What Should the Minimum Wage be? by thepholosopher

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libertarian · @thepholosopher · Aug 21 '16 (edited)

$10.35

What Should the Minimum Wage be?

<html>
<p>https://youtu.be/8AYCIYb_fQA</p>
<h1>It should be $0.00. Why? Because that's the real minimum wage.</h1>
<h3>When you cannot get a job because you don't have enough skills to be paid the minimum wage, you make $0.00.</h3>
<h1>The minimum wage does not lift people out of poverty.</h1>
<h3>If it did, the government would just tell other countries to raise their minimum wage, instead of sending them foreign aid.</h3>
<h3>If it did, why not make the minimum wage $100 an hour, or even $1,000, or even a $1,000,000 an hour and make everyone millionaires?<br>
<br>
http://fk9913znn4cbb6cf4e6a0z1d.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/meme-minimum.png</h3>
<h3>Obviously, lifting people out of poverty doesn't work that way.</h3>
<h3>Wealth is not increased by raising the minimum wage.</h3>
<h1>The minimum wage is actually a cost.</h1>
<h3>The cost of the minimum wage is unemployment.</h3>
<h3>The cost of the minimum wage is a barrier to those trying to gain job skills.</h3>
<h3>The cost of the minimum wage is higher prices for goods and services, as the expense of the minimum wage is passed down to the customers.</h3>
<h3>And, in a country where student debt has surpassed credit card debt to the tune of over 1 trillion dollars, pushing young people into destructive educational debt, instead of paid apprenticeships, <strong>is wrong.&nbsp;</strong></h3>
<h1>This insanity must stop.</h1>
<h3>It's time to put an end to the giant debt requirement to gain real world skills.</h3>
<h1>It's time to free the market.</h1>
<p><img src="https://img1.steemit.com/0x0/https://scontent-mia1-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13879314_893755617435951_2459706084711371418_n.jpg?oh=8dbdab9351e3071454541fbc09d2548c&amp;oe=585C75C2" width="732" height="960"/></p>
<p><br></p>
<h3>Always remember to question and refine your beliefs based on reason, evidence, and principles.</h3>
<h3>&nbsp;Cheers, to the spread of liberty and peace,<br>
~The Pholosopher</h3>
<blockquote>Philosophy is my core. Reason is my foundation. Phở is my sustenance.<br>
<br>
Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/DaPholosopher">https://twitter.com/DaPholosopher</a><br>
YouTube: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT5KWZpslhrYKBhdCUUzr1Q">https://www.youtube.com/channel/DaPholosopher</a><br>
Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/dapholosopher/">https://www.facebook.com/dapholosopher/</a></blockquote>
<p><img src="https://img1.steemit.com/0x0/https://scontent-mia1-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13412876_862917117186468_842510363052951672_n.jpg?oh=729ad8ade39014bf3dc3f6d9d77c6209&amp;oe=585CDF67" width="851" height="315"/></p>
</html>

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👎 business

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@all-of-us · Aug 20 '16

A much fairer way of taxation (which is a need of any nation) would be all income obtained through a blockchain and taxed at source, then visibly distributed to the relevant departments that in turn would be required to show where the taxed funds were being spent and why.

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@thepholosopher · Aug 21 '16

How is an organization forcing people within a geographical area to give up some of their wealth (taxation) a "need"?

👍 volcomic.com

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@all-of-us · Aug 21 '16

So please explain to me how in this wonderful world with zero taxation would the public road networks be maintained and how exactly would you fund the Fire services, Ambulances, Public education, Military, Police, Who would pay for the Embassy's and the staff that work there. There are many thousands more need that we have as a group of people... 
Yes we can do without many of the current "needs" we have but that doesn't mean all the need go away. Stop and think for a moment what exactly would happen if every person on the planet were to simply stop paying Tax... Things would go on for a while, but within days - weeks Schools would close, Hospitals in many countries would close, the water and electricity supply in many countries would be drastically restricted as they are partially funded by the Government.

