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Let's talk about @andyluy (60) spamming new Users with selfupvoted comments by thatgermandude

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @thatgermandude · (edited)
$22.16
Let's talk about @andyluy (60) spamming new Users with selfupvoted comments
![Spam.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmT7vxnerXrQuzbd6zeZ5kYMqhuyWuy1ZCRU43wpGyzrrk/Spam.png)

So I met a new Steemian yesterday by the name of @ladyreijya . She is a tarot card reader offering [her services for Steem](https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@ladyreijya/free-tarot-card-readings-for-every-follower)! Even though I don't necessarily believe in fortune telling, I also do not not believe in fortune telling. There might be secrets in old traditions that are yet to be rediscovered.

<h1>The Case</h1>

Upon visiting Lady Reijyas's introduction post I encountered @andyluy (Rep 60)(6000SP including distributed power) and a very unpleasant encounter it was: An automated comment talking about his experience  on Steemit, linking several of his articles. About a page of text in print. He used @randowhale to upvote it and upvoted it himself. 

"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes." indeed.


![AndyCOmment.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmTwq4pdXrwHy8yMbd7FDsuaxAQiXe9Xr2CHEmufT7bZvo/AndyCOmment.png)
Additionally there was no vote by @andyluy on the original content of @ladyreijya. She had a 0.01 payout before I voted, now she has 0.04... The comment by @andyluy was counting a proud $1.53 .

![votes.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmPWLoahfAKSCis7qfsR7HYcZisPtxEnYXULisKLdy7Knw/votes.png)

I looked up his comment section and surely it was no surprise that he spammed the ef out of the comment. 

<h3>The Weapon</h3>

 He started this behavior about 4 days ago and it is increasing rapidly. Judging from the intervals I would tend to guess he is just using a template for the copy paste action - a halfautomated process at best.

![4days.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdLk2rCss8sihFisMrnDzKmUEo8cKq1XwyrXNyX3hvV7T/4days.png)

<h3>Further Investigation: Introduceyourself tag abuse, plagiarism and selfvoting</h3>

@andyluy really loves the introduceyourself tag, not only is his spamming aimed at Users posting in introduce yourself, he also for some reason tagged his [news article](https://steemit.com/life/@andyluy/brazilian-news-3) and [SteemPolice](https://steemit.com/steemit-police/@andyluy/steemit-police). That he posted in Steemit Police is so funny that it actually makes me sad, but more on that late.

-------------------------------

Just for fun I looked around the early posts of @andyluv and what do we have here? Plagiarism... Unless he created a one year old Reddit meme that is on top of the results and actually worked for Abject and decided to re-upload it in shoddy quality. Also it is really nice to see him get an almost 10$ payout on these arguably overvalued posts.


Andy's [drift souls video](https://steemit.com/funny/@andyluy/drift-souls) vs [Original](https://steemit.com/funny/@andyluy/drift-souls) that was not linked or mentioned  on Youtube that was not linked or mentioned

[Catmeme](https://steemit.com/funny/@andyluy/i-think-i-might-have-boken-the-cat) by Andy vs [Original on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AnimalTextGifs/comments/4oudv6/wtf_human/) that was not linked or mentioned

---------------------------------------------
He also is not afraid to recycle a majority of his partly delegated voting power into himself according to http://steemreports.com/outgoing-votes-info/?account=andyluy

![selfvotesandy.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmWEykpQ1EA15jhiMBhzot1cSJUgFMo5nmx8yUzVxKSpBS/selfvotesandy.png)



I am afraid there is still more to find but for now I have enough evidence of the common ruleset we have on Steemit being broken. Wouldn't you agree?

<h2>Stopping toxic behavior vs witchhunt</h2>

I want to emphasize that I do not want to kick @andyluy off the platform, but I want to show him that if you don't play by the rules there will be consequences, and by that I am not talking about ignoring his posts, I am talking about denying payout on spam, tag abuse and plagiarism aka flagging.

I am not strong enough to effectively flag Andy. This is why I am reaching out to my followers and fellow Steemians with this post. I am also curious if you are as convinced as me that @andyluv crossed the line with this behavior.

<h2>Established User vs Newbie</h2>

I actually met @ladyreijya in my own comment section. 
![ladylady.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmZ7ARGxtKPu12pm9k9KWKvNxVztwJbwCDu7Y9kD6Gg12C/ladylady.png)

Was her comment after my post has been available for **3 Minutes**. " Damn new Users spamming and selfup-voting all articles" was my first thought. The *share it on other media* part was a little intriguing to be honest, so I wanted to see if this might not be spam and indeed, it was a rather unique comment looking at her recent history.

