Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept. by skriptroid

View this thread on: hive.blog | peakd.com | ecency.com

ethereum · @skriptroid · Jun 27 '16

$4.25

Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept.

<html>
I can see there is a trend to adopt a soft fork that involves Ethereum too, not just DAO. Of course this is the type of situation that shouldn't be allowed. The DAO incosistencies are now effecting Ethereum, and all that is managed by the community is to make the "hacker" shoot down two projects with one "bullet".
The funds drained in terms of Ethereum doesn't worth the trouble and reputation loss that comes with the forks. If they want to save DAO they should just suspend operations and fix all detected inadequacies. In any case the "hacker" will either cash out, so it will not affect for long time the Ethereum since there is some kind of PoS involved, or if he doesn't he will be able to provide some kind of leadership that Ethereum clearly lacks of.
I notice some people trying to draw parallels between the existing social structures, legal, economic, etc. and the ones currently in the making in the crypto world, especially on the level of principles and the philosophy that actually made it possible. Some of them even dismiss the whole "trustless" concept and support their fork case using nonsensical arguments, according to my opinion.
I believe it is just another example of the difficulty to prompt individuals think and act differently in a new context or framework that is crypto economy, as we are all born and raised in a legacy one.
I was never involved in the purchase of Ethereum or DAO for that reason. Despite all the fuzz about it, I was never convinced that the leadership is sound, along the economics foundation which clearly suffers. That for, I will not have an actual say in the process, thankfully. Still though, writting about it may influence other crypto developers avoid such mistakes.
</html>

👍 fuzzyvest, yuri-safin, skriptroid, innuendo, andrew-brine, jparty, ori

`author`	skriptroid
`permlink`	forking-frenzy-untrustless-proof-of-concept
`category`	ethereum
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["ethereum","cryptocurrencies"]}
`created`	2016-06-27 09:47:57
`last_update`	2016-06-27 09:47:57
`depth`	0
`children`	9
`last_payout`	2016-08-19 17:00:48
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	2.124 HBD
`curator_payout_value`	2.123 HBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`promoted`	0.000 HBD
`body_length`	1,777
`author_reputation`	563,630,330,217
`root_title`	"Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept."
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 HBD
`percent_hbd`	10,000
`post_id`	45,017
`net_rshares`	5,562,502,384,570
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (7)

voter	rshares	pct
fuzzyvest	5,560,696,291,835	100%
yuri-safin	443,021,468	100%
ori	142,266,543	100%
skriptroid	353,420,671	100%
innuendo	336,110,361	100%
andrew-brine	329,254,829	100%
jparty	202,018,863	100%

@fuzzyvest · Jun 27 '16

the problem also exists on the opposite end.  when there is a real way to give the chain to the people, the people often do not show up to vote (or even set a representative to vote for them!) 

overall i think it will not hurt ethereum (simply because its marketcap is 5-10x most other cyptos)...people will go back and put their money back into it either way, though the demographic to put said money back in will vary based on the decision to be made.  I always prefer the community has a voice, but man it doesn't look like ethereum has any way to deal with that.

properties (22)

`author`	fuzzyvest
`permlink`	re-skriptroid-forking-frenzy-untrustless-proof-of-concept-20160627t102744478z
`category`	ethereum
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["ethereum"]}
`created`	2016-06-27 10:27:45
`last_update`	2016-06-27 10:27:45
`depth`	1
`children`	0
`last_payout`	2016-08-19 17:00:48
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`promoted`	0.000 HBD
`body_length`	567
`author_reputation`	16,076,269,237,260
`root_title`	"Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept."
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 HBD
`percent_hbd`	10,000
`post_id`	45,037
`net_rshares`	0

@innuendo · Jun 27 '16 (edited)

> I believe it is just another example of the difficulty to prompt individuals think and act differently in a new context or framework that is crypto economy, as we are all born and raised in a legacy one.

I fully agree.

This is something I've been trying to say in my posts and comments: blockchain is not only a new type of technology but also a new type of mindset. If we adopt the new technology but keep the same old mindset nothing will really change. 

The blockchain itself cannot enforce a new mindset, it's up to the people to embrace it. The way the DAO incident has been resolved is a big step backward in this respect.

👍 tie-warutho

`author`	innuendo
`permlink`	re-skriptroid-forking-frenzy-untrustless-proof-of-concept-20160627t103745946z
`category`	ethereum
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["ethereum"]}
`created`	2016-06-27 10:37:45
`last_update`	2016-06-27 10:40:30
`depth`	1
`children`	6
`last_payout`	2016-08-19 17:00:48
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`promoted`	0.000 HBD
`body_length`	633
`author_reputation`	31,739,740,997,875
`root_title`	"Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept."
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 HBD
`percent_hbd`	10,000
`post_id`	45,043
`net_rshares`	412,202,179
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
tie-warutho	0 B		412,202,179	100%

@sean-king · Jun 27 '16

If you are counting on people's "mindset" to secure a blockchain, you're screwed.  Game theory incentives secure blockchains, pure and simple.  Either those incentives are effective at doing that, in which case your concern of the long-term prospects of Ethereum are misplaced, or they are not, in which case blockchains are doomed whether they fork on not.

