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Which community isn't exclusive? by tarazkp

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· @tarazkp ·
$36.14
Which community isn't exclusive?
The last 24 hours has seen the term *'Exclusive community'* get raised and many have found the idea of exclusivity distasteful. Even though I don't like the term myself, I am now trying to come up with a community of any kind that isn't exclusive to some extent. Can you think of one?

https://i.imgur.com/Po3BDEt.jpg

Other than being a member of the human species itself, the entire population of the globe separates itself across a whole range of (largely irrelevant) sub-groups, whether this be by race, sex, colour, nation, political affiliation or music preference. Based on these myriad forms and combinations of selection, people create communities that more or less are aligned in a particular way. A community of trance music ravers aren't likely to be overly open to the DJ taking requests from people who like country music. 

## Borderless homes

Talking about country, how welcoming is your own country and your own beliefs about having anyone and everyone included? Do you think people in your country should try to speak the common language? Should they pay the local taxes? Abide by social conventions? What about those who commit crimes, are they included in all parts of society in your country or, are they sectioned off and incarcerated? Where is the *acceptance* of all kinds, where is the *freedom* to be who one is? If they want to kill, rape and avoid taxes, isn't it their right and shouldn't you and your community welcome them in lovingly?

Now, *obviously* this is not the case as *all* communities are based around implicit and explicit sets of rules and there are consequences to not abiding by them. Some consequences are formalised like laws and some are not like social ostracizing. If you want to get technical about it, since we are all absolutely unique in *some* way due to our very physical structures, we can continually segment ourselves until we are all individual islands, minorities of one member and, that is what we are heading toward in this polarized society we continually create. There is *ALWAYS* an us versus them position if we want to find one. 

## Exclude them all

People have been talking about the affects of the hardfork and how it excludes people (even though it was unintended and is being repaired) from using Steem. Let's say that it is going to do that and that was the plan all along. Are you happy or would you like to have everyone included? Included?

Ok, in the world there is 7.2 billion people yet, only 3.2 billion have access to the internet. Uh oh. Hardfork 21 is going to have to be one helluva update to be able to give the opportunity to 4 billion more people to not only take part here but enter into the digital information age. 

Does that sound like a ridiculous and extreme example? Perhaps it is but if one wants to be inclusive at all levels it is a step we all have to make and it has to be achieved *before* any other update can take place othrwise it is going to be an unfair advantage to those who already have internet access. Maybe there should be a weekly magazine sent of all posts and transaction records sent to all  without access to the internet to close the informational gap.

Yeah, I am getting ridiculous on purpose. 

## Excluding relevance

My point is that by definition, communities are exclusive and within each community there are smaller and increasingly exclusive communities. There are barriers all over the place and I don't think most women would like to have communal change rooms at their local gym and, neither would most men. People want their space, they want to meet and engage with people who they enjoy in the ways they enjoy and this is why Steem has to fragment in order to be *inclusive.*

People seem to keep talking about about variation in content yet when it comes to exclusion, only look at it from an economical standpoint. I am under no illusion, many people who are on this platform right now have very little opportunity to read, understand and then provide relevant response to my content. Me writing in English is exclusionary itself but, I am limited by my skills, my thoughts, who I am . I exclude consistently because there is no way not to. 

Yesterday, I proposed a [*potential way*](https://steemit.com/steem/@tarazkp/pay-to-play-not-necessarily) that takes out most of the exclusionary aspects of the economics in joining Steem yet, it will never be enough for people because, it will never allow people to have everything they want in the precise way they want it. This means that because they are unable to be satisfied by what is *provided,* they consider themselves victims of an exclusionary system. Nothing is stopping anyone here from building their own community on EOS, Minds, Facebook or Medium. 

Nothing and nobody is forcing anyone to be a part of Steem.

## Opt-in or opt-out

Unlike the community we are born into, the race, the social class, the parental culture, the economic system, the tax laws of a nation, forced roll call to arms or a myriad other aspects, Steem is an *opt-in* community and, an *opt-out* community. It doesn't get more inclusive and free than that and even though there may be different capabilities for individuals depending on their resources, there *will always be* different experiences as that is the definition of experience. 