![Lady.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmQzG6aZQeJJNwAANAkyvPNhziUah9TznU8PB6LCJfcrFb/Lady.png)

If a new User is not in complience with Steemit etiquette I will always try to reach out first. The case of @andyluy is different, he is almost as long as me on the platform (2-3 months), has a higher reputation than me and looking deeper into the actions of his account I am quite sure he is testing the limits on Steem and breaking **rules that  he is very well aware of**. I doubt that me making all this claims to him in Chat would convince him to change the way he treats Steemit.

<h2>A little message to Steemit-police and @sherlockholmes</h2>

You resteemed @andyluy's rather mediocre post about taking down a **new** Steemit User for plagiarism. I am seriously doubting your effectiveness with people like @andyluv getting **supported** by you instead of being called out.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and 48 others
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@andyluy · (edited)
$4.36
Hello @thatgermandude, first of all I would like to thank you, in order to to use the steemit-police and steemit-abuse exactly the way it should be used. 

Since I sing up in steemit, I've been learning every day about the purpose of it, how it works, and what is the better and right way to use it. 
there are some specific rules such as copy steal a post from another person, and post like it was you the one behind that Idea. I would say Everyone agreed with that.

but due to the decentralized nature of steemit there are others things people are still not in agreed if it is right or not.

For instance I have read post saying that Users such as @randowhale, @booster, and @belly should not exist. using the argument that they reward those who pay then instead of quality content. at the same time there are a big group of steemians (mainly new users) who see in the this accounts an opportunity to make their post more visible having then a better chance to be noticed.

I bring up this couse I like to bring up the diference between what is wrong by steemit definition and what is considered wrong by a group of people.
this is a really complex talking and I think a healthy discussion to steemit community.

I'm not saying my behavior sending those welcome messages to hundred of people, which in fact I did, is right. but that despite of look like a spamming message my intention was offer help and support to new users who might be feeling lost and lack of information. 

since the very first day I came here I have noticed that are bot accounts who send the same message to all posts using the introduceyourself tag, such as @bottymcbotface and @welcomebot. again, I'm not saying they are right or wrong on doing it. 

In your post you linked the [Drif souls](thttps://steemit.com/funny/@andyluy/drift-souls) post as an example of a plagiarism post, but I sincerely see as a distorted even a little dishonest  argument since you have omitted the fact that this was my very first autoral post here on steemit when my account was fresh new and didn't really know what steemit really was about and you made it looks like this is the kind of things I use to post. I invite you all to have a look in my [profile](https://steemit.com/@andyluy) to see with your own eyes.

So as you could see, despite of having started with a poorly post due to the lack of experience and information about steemit, after my 3rd post I start investing my time to not only study by myself and learn about steemit, but to producing quality autoral posts and especially posts about the things I've spend hours studying how it works in order to help others not having to pass through the hard time searching about it. 

so when I already have about 4 posts like that I decided I will do like those who spam useless "welcome" or "nice post follow me and I follow back" But I'll be posting recommendation of links that I think it might be useful to them and which I would have loved to receive in my first posts, and also offering help with any question or issues they might been facing to starting know steemit.

I have no bot for that, in fact don't even know how to build or run one, it is some of the thing that is on my learning lists couse I believe it is a Knowledge that can be useful in ones life. so I did send each one of that messages by myself individually, which tokes hours of my day, for weeks.  and I was getting something like 98% of positive feedback. lots of people who have seen my posts and liked have become followers, which is the main reason of I managed to have more than 1000 followers in 2 months, if they think I'm just a useless spammer I don't believe their reaction wold be keep following me.

yesterday in fact had the Idea of using the @randowhale to upvotes my welcome posts, and it end being not well received and leading us to this post.

well I sincerely don't see that as a crime or a playing against the rules, but I've realized it bothered a lot of people and despite of what I think, now That I have a better understanding the meaning of steemit. and it is all about respect, so in respect of all of those who were bothered of my welcoming posts I truly apologize, and say that I'll manage to change some of my habits that was badly received.

about my voting habits, well yesterday right before I made this welcome frenzy motivated by the new change of the randowhale it was under 50% of selfvotes, as far as I know selfvote is not a crime, in fact if it was steemit platform would simple remove this action. I fully understand that one who come here buying tons of SP and only vote himself (which is something I've seen) can be considered a harm to steemit community, which definitely is not my case 

