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Life after death - What does it matter? by tarazkp

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· @tarazkp · (edited)
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Life after death - What does it matter?
http://i.imgur.com/EVH3MKn.jpg

Today I read two well delivered views of what may happen after we die. I recommend giving them a read.

The first by @sykochica looks at different religious views on the matter:
https://steemit.com/showerthoughts/@sykochica/what-happens-when-we-die

The second by @creatr looks at a more specific biblical scripture view:
https://steemit.com/life/@creatr/what-happens-when-we-die-my-response-to-sykochika

http://i.imgur.com/ksyjXB7.jpg

My question to both is: ***What does it matter?***

I don't say this lightly and @sykochica did mention

>The only way to not die is to not live...and personally I'd rather have lived and this makes mortality an acceptable consequence.

Firstly, if there is a God like figure that created all in the universe, where is the benefit in playing a reward game with his creations where they must pass a series of tests in order to ascend to a place where life is all good. Literally.

So then free choice comes into it where if one chooses not to follow the rules, they get sent at death to another place where all life is bad. Literally.

Yet, both of these places are creations of the creator. 

This leaves free choice for the human to save or imprison their future soul in the game of life yet the rules are conflicting at best. Not just across different religions but within the same. Much of the points system is left to human interpretation with each perspective of the same subject believing they are the ones to have the rules understood correctly.

Since there are so many variations in view, the actual chance of being in the group that has it completely right is small, if not impossible since the laws of a god are likely unknowable to the minds of a human.

http://i.imgur.com/6Q9ZqyH.jpg

Heaven would be the place of perfection and if we carry our past selves through and we made one error along the way, we are imperfect and having carried it through the pearly gates, tainted heaven. The chance of not making errors is slim. Therefore, holding a flawed soul is impossible in heaven which means it can't be carried forward into heaven.

However, at the pearly gates or equivalent, we could be cleansed of our sins and enter clean. But in this case, if sins can be cleansed in such a way, all sins can be cleansed similarly. Where is the cut off for non-cleansable sins?

And when God punishes the non-believers does this mean believers that got it completely wrong too? After all, they did believe but translated the rules poorly.

http://i.imgur.com/kKKbOdb.jpg

When it comes to karma, burdens and reincarnation, what is the point in being punished for past actions if the past actions are unremembered and the punishment unknown. If one comes back as a human, the punishment must be to repeat the game. So we are all punished souls returned to repeat. This raises questions about our ever climbing population.

If one comes back as an animal or other, where is the shame in that? Is that punishment or reward? An animal acts purely until the rule of man trains it to do otherwise and nature itself is gods most pure creation (evolution is always pure) so coming back as a leaf or a tree or any other living organism would be a reward of absolute innocence.

But then, if we carry karma or something with us in our soul and can come back as any living thing. That means all living things have a soul and therefore potentially makes eating quite awkward. Is that a punishable sin also?

The atheist view of fade to black doesn't completely sit well either. Many atheists are scientific minds and would regard energy as a constant. We are made up of said energy and all that was, is and will be. Which means regardless of the presence of consciousness, what makes us, us, travels on in the universe.

http://i.imgur.com/IDbuTPB.jpg

**My position.**

Which leads me finally to where I may stand (I say may as I might rethink this in 30 seconds and shift again). No matter what one believes, nature/god must have a singular plan, even a randomised one. We are all too similar to be divided by ideology and perspective. The difference that divides us from the tree (in our general opinion) is we have consciousness and the only thing that I can know, is that I am conscious. Yet the I may not be me at all since that is a representation, how I see myself. That means the real *I* is consciousness itself.

This also means that there is only one action I can make in regards to others and that is to take responsibility for myself and not worry about anyone else as I cannot ever know if they themselves are actually conscious. Therefore, I cannot concern myself with their journey at all. I will get to causing harm in a moment.

The responsibility I take is to find out what I *is* which solves both views concurrently. In order to find out what I is, all that is not, must be removed. All culture, ideals, all thoughts and habits. Anything that has been instilled into me from parents or friends. Any pains I associate with, any pleasures. I must peel away all of the layers until all that remains is me, which is likely my consciousness itself. This leaves me pure. Definitely heaven material if needs be as I have systematically removed all potential sins.