People will talk about their investments in and how now they are here they are forced to take part but this isn't true either, it is a choice. Everything on Steem is a choice, it is a community and ecosystem that empowers choices that are not possible to make in the real world. Exclusionary? Yes, because those *4 billion people without internet access* have no choice to be here. And when it comes to investing in, remember that pesky little R word that affects all movement universally? *Risk.*

Things can change and Steem, crypto, financial investing of any kind all carry volatility and in a young investment space, volatility is very high. But of course, the money doesn't matter at all because everyone here is about having an inclusive community that welcomes all always, just like their nation states do for illegal immigrants who *make the choice* to *risk* a border crossing for the hope of a better experience in life. 

The idea of inclusion suddenly gets pretty damn hypocritical doesn't it?

## Pushing trolleys

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Trolley_problem.png
<sub>[source](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Trolley_problem.png)</sub>

>## The trolley problem
>>You see a runaway trolley moving toward five tied-up (or otherwise incapacitated) people lying on the tracks. You are standing next to a lever that controls a switch. If you pull the lever, the trolley will be redirected onto a side track and the five people on the main track will be saved. However, there is a single person lying on the side track. You have two options:
Do nothing and allow the trolley to kill the five people on the main track.
Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person.
Which is the most ethical option?

So, although people think and feel that Steeminc have flicked the switch on some members of the community, this is not the case at all if you also hold the position that people shouldn't have unlimited rights to do as they please in your own home. You want to save everybody? Are you sure? Are you welcoming them all in to wherever you are going to be at all times or would you like to have some walls, doors and privacy? 

There are moral and ethical questions at play here but if one only limits the exclusionary argument to economic availability alone, it is excluding massive swathes of information relevant for the discussion. As I see it, this argument is less argument and more discussion and conversation that is required continually from the day we are born to the day we as a species cease to exist. 

What I mean by this is that the actions we make now are going to effect every thing down the stream from us just as we have been affected by those upstream. I would much rather get it more right than our predecessors did and I feel that we as a small community of largely forward thinkers have an opportunity to affect a much larger conversation and negotiation in the future. Selling our potential short to satisfy the immediate needs of a few is likely to cost the easing of suffering of many more in the longer termed future. 

Are you willing to flick that switch?

## Hostile and volatile

At least while there is a lot of volatility and uncertainty here, Steem is unlikely to be able to satisfy all people adequately unless they are willing and capable of dealing with volatility and uncertainty. If people aren't and are only interested in developing a stable community I recommend finding a centralized, already established platform that has low possibility to change anything fundamentally in this world because if it does, it is going to face massive changes itself as well as face continual threats from adversaries of many kinds. 

Stability and security in this world are illusory in my opinion but many offer them as a trade off for something. They provide false protection for what they can never guarantee to protect from. Steem in my opinion is less protected in many respects than the real world due to the freedom of choice in interaction here and many people are not accustomed to such things when they feel it or see it happen. 

There are many questions on Steem that are being constantly negotiated across many fields and sets of people with varying backgrounds, skills, capabilities and unique human experience. If people want to be part of the discussion, this is one of the most welcoming places in the world for such things but due to the nature of the environment and topics, there is going to be a great deal of discomfort involved. However, if one is looking for immediate solutions to personal agenda needs, Steem is unlikely to satisfy that, at least at the moment.

Again, this is an opt-in or opt-out community and everyone is free to make their own choice. There are still questions to  answer though and, many more to ask. I am opting-in to explore possibilities further. 

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

*I am working on less than 3 hours sleep in the last 36 hours so, bare with the disjointed arguments. I am learning a lot here about things I have never thought much about and I still have a long way to go. I hope what I consider important conversations don't get destroyed by people who are trying to turn it into what we already know doesn't work.*
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vote details (66)
@abh12345 · (edited)
$0.07
Can I add another track to the trolleys journey, stick every Steemian on board and set it on fire?  On this line the track does a loop-the-loop, but douses the trolley in water at the same time.

I should really put this joint down, or stop blaming joints I don't own for making no sense.

Nice post! ;)

Oh, and the answer (excluding the 4 billion not online and those not on Steem), is @steemcommunity + @c-squared :p
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
$0.04
lol.