1° couse I have less than 800 SP and my vote worth about 13 cents,

2° the +5200 Sp that I have (wich means something about 70 cents vote) I  lease from @minnowbooster paying from my own poket 120 SBD for it for 4 weeks selfupvoting is the way to have this investiment back and it even was on the @minnowbooster  advertisement and you can see [for yourself here](https://steemit.com/minnowbooster/@minnowbooster/minnowbooster-has-a-gift-for-you). Despite of all of this I don't really think I owe you @thatgermandude any explanation about my voting habits, only did in respect of those who might trusted me and might get themself fooled by your once more out of context and, in my opinion dishonest, argument.

Summarizing despite of some things I've already pointed before Your post is greatly constructed I'm truly glad to see #steemit-police which was [a tag I created](https://steemit.com/steemit-police/@andyluy/steemit-police) in order to help steemit community growing healthy being used to expose ones having a behavior that are bothering people, especially If I'm this one, so I can read and understand why my habits have bothered then, make my intentions and point of view listened too, and properly say I'm sorry for every one who I've bothered. 

Thank you for hosting this opportunity to let things clear.
👍  , , , ,
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@thatgermandude ·
Hi Andy,

Thanks for this long and friendly statement, it really shows that I might have judged you a little too fast.

However there are some points I disagree with you on:

Well first off I am not a fan of @booster and @randowhale. I have ranted about this before, but I also understand that there is a benefit for Users who feel like they can get no visibility otherwise.

On welcomebots: I like welcomebot because he leads the new Users to a page where they are given tips for making better Steemit posts and there is a competition for all those new Steemians to win some SBD by writing a good article. At least this was the case when I talked to the creators of @welcomebot.

I think @bottymcbotface is producing unhealthy spam.

Those two are introducing themselves as bots though, getting an automated message from a User feels strange. I remember ignoring the first comment I had from @twinner because it was automated, even though @twinner is a good guy who ended up helping me a lot with Steemit.

I should have mentioned that driftsouls and broken cat were two of your first posts, on the other hand their title is very misleading (into thinking you made the video/gif on your own. But yeah, I should have mentioned for objectivity/fairness that I saw you do a whole bunch of normal, decent quality posts.

>as far as I know selfvote is not a crime, in fact if it was steemit platform would simple remove this action

the only argument people bring when I want to fork out selfvoting is that people will find a way around it by creating alternate accounts ie. Selfvoting is generally not healthy, because we could all just do 30 selfvotes per day and be done with Steem. I also don't see why the whales should follow a rule when we minnows and dolphins don't follow it. Sure with great power comes great responsibility, but I don't why the rich should be punished while we minnows do whatever we want.

I also think you are missreading what @minnowbost wrote. I don't think it is an instruction on how to recoup your money or even profit from leasing SP, but we can ask them theirself, I don't know much about @minnowbooster.

You are right, you dont owe me an explanation for your voting habits, I would have never made this post only because you do a lot of self voting. There are  people who will support you despite it, but I am not one of them ;).

Again thanks for this civil and thought-out comment.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@fatboy · (edited)
$0.93
I have reviewed your post and anduluy answer and honestly I do not see you have a CLEAR case here for abuse. There are currently much worse cases for abuse, like the top whale authors. Let's target them. I upvoted your post in the beginning, but now wondering whether it was correct or not.  I find good bots useful and do not see anything bad in them.  (Upvoted for this comment for visibility and yes, upvoting yourself is NOT A BAD THING.)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@thatgermandude ·
Oh OK. I don't see how having someone doing worse is really a good argument, but out of curiosity: who  are the whales you are referring to?

I have mixed feelings about bots. I met some good ones, but seeing all the spam here I am not sure bots are as healthy as I once thought. I don't see how this got anything to do with Andy, who does not actually use a bot.

You see, I am completely against self-voting, but I understand how many people, especially the ones who hold a decent stake in Steem, like you good sir, want to have influence and visibility for their investment and be a able to also give themself a little bit of a payout.

I prefer honest self voting over disguised selfvoting through alternate accounts any day of the week. But I think there is a limit were honest self voting stops and greed begins. I would say 67% is in the realm of greed.  You have 0.8% self-voting btw... not sure why you would argue for limitless self-voting.