When it comes to my actions, I have to find a way to move seamlessly therefore at one with the universe and all within. This means removing all conflicts and answering all questions both internal and external. To do so takes a peaceful, curious and understanding approach. An approach that will aim to not create more conflicts.

This path protects the universal rights of all and allows them to take their journey also but questions the earthly laws that create division, inequality and persecution. It will conflict with the perspectives of many but in time can unify all to approach a singular.

It solves both general views for if we are indeed made in the image of god, what we find at our core is god itself. And, if we are indeed just a randomised event in time, what we find is the answer to all existence. 

The Truth is in the now and completely within therefore what happens in a moment, day, year or in death, is not it. Nor is any event in the past.

So, what does it matter?

Taraz
[ a Steemit original ]

http://i.imgur.com/7eUC4Ys.jpg

It is interesting to think about though if it allows one to remove conflicts. Especially, if the conflict is worrying about the past and future while pretending to live in the present. I wrote this off the cuff so excuse the juttering prose, potential loose ends and unaddressed issues.

***Thank you @sykochica and @creatr for getting me thinking this morning.***
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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@creatr ·
Greetings, @tarazkp!

Thanks for your thoughtful article.
>*"My question to both (i.e. @sykochica and @creatr) is: **What does it matter?**"*

As it is late, I will try to answer briefly...

Being an "I" myself, that is, being "conscious" and having my own "identity," what happens after we die is of *personal* importance to me. I think that Jesus said it best:
>*"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?"*
[**- Matthew 16:26**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16:26&version=ESV)

For me personally, my *life* - in Jesus' terms, my *soul* - is of paramount importance. I *love* life! I *enjoy* observing the world, the universe around me. I *delight* in the activities of life, in reading, in surfing, in art, in writing. I *relish* my friends and my family. I have no desire to cease to exist. I want to explore the vast reaches of the universe. I want to see it all, to do it all. You can read a lot about my personal hopes and dreams in my blog here on Steemit.

Yet, as I observe the world around me, I see a 100% mortality rate. One hundred of every 100 people die.

And so, that is why it matters to me. That is why I want to know about life after death, to be sure of a solution to the "death" problem.

Furthermore, because I *love* my family and my friends, and because they are an important part of my own life, that is also why a solution to the problem of death is important to me. That is why I share the faith I have found with family and friends.

If you are reading this and if life matters to you, I invite you to consider the possibility that Jesus is in truth the God and creator of the universe. He is a historical person. His followers recorded the history of his life, his claims about himself, his execution, and his return to life. I'd say that my favorite eyewitness of Jesus' life is John, and [**he wrote this book**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=ESV) in which he recorded many significant statements and acts of Jesus.

If you were to read John's book for yourself, and hear what Jesus had to say, you might find a basis to believe and have hope for your own future.

Thanks again, @tarazkp, for asking the question! :D
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@tarazkp ·
I understand your position and it is a worthy one for you.

How I see it is that the organisation of matter always ends, the matter does not. The death problem in my view is not a problem for it is just the disintegration of the organisation. I love my family too and this is why I talk about life rather than an unknown future death. For me, it is what it will be and always has been.

The 100% mortality rate is not a problem for the god-fearing anyway for death is welcome when it arrives as life was lived for that purpose, to be judged worthy. Looking to live forever may be an avoidance of the judgement which would mean that one may not have faith in their own actions to be judged or faith in the God they have tied themselves to.

When it comes to organised religion, there is much too much hand of man in the pages and traditions. Too much human law that destroys and corrupts the worthy messages within. I have read the bible completely twice in my life, 20 years apart. Both times I met the same conclusion. And it was a conclusion. For me that means that unless I now have the understanding of the universe in its entirety, there is no conclusion met.

As interesting as the words themselves and many of the lessons in are, it is too easy to corrupt for earthly desires by those that claim they know the way. And too many follow their lead without agency. It is often an escape of responsibility, not a taking of it. Faith in an authority, someone to blame.