>Oh, and the answer (excluding the 4 billion not online and those not on Steem), is @steemcommunity + @c-squared :p

There are limits and if enforceable would be enforced :D

Want me to test? let me buy a fresh alt credit :P
👍  
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@abh12345 ·
Yes, feel free :D

I did some testing of my own this morning: https://steemit.com/misterengagement/@misterengagement/misterengagement-tests-the-rc-capabilities-of-3-sp
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@cryptoandcoffee ·
$0.05
Hi taraz. Three hours sleep in a day and a half. you must have posts lined up until next week. I think it is a fine balance and would like to see spamming gone or controlled to bearable levels. If that means only having x amount of rc credits to start with then we have to live with that aspect.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
Lol, no. I write on the fly most of the time and post as I go. pretty much everything you read from me has just been written a moment before. I seem to work better this way although sleep would be great. 

The system is still adjusting.
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@dianadee ·
$0.05
At the end our own moral compass will dictate.We also will have to face our own consciences  at some point or other.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
>We also will have to face our own consciences at some point or other.

Perhaps it should be from the moment we awake to when we sleep each day? :)
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@dianadee ·
While we are conscious of what we do is the best time..we are then accountable for our negative or positive output 😐
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@empress-eremmy ·
$0.07
People will always complain no matter what. Best to let them be. Life itself is exclusive in a way. Funny thing is that we all somehow chase exclusivity even though we don't admit it
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
Human nature is a type of competition so it is natural to some extent yet, can obviously be very destructively used.
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@fknmayhem · (edited)
$0.11
I have pretty much mentally turned off the “exclusive community” argument **for now** because the system still has to find the equilibrium. Until then, we will not know what the real cost of anything is. Once more transactions achieved, while the chain isn’t bottlenecked, the cost of everything should massively drop and many will be able to perform multiple operations every day.

Yet, freemium is a reality. And unless, they are willing to pay **another** transactional fee - for example have your data sold ads against -, freemium will be limited and that is fine.

There is no such thing online as a “benevolent” service which doesn’t somehow charge. Whether the fee is obvious or backhanded is irrelevant here.

Additionally, one thing which came to mind each time I read about “new signups” was if anybody complaining about that had ever tried doing something with a new account on Reddit.

Something along the lines of what it seemed was expected... 40-50 comments/day and/or posts.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
$0.03
>Yet, freemium is a reality. And unless, they are willing to pay another transactional fee - for example have your data sold ads against -, freemium will be limited and that is fine.

I see that this is the thing too and the dapps/interfaces etc will be able to offer and compete with various approaches to how they onboard. 

>There is no such thing online as a “benevolent” service which doesn’t somehow charge. Whether the fee is obvious or backhanded is irrelevant here.

Most think Facebook is free while they order that latest product online. 

>Additionally, one thing which came to mind each time I read about “new signups” was if anybody complaining about that had ever tried doing something with a new account on Reddit.

I don't reddit so I have no idea about this. All of my redditing are through links shared by @acidyo :D

>Something along the lines of what it seemed was expected... 40-50 comments/day and/or posts.

this should positively affect comment number averages on posts. People don't spend much time in the new tag seeing the streams of *10 posts an hour accounts* pour though.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@fknmayhem ·
$0.05
> Most think Facebook is free while they order that latest product online.

Most don’t realize that on Facebook and Google, and since some years also on Reddit and Tumblr, they are **the product**. Not users, the product.
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vote details (1)
@funbobby51 ·
$0.09
>The last 24 hours has seen the term 'Exclusive community' get raised and many have found the idea of exclusivity distasteful. Even though I don't like the term myself, I am now trying to come up with a community of any kind that isn't exclusive to some extent. Can you think of one?

No! You are exactly right, all communities are defined by those they exclude! That's why I am never into communities myself.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
$0.03
I have always been a social butterfly of sorts so community or not, I can find a place or two or three :)
👍  ,
properties (23)
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vote details (2)
@gabriel90sson ·
$0.05
Exclusivity isn't such a bad thing. From my perspective, Steemit being exclusive is not necessarily to keep people out , but to ensure the right kind of people come in
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
There is no assurance as to what is right but a community grows to become reflective of the people it contains and in turn shapes the people continuously too.
properties (22)
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@gadrian ·
$0.09
Yesterday I thought we're on the way to reach equilibrium along with the RC system.

But all it took was one maybe too *exclusive* word (and certainly too early) and all hell broke loose.

At this point I am wondering, during these moments, does anyone really see how things look from the other side?

All your arguments make sense... to me, I've made many of them myself. 