There has also been [a post](https://steemit.com/steemit-police/@andyluy/steemit-police-update-1) on this topic.

I honestly don't think that Andy is a bad guy. We all want to make money on Steemit and he got a clear goal on what he wants to do with the money: Study in Japan. As I am a massive fan of Anime, I would love to see him reach that goal.

However in this game of Steem there are certain rules and I think his willingly trying to bend  them, him proofing to be actually rather stubborn the topic and you taking his side, maybe I was wrong about his intentions and I apologize if conclusions were made too fast. 

I still think he should change his habits.
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@fatboy ·
Hi! After reviewing @andyluy current posting habits I almost have to take my words back. 
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@thatgermandude ·
oh and if you are referring to @berniesanders , I also admitted in this comment section that I talked to him about this topic, partly because I see @randowhale  responsible - @andyluy has been using rando since his first post. I thought that Bernie would maybe care, I was a vocal opponent of Sanders in the [Korea Wars](https://steemit.com/steemit/@eirik/wait-lets-talk-about-gaming-tags-tygergamer-and-potential-rewards) and I encountered him when I was part of @Steemtrail again, but I was not vocal this time other trails (Not Rick&Joe!) asked me  to not get too involved in the discussion and I kinda regret that I respected that in hindsight.

I always hated **the way** Bernie made his posts, I don't believe cursing should be part of a serious discussion. However my short talk to him and his reaction to this post confirmed to me that @berniesanders does care a lot about the success Steemit.

Judging from the responses I got from @andyluy he might actually just not see how harmful his behavior is and I might have taken a wrong approach - I should have talked to @andyluy before writing about him.
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@fatboy ·
$0.03
Hi! Upvoting yourself is bad, but again, if good guys do not do it, bad guys will. That means bad actors will slowly gain more power, so do upvote yourself, otherwise you are hurting the platform too. I was referring to mindhunger, me-tarzan and tamim. Jerry banfield had a post on that 3 of them combined suck almost 35% of the reward pool by creating automated content and upvoting themselves daily
👍  
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@maulanailham ·
Good information. Thanks for support me back @maulanailham
👎  ,
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@nutela ·
So we could use @Cheetah to check comments as well!
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@thatgermandude ·
I thought cheetah is only checking plagiarism not spam.
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@nutela ·
$0.03
Well if you copy yourself that's plagiarism too and that should be noted! Spammers will copy/paste their spam for sure to save time.
👍  
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@official-hord ·
thanks was really helpful..... Upvoted!! please kindly folow back
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@pathforger ·
$0.03
This is an absolutely excellent post, even if I personally would have opted to leave the identity of the potentially offending user anonymous at this stage. :c) This could have been a powerful warning without drawing unwanted attention. Still - a very good example of detectivework (Thank you kindly for the steemreports.com link - its a nice tool. Also my compliments on refraining from self-upvoting ^_^).

From that which you say, I do believe that @andyluy is what, in gamer terms, we call a 'power gamer'. A power gamer of the worse kind will do absolutely anything and everything that s/he feels that s/he is able to get away with on the game table (plenty of power gamers refrain from the worst behaviors).

This we could lay entirely at his or her feet - but it would be fair to consider the climate of 'the game table' (Steemit).

<b>The platform permits payout-affecting self-upvotes</b>

It does. 

I can upvote any of my posts and any of my comments. 

Any user can. 

Never mind that its a hollow practice that means little in determining the true quality of one's content.

This contributes toward the, at best, pretentious helping of oneself to the steemit reward pool.

<b>The platform promotes quantity over quality</b>

Sure - quality content is more likely to gain a decent amount of attention...

However any have figured out and chosen to act upon the information that they can get greater overall payouts by courting sensationalism, intrigue and simple interest in bite-sized chunks - a convincing image from a 3rd party source, 2-3 paragraphs that they banged together themselves, and they're gold.

How else does one consistently rattle out the suggested 4+ posts daily over the long term? ;c)

<hr>

I see that I've turned yet another comment into a mini-post. ¬_¬

One last thing. I also spent a period visiting a lot of user's introduction posts (it was the only way for a person with my kind of comments to tally 500 comments over 10 days for a contest). While these comments certainly had a fair bit in common with each other, they benefited each user (or at least the majority of them).

My point being that I can see some value to these comments. ^_~
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@thatgermandude ·
Thanks for  the comment, mate. Again appreciated that your reply is almost as long as a post ;).