This is in no way a criticism of anyone that takes that path as I think that in the end, we all end up at the same point anyway. And when it comes to hope for my own future, I have no concerns nor need for hope. To me it is another term for desire, expectation, and once a position and want for the future is built, I may do all I can to achieve it. That leads to violence and condemnation of anything that stands in my way. If there is a heaven, I can't imagine it being reached through a pathway of desire fulfilled.

The conversations surrounding these topics are very important regardless of positions currently held. Too often people avoid topics that threaten their position. As I see it when it comes to faith, if my questioning is seen as a threat, the faith was not solid. If the faith can open itself to fire and survive intact; if there is a god that rewards belief, that person is worthy of a fair trial. 

Thank you for taking the time to respond.
πŸ‘  
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@por500bolos ·
$0.03
The older I get, more I'm convinced that God, Heaven, Hell, Sins, Karma, Reincarnation and sometimes even Soul, simply are way overrated concepts, which for me, are clearly no more than pure ingrained futile alien efforts applied on us from ages ago just **To Harness & Milk The Herd** In total meekness.

So yes, death doesn't matter. At least no more than simply gain a well deserved rest of this self-conceived and self-perceived **reality.**
πŸ‘  
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@tarazkp ·
I agree as you can probably read pretty clearly in most if what I write. I have nothing against anyone following their own path of discovery until that path leads to imposition and violence upon others.
πŸ‘  ,
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@creatr ·
Yes, I couldn't agree more - imposition and violence upon others is fundamentally evil! Thank you for stating this so clearly. :D
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@por500bolos ·
Exactly, that persecutory mania of some believers who by any means are always trying to recruit, gather and herd cattle only & exclusively for their own corral. Β‘That's what inflate the balls the most! LOL
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@tonyr ·
$0.03
Unfortunately I haven't been able to find the time yet to read the reply to @sykochika by @creatr  but I hope to get the chance later today sometime.

 I was very pleased to see that you had written on the subject yourself and I look forward very much to seeing what you have to say but will do so after I have read the post by @creatr which I am also really keen to read.

I also have some views on the topic and was planning on writing something soon but perhaps it has been covered by creatr or yourself so I look forwad to seeing if that is the case. :)

Just wanted to let you know that reading this post is definitely on my 'to do' list.:)

Hope your day is going well!
πŸ‘  
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@tarazkp ·
It is a more general post than both of the others and more orientated to my own views and opinions. Hope you enjoy the read at least :)
πŸ‘  
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@tonyr ·
$0.03
> The responsibility I take is to find out what I is which solves both views concurrently. In order to find out what I is, all that is not, must be removed. All culture, ideals, all thoughts and habits. Anything that has been instilled into me from parents or friends. Any pains I associate with, any pleasures. I must peel away all of the layers until all that remains is me, which is likely my consciousness itself. This leaves me pure. Definitely heaven material if needs be as I have systematically removed all potential sins.

This is what I was planning on posting about! One of the most well written and insightful observations I have read and such a shame that it is getting such little exposure. I hope this will change soon for you!

What is 'i'? What are we at our source before the world bombards us with opinions and belief systems? How do we find our way back to that source when we have strayed so far from it or have been led so far from it by the societies and cultures we are brought up in, our families etc?

What I have been thinking about and what I had intended to write about is, 'What were we intended to do while we are here and is that what we are doing now?

I commented on @skyochica's post that searching for knowledge of why we are here might actually be counter-productive to our true reason for being here. Perhaps the intellectual study of life and its complexities is not the way we should be approaching life but instead we should be approaching it with a view to learning through observation and interaction with nature, physically. Perhaps we have been looking for the answers in the wrong way and in the wrong places. If humanities logic was flawed from the start it stands to reason that we have strayed a good way from our original purpose here.

The road we find ourselves on today could well have been any different number of roads depending on our past decisions both individually and as a whole. Where we are now is simply where we are now and not necessarily where we are supposed to be and the same can be said about our understanding of life in general.  

Does knowledge or perceived knowledge bring us happiness or lead us to more questions still?  Ignorance can be bliss but with knowledge comes responsibility and conscience. Knowledge of good and evil!  Power!

The search for knowledge is one that I am clearly attracted to but sometimes I wonder if I am  looking in the wrong direction and in the wrong way. 

It was indeed an enjoyable read.

Thank you again.
πŸ‘  
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