="https://steemit.com/politics/@positive/response-to-dwinblood-anarchism-not-for-the-individual-debate-politics-anarchism-debate-democracy">this</a>
To which I said <a href="https://steemit.com/anarchy/@dwinblood/technocratic-democracy-or-anarchism-whichever-is-chosen-i-believe-positive-has-some-things-to-reconsider">that</a>
and then you responded with <a href="https://steemit.com/steemit/@positive/response-to-dwinblood-out-debate-positive-never-the-individual-is-not-the-system-steemit-anarchism">this</a>
Which received this response from <a href="https://steemit.com/anarchism/@dwinblood/reponse-to-positive-debate-if-you-see-no-blood-is-that-proof-of-no-wound-non-voluntary-system-is-force">me</a>
And you followed up <a href="https://steemit.com/steemit/@positive/response-to-dwinblood-representative-government-is-great-just-need-better-reps-steemit-anarchism">with</a>
And my response <a href="https://steemit.com/anarchism/@dwinblood/response-to-positive-representative-government-and-organizations-are-highly-susceptible-to-corruption-steemit-anarchism">was</a>  images broken steemit down... when came up wouldn't let me edit so see comments for image

Your final response to that was:
<blockquote>To be fair, you make good points. And I have a lot to take away from our brief but interesting exchange. I will reply only if I feel as though I can add some extra value. Thanks for this!</blockquote>

@larkenrose wasn't here for that one.   You also sold your @positive account and I wondered where you'd hung your new hat.
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@satire ·
haha! I'll certainly respond to you now :)
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@dwinblood ·
Staying within the character of your new name?
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@inertia ·
@satire, what is your favorite government program?
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@satire ·
Program as in Welfare?
If you mean system, then delegative technocracy.
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@inertia · (edited)
| Pick your favorite one: |
|:-:|
| [![Death and Taxes](http://img14.deviantart.net/af9d/i/2006/260/9/f/death_and_taxes__2007_by_mibi.jpg)](http://img14.deviantart.net/af9d/i/2006/260/9/f/death_and_taxes__2007_by_mibi.jpg) |
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@inertia ·
[It's a waste of time to debate this topic with @satire.](https://steemit.com/tag/@inertia/re-satire-anarchy-exposed-response-to-larkenrose-s-political-mythology-101-part-one-20160809t183552817z)
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@jakemccauley ·
His name is Satire. I think he's one of us.
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@satire ·
My satire is directed at forex charts and miscellaneous political figures. I really do believe most pro-Anarchists are victims of marketing by political-swindlers.
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@l0k1 ·
I didn't fully turn my stance until I read Ludwig von Mises 'Human Action'. Mises did absolute acrobatics in that book to not straight up say that government distorts markets and destroys wealth. His analysis of the omnipotent/omniscient God idea was delightfully cut short of drawing any conclusions as well.

If you by your use of the word 'anarchist' you mean the reds who walk around blissfully ignorant that their leveling of the economic playing field requires central authority and a ruling class to organise enforcers, then I agree. Anarchy in the sense of the natural state and even right now this voluntary exchange that you have started and I have chosen to enter into...

I love how this platform brings a sense of competition into discussions like I haven't experienced since I was striving to win karma points on The Hive.
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@johnnyhurley ·
These are serious questions and not meant to be threatening in any way. Would you stop someone from raping you and murdering your family? Would you stop someone from entering your house and emptying it of all your possessions by force? It sounds like if it is in your interests, you will do these things to others, is that correct? What is it that would make you want to stop people from doing terrible things to you? Would that not be the same or a very similar reason someone would try to stop you from doing those terrible things to them? Is that not the very foundation of morality and natural law: don't do shit to people that you wouldn't want them to do to you? There is only one true moral system, the one we were born with, the one that is inherent to our nature.
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@satire ·
If they're optimal decision relative to my interests, then as far as I'm concerned, I would.
Though in reality actions involving violence are generally not optimal.

