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Stake in the Clouds by tarazkp

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @tarazkp ·
$74.32
Stake in the Clouds
<div class="text-justify">

I don't know about you, but entitlement annoys me. So many people these days seem to think that based on who they are or what they do for a job, entitles them to special treatment, regardless of how they act or treat others. 

For example on Hive, which often employs a community-based approach to support, there are some who believe they are entitled to support without consideration of whether they support others. For example, an artist feels that their art should be supported, but font feel that they should have to support others within their own artistic community.

Remenbering that this is a stake-based system where financial support generally comes through voting, how is an artist going to support others if everything they earn, gets cashed out continuously? 

![IMG_20220704_133913.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/tarazkp/23ywnxoWxomondsTcV6VZWhiEuCbqNN2A71hzCFscVcDRjgGt21S3tvD5kvdmQPrBVoYN.jpg)

This conversation topic generally gets met with a spectrum of resistance from agree to disagree, but I think which is generally based on what one believes is the value of distributed networks. For me, the value is largely from ownership and on Hive, that ownership includes the network itself, through owning stake. 

This ownership is not only for personal gain, as it also is part of the distributed security of the platform. On top of this, this owned stake spread also means that more communities can be supported over time by the niche communities, without being reliant on a narrow stake base of support, which is obviously risky, like having only one large customer for a business.

However, it is much harder to build broad support, especially staked support, since quite often people within niche communities don't want to keep their own stake, often not even partially. This means that they are happy to earn, but are unable to add to the earnings of others, which means being unable to help people like themselves. 

I think at least part of this issue is because most people are still in the old economic mentality, where they are encouraged not to own and be reliant on those "with" ownership. This ultimately leads to disparity in financial outcomes and ability to earn, causing resentment of those with, especially when they choose to shift their support to the next topic of interest. 

Hive however encourages a hybrid approach, which means that while there is reward for content contributors, there is also reward for content consumers. But, the reward for content consumers comes with the cost and risks of staking, as well as the opportunity cost of what else could be done with that value. 

For example, the opportunity cost of me being able to provide vote value of a couple dollars, is currently around about 90,000 dollars - the value of my stake. Yet, a lot of people expect to benefit from my vote (and others of course) but feel entitled to not start wearing any of that opportunity cost themselves. 

That is fine because once the value goes into a wallet, the wallet owner chooses how it is used. But, since this is a social network with stake as the reward mechanism, those with stake often start questioning those who only extract on whether the value of what they offer is worth more than what they take away - And often, it is seen as not being that valuable. 

This often causes community conflict, because it raises the question of what is valuable, but again - stake based system - *everyone knows this.* This means that while people can voice their opinion about what holds value or not, unless it is backed by stake, the *financial value in terms of HIVE* is dictated by stake. This means it might be valuable on Facebook, Instagram or by Sotherby's - but that isn't what makes it valuable on Hive. 

Knowing that stake is the mechanism, if arguing about the HIVE value of content, stake is the voice. If arguing with someone about the value of content bit unwilling to accept any of the risk or opportunity cost of holding stake, the social voice becomes far less powerful and probably lose, unless it can convince others with stake to support, making the power of that voice reliant on others again - support that can be removed. 

It doesn't matter if this is for the benefit or detriment of Hive as a whole, it is the way the system works. And, when it comes to those who want to sell, it is because of this system that people are willing to buy and stake, because it gives them a voice, as well as the benefits of getting rewarded for their consumption, and the satisfaction of rewarding others. Without this demand on the token, what content creators earn, is *valueless* and pointless. 

However, a lot I'd people don't want to dive into how the economocs work here at even a basic level like presented here, even though it affects them directly. Instead, they want to hold onto their misinformed entitlement believing that what they offer is so valuable, they deserve to be rewarded. And when those rewards don't come or those
with stake disagree with their view of what is valuable, they react badly, like petulant children.

It is a pattern that has played out hundreds of times over the years and each time, the same arguments come up. Yet, almost invariably, the unstaked choose not to dive into the economics of the system they have opted-in to, and have all kinds of reasons why they should be treated as an exception, that all of the same code at the social and technological level that everyone else lives by on Hive, shouldn't apply to them.

This sae pattern of behavior is the default in society and leads to renter mindset and disenfranchisement, which is part of the reason the world is such a mess. People expect to be looked after, regardless of whether they take ownership of looking after themselves and others. They then appeal to authority to step in and say that their lives are valuable to society, without actually considering what value their life brings to society. It is essentially, antisocial behavior, but expecting that society to still provide. This makes people reliant on others who will see a decreasing reason to offer support.

As said, there is always a spectrum of agreement to disagreement on this topic, but it is good to consider who is willing to put skin in the game, accept risk and opportunity cost and, actively participate in the discussion.

