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Tearing down statues does not change history by steevc

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· @steevc ·
$12.88
Tearing down statues does not change history
Statues seem to be in the news a lot recently. I just read [this piece](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery) on why we should take down statues of Lord Nelson as he supported slavery. I'm sure lots of people would be against that as they are popular monuments. A lot of these monuments had some political purpose at the time. The current heroes may be re-assessed later. The UK has a dark history of conquest and slavery, but that is the past and we cannot change it. I am not for taking down all the old statues as long as we put them in context. I just think that too many statues go up generally. 

Of course some groups love symbols and statues are one form of that. They will use them as part of their propaganda to try to justify their opinions, but people should be judged on how they act.

There's a saying that 'those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it' (attributed to [George Santayana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Santayana)). There are also those who try to change history and this has always gone on. Historians play a vital role in trying to determine the facts. It's not always easy. 

'Fake news' has always been around, but it just gets more prominence now. I don't agree with those who say we cannot trust any of the media, but I'd trust some more than others. Every person has some sort of agenda, but for some that may be to get the facts out.

Peace.
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vote details (62)
@chieppa1 ·
$0.25
As a history buff, I disagree with taking down offensive statues. Especially with ropes and mobs. The retorts that "we can still learn about them in history books" or "put them in a museum" is BS. Americans are not going to read or go to museums. They are going to look as far as their teacher/professor tells them to look, or believe what the snarkiest political commentary on TV tells them to believe.

My term for these people is "non-readers", and they are taking over the dialogue.

I do have a suggestion if this is the future of my country:

Take down ALL STATUES and replace them with statues of fictional characters. 

This will satisfy the adult children in the streets who want to dive into the realm of intellectual discussion by screaming at people, while giving them a safe space to view buffs of their favorite superheros.
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@rebeccabe ·
@chieppal I upvoted your comment:  "Take down ALL STATUES and replace them with statues of fictional characters."  Right love it .. let's put up Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck because you are right about people not being about to think for themselves.  They are programmed from a young age to be this way, that is why home schooling is a great option.  I was publicly educated but they had to keep telling me to get back in line.
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@coffeehub ·
$0.13
I love all the statues around the city of London. 
Leave them be. 
As you say, taking them down doesn't change the history of them.
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vote details (1)
@investwarrior ·
$0.04
in Estonia 10 years ago was moment then Politicians removed Bronze soldier statue (Ussr died soldiers monument) and because of it was some kind of rebel and many local crushed shops,cars and so on. So in my opinion statues should be because its history art and they can destroy peace if will be removed.
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@steevc ·
Toppling a statue does not topple those who created it. It's not worth dying for a statue.
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@katharsisdrill ·
$0.32
I agree - we just have to live with our history. The battle for a better world is happening in the classroom, not in symbolic actions. Sadly the idea of removing statues actually mimics the totalitarian worldview of the  revolutionary movements of the twentieth century that stood for some of the greatest atrocities ever.

There's a small town in Germany where one of the churchbells is called *Hitler*. The bell has deemed a protected monument, so the towns people  have to listen to *Hitler* every Sunday, wedding and baptism. That's what happens when you invent nazism.... they have to live with it like the rest of us have to live with colonialism.
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@steevc ·
$0.12
The bell may be called Hitler, but it's just a bell. The name can remind people of past crimes. We should not just try to erase the bad memories. We can move on to better things.
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@katharsisdrill ·
$0.11
It also has a swastika on it :)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/13/17/4164C5A100000578-0-image-a-17_1497371847142.jpg
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@kus-knee ·
$0.71
This whole movement seems to be spreading like wild fire! Interesting and scary!
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@moemanmoesly ·
$0.04
I think the tearing down of statues is a symbolic gesture more than anything
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@lost.identity ·
It's symbolic of the rise of tyranny.
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@steevc ·
Exactly It's all about symbols and not people
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@paolobeneforti ·
$0.21
More work for sculptors! whee! ;) :D
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@chieppa1 ·
Stimulate that economy!
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@steevc ·
Who would you like to sculpt?
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@paolobeneforti ·
$0.37
when it comes to public statues or monuments, you have to fulfill specific demands.
but if I am free to choose, I'd make giant books with people in it :)
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vote details (2)
@rebeccabe ·
$0.25
You may have gotten this one right.  Lol... I don't think I have ever told you those words before.
 I don't watch tv news ... Someone told me people roped the Robert E Lee statue in the south and people want all confederate stuff gone.. Okay.. I understand, I get it but isn't there a better way to even do this...maybe put them on some museum grounds so people can spit on them if they hate them.  But to have two groups fighting and killing in some instances...is that any better? .. Hate is the new norm .. so hate me for saying this.. I can't even believe I am writing this comment.
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@steevc ·
I've not lived in the US south, so I don't know what the feelings are there, but no statue is worth dying for. It's likely to be a small minority who want to fight over this, but they get publicity. 

Most people don't hate. Let's not let it become the norm.

History happened. Let's learn and move on.
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@rebeccabe ·
$0.21
Well, I know a lot of us (me) use the word hate to easily.  I don't use it with meaning, saying something like I hate sitting here can we move over there?  

There is a lot of anger in the country I live in because people have forgotten how to express their feelings without violence.  Some it has to do with drug use.
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@scalextrix ·
$0.19
Im a farily liberal sort of guy, and Im against facism, racism and slavery.  However, I dont think Nelson is on his column, because he was a facist, racist, slaver.

Nelson is a hero because he fought and won great battles in furthering the dominance of his nation, at a time when all nations only sought dominance.  There was no United Nations or similar, everyone was out to cut everyone elses throats as efficiently as possible.  This thinking went on until after the world had been ravaged by WW1 and WW2, and it finally became clear that one nation or people should not stand in dominance over another.

We pick'n'mix history enough already, and so long as we review it through a modern ethical lens, it has nothing for us to fear.
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authorscalextrix
permlinkre-steevc-tearing-down-statues-does-not-change-history-20170822t123249186z
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vote details (1)