I never thought about leaving out the identity of the person at first. Would have been a great way to test the waters since this is my first time advocating for flags.

I also see that it might be hypocritical that I didn't mention that there might be another side of viewing his action as a passionated helper for new Steemit Users that is proud and therefor upvotes his work. 

Digging deeper into his account history that  narrative kinda vanished for me though.

>The platform permits payout-affecting self-upvotes

Yes and I am allowed to flag self upvotes if I think they are spam or pushing spammed content.

If we all just logon Steem to put in our 20 daily self upvotes and maybe 10 votes on other people so we save face, then it is not really. People tend to only get upset when whales don't vote normally, but why should they if we minnows and dolphins also only think about ourselves.

Thanks for providing some criticism to my approach, I feel myself that I might have overshot the goal with this post, but the short investigation I did, made me quite "passionate.
👍  
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@pathforger ·
$0.02
You are welcome @thatgermandude.

Eh. Long comments are less sustainable than I'd like them to be. ;c)

Just because I'd do something in a certain way does not mean that you need feel the same way. 

It seems that you have received quite a bit of feedback since where we last left off. I am happy to see that you stimulated this level of feedback.

Yes you are allowed to flag whatever content you feel like. Of couse what one considers spam may differ to another's definition of such. Some even like to flag posts because they disagree with the views expressed (political motives - even though they might claim to be flagging spam).

I never suggested that the behavior of a minnow and that of a whale should be different. Of course, one ought to take on a more forgiving slant where newbie minnows are concerned (though even whales deserve a little slack here and there).

My critique was not intended to shoot down your approach - I lay far more criticism at the feet of Steemit's structure. That you have given what I've had to say just a little thought is more than enough for me.

Oh - and yes - people who are overtaken by emotions can occasionally engage in a tradeoff for the raw motivation that they thus harness. This is not necessarily a negative.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@spaminator ·
$0.60
While @andyluy isn't using a bot - the content is repetitive. It could be argued they provide a service.  If you don't like it - flag it. If they retaliate then let someone me or someone else from @spaminator or @steemcleaners know in [steemit.chat.](https://steemit.chat)

@patrice

The Spaminators
👍  , ,
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@andyluy · (edited)
I fully agreed on what @patrice said in name of @spaminator.
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@thatgermandude ·
Thanks this is exactly how I wanted to handle it. I was afraid of retaliation or even me being portrait as the aggressor in the conflict, though. I would have loved to clear the conflict without contacting the officials on Steemit, however I am thankful to @ats-david for finding the right words when talking to @andyluy on Steemit.chat.

Next time I see someone who is in my opinion violating the etiquette of Steemit I will try to solve it more directly, but it is good to know that there are people I can turn to in case it escalates.
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@spaminator ·
$0.02
You can always stop by [#steemitabuse](https://steemit.chat/channel/steemitabuse), [#steemcleaners-public](https://steemit.chat/channel/steemcleaners-public), or direct message me (@patrice) if you have questions or want advice on how to handle something. 

>Next time I see someone who is in my opinion violating the etiquette of Steemit I will try to solve it more directly, but it is good to know that there are people I can turn to in case it escalates.

This is only my recommendation for comment spam. You may want to reach out to @steemcleaners for help with other etiquette problems before flagging. 

@patrice
👍  
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@spoofnix ·
$0.03
And here I am trying to make consistent posts and up votes and follows, resteems and comments... lol I also ran into this person on my feed.  :(
👍  
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@happyme ·
You get a vote from me for trying to be a good Steemian.
👍  
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@spoofnix ·
And a follow for me for the kindness in return!
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@thatgermandude ·
Feelsbadman, I saw that the number of automated introduceyourself messages has increased. There were some good one but most were spam, but at least they were short. This one is long and not really that helpful. Makes a bad impression on new Users when they see overvalued spam like this, wouldn't you agree?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
$0.03
I think you have a case to do as you please. Having said that, have a look at @personz and @smackdownkitty to see if they can add to their list. 

Three are a few others and a quick line to @personz in chat may help you get a better path than going it alone. At least he is deep enough in knowledge to point you in a direction.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@thatgermandude ·
Thanks for the hint. I would have loved to do some self-justice in the good ol' anarcho-fashion, but I guess reporting him to the higher-ups/institutions is the best way.  Steemit is after all a mere image of todays society.
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@tarazkp ·
It is not just about that, but it is a voting power thing and you will wear yours thin. Perhaps there are other ways-
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