I have been involved for a while and it has been a long time since I have heard much new in this regard from the unstaked. However, the staked have made continual improvements over the last 5 years, fundamentally improving the experience of the average user. 

If you aren't willing to support people like you - why would anyone else? 

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]


</div>

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@tarazkp/stake-in-the-clouds)
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 555 others
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vote details (619)
@anomadsoul ·
$0.22
RE: Stake in the Clouds
We've been living in a society with a mindset of relying on the government and the big corporations to give handouts and to support the little fella, without the little fella having the need to be an active part of the system that is helping them. This mindset floods on to hive, where the mentality shouldn't be like this, and yet it takes several years of being part of hive to reach this mentality you mention. I don't condone it, but I understand why these people/communities you mention seek to obtain value without the having an urge to give it back, it's not their fault, but posts like this one could go a long way for a mentality change at an individual but also a general level.

Some people may call it circle jerk, but I understand why the votes usually flock towards the same people. The reason is simple, people with stake choose to vote people who will stake their rewards instead of draining token value by selling them. This is a behavior that one only understands when they have skin in the game, and then it becomes their own mindset. I began on Hive doing some charity work with my posts rewards, now I run away from charity initiatives not because I think they are bad, but because they exist specifically to drain value from the blockchain into situations that help the ecosystem in a little to no amount.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@anomadsoul/re-tarazkp-3pbks3)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp · (edited)
> This mindset floods on to hive, where the mentality shouldn't be like this, and yet it takes several years of being part of hive to reach this mentality you mention.


Yes it does. Most people joining are just ordinary people trying to live a life - but not changing the mindset means we can never have a better future. It takes time and open participation. 

>This is a behavior that one only understands when they have skin in the game, and then it becomes their own mindset.

A bit of skin changes everything and it doesn't have to even be that much. I find those who actually buy a bit off an exchange to stake, tend to understand this better than people who earn and stake. 

Charity is good, but this isn't a charity alone. Some people expect the value to be there regardless of how they behave. 

Hope you are well mate!
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@arlisbella ·
Your post is great!
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@azircon ·
$0.29
I have often been on the receiving end of this. People calling me names doesn't bother me anymore, but still it is often hard for me to see entitlement. I have never written a single rant post on hive, and I am not planning to write one, but honestly, anywhere else in the real world, these people will be 'steamrolled'
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
Yes, they would get their fifteen minutes of fame and then, the opposing forces will start swinging and they will be obliterated...
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@bashadow ·
> If you aren't willing to support people like you - why would anyone else?

Because of the 
>petulant children

Syndrome. 

I read a lot of ***but I need it to live on!*** argument. I never understood that one, not one bit. Because prior to them joining Hive or Steem they had no income from either. If they had only taken out the non-auto staked earnings then they would continue to improve their position.
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@ctrpch ·
$0.18
Make sense mate, hive power up day is a good indication of commitment, support the ones that power up, (like me :) )
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
:)

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@dandays ·
I just held up the barbell chair while reading this and they already look at me weird here and *now this.*  I hope you're happy!
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@dswigle ·
$0.31
I think there is more opportunity to grow now than there was 5 years ago. 

I have a lot of newbies in my challenge whom I reward nicely to give a little incentive...I hate to say it, but, I check out their wallets now and again. If they are cashing it all out right away, with no apparent cause, I am pretty done with them. 

I want to help those looking towards the future of the platform, not their pockets.

👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@oople ·
More to hive to learn...  apparently there is a mentor like support system for new accounts.  Wish I knew while lurking, baby steps, but I am trying. Thanks being one nevertheless
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@owasco ·
$0.20
When I think of onboarding new accounts (haven't managed to bring one single person here!), I think of sending them to you, Denise. You are very generous to new accounts, as you were to me. And all that joy!!! Beauty! Positive vibes! 
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@dswigle ·
You think that way because you are appreciative and thoughtful. You are a giver, not a taker. 

You pass it on, all the time. Just the way it is supposed to be. ❤️

And, thank you! (I know! Grammatically incorrect, but, you will be polite and not correct me @owasco)
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@tarazkp ·
$0.10
> I think there is more opportunity to grow now than there was 5 years ago.

Especially in more topic areas and across various interfaces, Splinterlands and Leo. 

I understand people taking some, and I think it is useful for some people to get "connected" with crypto - but when the majority is going out, I see no point in supporting them.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@dswigle ·
> Especially in more topic areas and across various interfaces, Splinterlands and Leo.