I'm only concerned with protecting my interests, I don't care about reciprocity in general (i.e. do unto others...etc etc)
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@larkenrose ·
$0.02
You could start by being clear about your OWN position, by answering these questions:

1 -  Is there any means by which any number of individuals can delegate to someone else the moral right to do something which none of the individuals have the moral right to do themselves?

2 - Do those who wield political power (presidents, legislators, etc.) have the moral right to do things which other people do not have the moral right to do? If so, from whom and how did they acquire such a right?

3 - Is there any process (e.g., constitutions, elections, legislation) by which human beings can transform an immoral act into a moral act (without changing the act itself)?

4 - When law-makers and law-enforcers use coercion and force in the name of law and government, do they bear the same responsibility for their actions that anyone else would who did the same thing on his own?

5 - When there is a conflict between an individual's own moral conscience, and the commands of a political authority, is the individual morally obligated to do what he personally views as wrong in order to "obey the law"?
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vote details (44)
@christowner · (edited)
Beat me to it Larken.... That said, morality that does not take into account the natural individual right to free will and self ownership, is not morality, but a morally deficient opinion. The fact is you cannot destroy anarchist arguements, you can only deflect and talk circles around the actual points
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@satire ·
We'll see.
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@satire · (edited)
1.  "Is there any means?..." Well of course there is. I think you're asking if this is right? Which moral system do you prescribe to? 
2. This depends on the moral system you subscribe to.
3. As above
4. Not necessarily, depends on the nature of their appointment, and the effect on the wider system of governance. Strictly speaking though, this depends on the nature of the governance system.  
5. I live in a world of self interests, and making optimal decisions relative to these interests. I don't subscribe to a particular moral system. 
If I were that individual I would let my actions be dictated by whether or not they were in my interests.
πŸ‘  ,
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@inertia ·
Since there is a moral system that one can subscribe to that allows you to convert something immoral into something moral, please have a look at this: [The Magic Threshold](https://steemit.com/political/@inertia/how-to-explain-that-taxation-is-theft-using-the-magic-threshold)

>Basically, the point I'm trying to make here is that taxation is theft. It seems to me that the average person believes taxation is not theft. They believe theft is immoral and taxation is just not seen as immoral. I'm going to question this notion. The basis is that if one person "taxes" you, it's theft. But if multiple people tax you, somehow it's not theft (assuming they've taken the necessary precaution of writing words on paper, also known as "law").
πŸ‘  , ,
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@larkenrose ·
For the first three, you answered a question with a question. The fourth was meaningless politician evasion. The fifth was an excuse to not answer. I'm done.
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@matthewmencel ·
he was asking you to answer these questions within the moral system that you subscribe to.   You probably want to retry this one.  Sophistry isn't going to go anywhere.
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@somethingsea · (edited)
First off, "Anarchic governance" is a contradiction in terms.

Second: "Anarchists, and exposing the reality of the systems they endorse."
What? There's just one system: systematic voluntary interactions and the recognition of the consistent application of rights in society.

Third, you did a terrible job answering Larken Rose's questions, and you admitted to moral relativism. If you do not subscribe to any sort of definite morality, you have no means of having an intelligent discussion regarding any sort or form of morality (way of living).

Your only strength, thus, is and will be clever word games and evasion. You will not be pleasant to talk with, and the only upvotes you will or can get will be those who just enjoy drama for the sake of drama.

I'll put some words in your mouth, which you'll hate and will entirely focus on, but your behavior is scum-ish, and I want people to see clearly what they're dealing with when they talk with you: by saying that you perscribe to "a world of self interests" your moral code is that of Self-Interest, which means that you live by that which is in your interest. 

That means that other people, water, food, and so forth are in your interest, assuming that you want to live, which I think is a decent assumption. If you don't, then disregard this comment, as well as the entirety of the steemit website. You won't need it if you're dead.