Hopefully your post and the extreme examples make more sense, if anyone with a strong opposing view has the will to process them.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
I think there were various 'distributed' knee-jerk reactions and then there was a winding up of responses. But at the same time, I think that there are lots of lessons to be learned by it all and not everyone and every reaction was negative. There were lots of examples of people acting well too which is a good sign for the future.
properties (22)
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@gadrian ·
Yes, it is true, I've seen some moderate reactions too. And I agree we have some lessons to learn from here.
properties (22)
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@minismallholding · (edited)
If we do our part to save the world then the trolley answer is obviously to not flip the switch and take out more of those pesky hoomans. :P
properties (22)
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@newageinv ·
$0.09
Exclusivities goes as far as the communities allow then to and its funny that many are complaining about this now as they have been wanting to do this here for some time now as the Hivemind update will also make some parts here more exclusive to my knowledge.  I think the whole RC is finally stabilized and will no longer impact the accounts that are being productive and adding value to the ecosystem.  I think it is time to focus on the opportoand potential of these changes and adapt.  I think data will be analyzed to adjust further if necessary.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
> I think the whole RC is finally stabilized and will no longer impact the accounts that are being productive and adding value to the ecosystem.

Because of the updates last night it might take a bit more time to find the balance point so the numbers will change again but *should* improve. Adjustments will be continuously needed here.
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@newageinv ·
Agree but I think the fact that adjustments are being made shows that the impacts seen earlier this week were not the intention and should get users more calm of the potential impact to new and smaller accounts as we move forward.  It is the intention for everyone to participate here in a responsible and value adding way.
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@ocdb ·
re-tarazkp-which-community-isn-t-exclusive-20181001t201523591z
You got a 51.61% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @tarazkp!
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@soo.chong163 ·
$0.12
Ethics and morals have little to do with each other.  The so-called "trolley problem" is problem of choosing between two evils.  Morals address "right and wrong, "good and evil."  Ethics merely deals with logical rationalization of one decision over another, using some semblence of morality.  Those in positions of responsibility decide between one unsavory choice verses another.  It is easy for the hoi polloi to opine upon issues, upon which they will never be cursed with the opportunity to decide because they do not produce or maintain those platforms, tools, and institutions that allow for a sociocultural matrix to function.

All communities are exclusive because there exists the basic minimum standard of conduct expected by the members of the faction/group.  When these standards are unenforced, or even questioned, the community dissolves into aether.  The wise of the past admonished: _when in Rome, do as the Romans do_.  Now, it seems the fools whine to have the Romans behave differently in Rome because _feelings_, _freedom_, (insert some other such nonsense).
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
$0.03
>All communities are exclusive because there exists the basic minimum standard of conduct expected by the members of the faction/group.

This is the thing that everyone wants.

>When these standards are unenforced, or even questioned, the community dissolves into aether. 

This is what everyone wants but few want to enforce themselves so, they proxy an authority. 

Perhaps morals is the spectrum to the extremes while ethics is the hierarchy between?
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@soo.chong163 ·
I guess this relates to our discussion regarding your post on people behaving against their self-interest.  Much of modern economy centers on man's maladaptive behaviors and his near-obsessive avoidance of responsibilty/obligation.  I recall some movie, in which the main character is hired as a consultant to terminate employees because modern managers are too wimpy to fire their employees.  

I view morals as the ideal in a perfect world, and ethics as the practical application of said ideal in an imperfect world.  Ethics may have a semblence of morality, but ethics and morals answer fundamentally different questions.
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@steem-ua ·
#### Hi @tarazkp!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your **UA** account score is currently 6.136 which ranks you at **#254** across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has improved 2 places in the last three days (old rank 256).

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 278 contributions, your post is ranked at **#14**.
##### Evaluation of your UA score:

* You've built up a nice network.
* The readers appreciate your great work!
* Good user engagement!


**Feel free to join our [@steem-ua Discord server](https://discord.gg/KpBNYGz)**
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@vimukthi ·
$0.09
Easily one of the best posts I've read in some time and the best one on the matter at hand. Despite I'm still getting my VP recovered I still voted 100% because you speak everything I want to say about this issue. Your lack of sleep has not made anything disjointed. It's a rock solid post.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
Thank you, it is appreciated. Things are slowly returning back to normal. Well, *Steem normal* :)
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