👍 brianreecegreen

`author`	sean-king
`permlink`	re-innuendo-re-skriptroid-forking-frenzy-untrustless-proof-of-concept-20160627t180351060z
`category`	ethereum
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["ethereum"]}
`created`	2016-06-27 18:03:51
`last_update`	2016-06-27 18:03:51
`depth`	2
`children`	5
`last_payout`	2016-08-19 17:00:48
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`promoted`	0.000 HBD
`body_length`	357
`author_reputation`	84,123,051,136,467
`root_title`	"Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept."
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 HBD
`percent_hbd`	10,000
`post_id`	45,307
`net_rshares`	55,333,052
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
brianreecegreen	0 B		55,333,052	100%

@innuendo · Jun 28 '16 (edited)

I could say this: "Unless you are counting on the army of your own country not to take power by a military coup, you're screwed". Are you screwed then? I don't think so. The military power of your country has the power to do whatever it wants but this does not mean that it is legal for it to do so or  that ordinary citizens should feel frightened or "screwed".

There are always internal powers capable of destroying a state (or a network like blockchain). Yet this does not mean such a state (or network) cannot exist and be stable in the long run. It's all a matter of aligning incentives in such a way that those who have the power to violate the primary consensus never actually use this power.

What is happening in Ethereum right now is a group of users (we can even assume it's a majority) asks the miners to commit a lawless act. The miners obviously have the power to do it but having the power is not equal to having the legal right. It can be resilient  to external threats, but internally a blockchain is a delicate mechanism which can be easily thrown off balance by the block producers.

If you haven't done so, please read [this remarkable post](https://urbit.org/blog/dao/) by Curtis Yarvin. He explains this better than I ever could.

properties (22)

`author`	innuendo
`permlink`	re-sean-king-re-innuendo-re-skriptroid-forking-frenzy-untrustless-proof-of-concept-20160627t194358302z
`category`	ethereum
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["ethereum"],"links":["https://urbit.org/blog/dao/"]}
`created`	2016-06-27 19:43:57
`last_update`	2016-06-28 08:42:21
`depth`	3
`children`	3
`last_payout`	2016-08-19 17:00:48
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`promoted`	0.000 HBD
`body_length`	1,252
`author_reputation`	31,739,740,997,875
`root_title`	"Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept."
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 HBD
`percent_hbd`	10,000
`post_id`	45,381
`net_rshares`	0

3 replies

@skriptroid · Jun 28 '16

I am not counting on them to secure it. I am counting on them to use it to build entirely new social, economic, finance, governance, etc. structures. I think it is clear in the context.

properties (22)

`author`	skriptroid
`permlink`	re-sean-king-re-innuendo-re-skriptroid-forking-frenzy-untrustless-proof-of-concept-20160628t233147860z
`category`	ethereum
`json_metadata`	{"tags":["ethereum"]}
`created`	2016-06-28 23:34:30
`last_update`	2016-06-28 23:34:30
`depth`	3
`children`	0
`last_payout`	2016-08-19 17:00:48
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`promoted`	0.000 HBD
`body_length`	185
`author_reputation`	563,630,330,217
`root_title`	"Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept."
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 HBD
`percent_hbd`	10,000
`post_id`	46,468
`net_rshares`	0

@ori · Aug 4 '16

$0.07

Upvoted you

👍 noaommerrr

`author`	ori
`permlink`	re-forking-frenzy-untrustless-proof-of-concept
`category`	ethereum
`json_metadata`	{}
`created`	2016-08-04 15:34:27
`last_update`	2016-08-04 15:34:27
`depth`	1
`children`	0
`last_payout`	2016-08-19 17:00:48
`cashout_time`	1969-12-31 23:59:59
`total_payout_value`	0.051 HBD
`curator_payout_value`	0.016 HBD
`pending_payout_value`	0.000 HBD
`promoted`	0.000 HBD
`body_length`	11
`author_reputation`	3,136,176,291,039
`root_title`	"Forking frenzy... untrustless proof of concept."
`beneficiaries`	`[]`
`max_accepted_payout`	1,000,000.000 HBD
`percent_hbd`	10,000
`post_id`	603,703
`net_rshares`	134,269,444,062
`author_curate_reward`	""

properties (23)vote details (1)

voter	weight	wgt%	rshares	pct	time
noaommerrr	0 B		134,269,444,062	100%