Yes! Exactly!
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@hivebuzz ·
Congratulations @tarazkp! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s):

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</table>

<sub>_You can view your badges on [your board](https://hivebuzz.me/@tarazkp) and compare yourself to others in the [Ranking](https://hivebuzz.me/ranking)_</sub>
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👍  
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vote details (1)
@johnhtims · (edited)
You make some good points.  I'm going to have to start keep track of people I upvote who don't power up at least a little bit of their earnings.  It can't always be about extraction.
properties (22)
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@nonameslefttouse ·
$0.18
Was there another meltdown I don't know about?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
It is a borderline case of an artist that reposts a lot of older stuff, years on end. I feel it will probably escalate though.
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@nonameslefttouse · (edited)
By the looks of it I'd just get shit on if I tried to help.  Some of that stuff is AI generated art, not painted by a human.  And I could churn out a new post every ten minutes if I took cropped shots of previous work showing off hidden or finer details.  But if I did that I'm sure all I'd do is alienate the people that actually do enjoy my work.  He did say the posts aren't meant for viewership though, just there to be monetized, so I guess that part wouldn't bother him.  As an artist, some of the shit he said triggers me, so I think I'll steer clear.  There's also some things he's right about but I don't feel like dealing with drama.
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@oasiskp2 ·
I appreciate your post. We cant eat our cake and have it, staking helps to increase so to speak the value of our darling HP.
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@onealfa.leo ·
RE: Stake in the Clouds
![BOOM1.jpg](https://images.hive.blog/DQmNgEJdWJwnTiWBbqq4BaoUPiC7b1ZSLQfXDeW7ssJphHt/BOOM1.jpg)

![toruk_washere_new3leo.jpg](https://images.hive.blog/DQmXa1mqNP2idcwduZgUuQgm3YfmdojcHRfJDmYYnGX3Syw/toruk_washere_new3leo.jpg)

Read [how this all have started](https://leofinance.io/@onealfa/toruk-was-here) with Toruk

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@onealfa.leo/re-tarazkp-2jvnhz)
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@owasco ·
$0.19
I haven't heard any of these grumblings. It's not rocket science to understand that if you can't support others, we are not going to support you. I now go to the wallets of an account to see if I want to support it regularly. 

I have been surprised at how many accounts delegate most of their hive to upvoting accounts. No one actually reads their work, no one. If you ask me, that means they have contributed very little value to Hive, yet their repetitive posts earn quite a lot. It can't be called spam, because they are indeed original, well written, and well constructed posts. 

#### If a post goes unread, was it ever written? 

 

👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
Yep - the odd support is fine - but when looking longer term on supporting an account, the other factors come into it eventually. I have supported many people who have then taken it for granted, cashed out and then complained when the support has ended. 
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@tarazkp ·
>If a post goes unread, was it ever written?

And - that is the issue with a lot of the content - people don't care if it is consumed, just if it is upvoted...
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@owasco ·
$0.19
Even when it's their own. This baffles me. I wouldn't be able to produce anything just for me, then expect the blockchain to house it for me forever. They must live in a deep loneliness. 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@piensocrates ·
I find everything you say in this post very interesting. I think what you say is very true, if we expect the support of others in Hive, we should give support to others in Hive, and thus support the entire ecosystem of the platform.

I also think that in many cases, people don't understand the real value of Hive, as a decentralized social network that is innovative and unique. I think this situation will probably change over time. At least, that's what I believe in my optimistic view of things.

Personally, there is no doubt that staking is an effective way to increase our power on the platform and support others. Certainly I am thinking of increasing my HP as soon as it is possible. For now, I vote, comment and reblog all the posts I'm reading that seem to me to be of good quality.

Your post was excellent. Greetings.
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@relf87 ·
$0.22
Thanks for verbalising some of my thoughts and I can resonate with them!

I encountered some people who are new, they wrote posts and waited for the votes to come in, and then they asked me why no one was voting their posts. I posed the question back to them, asking them how many posts within the same community they have read and/or voted, and their answer is none.

One valuable pointer that I learnt in my short stint in Hive is that it's important to connect with people. If readers spent the effort to comment on my post, I should minimally respond. I think that's the basic etiquette.

Cheers!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
Connection and relationship building is everything in a social network, isn't it? The reason it isn't as important on the centralized services is, that the authority decides who gets what.
👍  
properties (23)
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vote details (1)
@slobberchops ·
$0.33
However valuable HP appears to be, there are those who will extract it **ALL**. It could be perceived as being '*Raw Diamond*' and yet still it gets sold. Sell your HBD (the other 50% if you must) but leave some HP in there FFS people.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@tarazkp ·
$0.22
It shows short-sightedness and a lack of belief in the future. It is a "take it while its free" attitude, then complaining when it stops. 
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@typebox ·
Entitlement sucks for real no doubt about that . Always seeking to be on the receiving end and not trying to return the same energy is actually a low blow . Being happy to earn and at the same time indifferent about other people earning on the platform is just selfish .
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@videoaddiction ·
$0.23
>However, it is much harder to build broad support...

I think HIVE needs time for it as long as members of which keep on staking HIVE.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
Yes. Those who keep staking and participating generally do well. Those who keep only extracting, eventually run out of support. 
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