The requirements for the satisfaction of your self-interest are the consistent application of rules in society because without that, your Self will be in poverty, as is currently the case, since a society based on inconsistently-applied rules where there are exceptions to the rules (rulers) is one where poverty is the constant and the norm, such as this one.

Therefore, you, while pandering to the notion that you do not subscribe to a moral code, subscribe to the moral code of self-interest, and this conflict and dissonance of thought is the core of your contention that anarchists advocate "systems" and types of "governance".

You are an extremely confused individual, which is why the likes of Larken Rose was like, 
"Eh. Yuck."

As I expected, you're full of hot air. Fitting that you're on steemit.
And hey, if your name is what you're doing... somewhat decent job.
But you really need to take more of a position. You're boring as fuck.
πŸ‘  ,
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@satire ·
https://steemit.com/anarchism/@satire/anarchism-exposed-part-1-clarifying-my-stance-and-defining-anarchism

My stance
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@satire ·
Just replied to your post.

https://steemit.com/anarchism/@satire/anarchy-exposed-response-to-larkenrose-s-political-mythology-101-part-one
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@matthewlm ·
I would converse with you but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXB-5MbKBgs
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@mistowed ·
All I want to know, is, do you want to violently rule my life?
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@mistowed ·
Wait. Is "Satire" supposed to be taken as it implies? 
- Answers does sseem to hint that way. xD
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@satire ·
This post was admittedly clickbait, but I'm actually serious, consider checking my new post.
My point is that Anarchism offers no escape from centralization of power, and restriction of freedom.
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@neoxian · (edited)
$0.34
Edit: flag removed.

Flagged for tag spam.
This is not an #introduceyourself (sorry)
πŸ‘  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@satire · (edited)
$0.34
Fair enough bro.
Keep up the good work :)
πŸ‘  
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@satire ·
Removed
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@neoxian ·
Thank you, flag removed.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@peterjhendrick ·
In what way can threatening the mass of people with incarceration unless they pay tithe (or tax if you prefer) be considered good for the utility of society?
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@satire ·
How do governance systems emerge?
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@peterjhendrick ·
Well, you avoided my question completely.

But government systems emerge in the same way that crime emerges, one or more individuals takes it upon themselves to act hegemonically toward others. In government systems, the hegemony is obscured and even encouraged by those under the rule of the criminal. Yet, in no way is social utility greater than it would be without this criminal hegemony, regardless of the err in acting by those who support the hegemony.

So I ask you again. In what way can hegemonical extortion of the masses be a positive force for social utility?
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@pmc777 ·
Your  opening sentence is a dichotomy as in 'Anarchic governance'
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@satire ·
I meant governance in the very general sense not as in a centralized government.
The nature of human interactions in the system.
πŸ‘  
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@satire ·
@christowner
>The same way you prevent free individuals from refusing to be governed..... You can't.
That said, the goal of most anarchism activists is to tear down the common acceptance of the idea that there can be any right to rule over another, as an individual or as a collective, until there are too many who have shaken off the myth of authority for any "voluntarily elected government" to ever enforce their will, on a large scale, on those who do not consent.

What you are defining is a refined representative government, which I'm all for.

You don't actually seem to be opposed in any sense to representative government, just a notion of entitled authority.
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@seedsofliberty ·
Supporting slavery isnt cool man. not cool at all. -D

Anarchy is a system - every blind statist ever
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@terryallen ·
In the words of Mick Jagger:

"Anarchy is the last glimmer of hope.

Unless we put an end to all forms of government, government will end mankind.

Death by democide is the biggest killer on the earth bar none.  

We all have a moral duty to wake up those who are in a trance and who blindly follow orders.   There would be no tyrants if there were no order followers and the defence of following orders is no longer a defence in a court of Law, Nueremberg saw to that.
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@thatguyjay ·
I like your writing style.

Bold statements.

Line breaks.
πŸ‘  ,
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