I'm not saying the system is right, I'm simply saying the system needs updating but that system will have to include some form of "Taxation/Funding" for the greater social needs... or do we really live in a world where the needs/wants of the few outway the needs of the many?

👍 thk2b

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1 reply

@bluehorseshoe · Aug 20 '16

Absolutely 0 and I even felt that way when I was earning minimum wage because of some derelicts I worked with that didn't deserve minimum but where guaranteed it and they knew it.

👍 thepholosopher

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@bola · Aug 21 '16 (edited)

LOL "End taxation, free the market" only the rich say that. Lets get back into reality, top leading nations in this world have high taxes, the taxation gives wealth and services to everyone. The top leading rich nations that tax, have people flocking to their countries from poor nations that don't tax.
Here's some advice.... If your working minimum wage don't spend above your means. Save, learn new skills to get a new job, learn programming its free to learn and you don't have to go to school for it. I was on minimum wage for 6 years and i got through it by working, learning new skills, and the taxation didn't hold me down. If you have debt from school,  "get back to reality"  school doesn't guarantee you a job when your done, and taxation has nothing to do with it.

👍 greatness, dobermansden, goodtime, lighter, badman, boooya, sunnyd, jayc, tyga, masterp

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@thepholosopher · Aug 21 '16

> Lets get back into reality, top leading nations in this world have high taxes, the taxation gives wealth and services to everyone.

How does taxation give wealth and services to everyone? If that were true, then there would be zero homeless people in any geographical area that gets taxed. Seattle, WA is an example of a geographical area that gets taxed yet has one of the highest homeless populations in Washington state.

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@telos · Aug 21 '16

"How does taxation give wealth and services to everyone? If that were true, then there would be zero homeless people in any geographical area that gets taxed."

That's a False Dilemma fallacy. There are plenty of points where taxes are used to help people but the problems are too large, or where taxes are simply used ineffectively. It does not prove that taxes can't be used to improve society, and in fact in general societies with higher taxation do tend to have fewer social problems.

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@business · Aug 20 '16

Enjoy your minimum wage.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2014/jktlnZ.gif

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@erroneous-logic · Aug 20 '16

Did you flag someone because you didn't like their article?

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@david.prochnow · Aug 20 '16

$0.03

This is bullshit. To legitimate a free market you have to ensure that even the weakest and poorest get a chance to thrive. With forcing human beings into a highly efficient treadmill and killing everyone who doesn't have the capabilities to live up to the "expectations" of the system, you disqualify the system in general.

👍 business, telos, thk2b

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@anti-state · Aug 20 '16

Your first sentence & whole comment  is bullshit.

👍 dullhawk

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@david.prochnow · Aug 21 '16

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/8f/8f1109c70ac5d8c8491b1651a876ca59c0c94f513b9bfc7b0f8ed3b938d3810e.jpg

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@ragingliberty · Aug 21 '16

If you have wage control, how is the market truly "free?"  Labor is a commodity; it is bought and sold.  If applied correctly, your argument makes trade tariffs and price controls (i.e.  minimum prices for gas or a pack of cigarettes) legitimate.  You can't have socialism and a free market.  Sorry.

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@david.prochnow · Aug 21 '16

At no point did I say that I wanted a completely free and ungoverned market.

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1 reply

@thepholosopher · Aug 21 '16 (edited)

>  This is bullshit.

Not a counter argument to what I said. What exactly did I write that was bullshit?

> To legitimate a free market you have to ensure that even the weakest and poorest get a chance to thrive.

Allowing people to keep the wealth and property they acquired through voluntary means instead of forcing them  to give some of it to others, IS ensuring that everyone gets a chance to thrive.

> With forcing human beings into a highly efficient treadmill and killing everyone who doesn't have the capabilities to live up to the "expectations" of the system, you disqualify the system in general.

You're not describing an anarchist society; you're describing a statist one. In a statist society, those with political power and their minions force other human beings to give up x amount of their property and earnings. If they don't pay they can be taken away to prison and can be killed for resisting. In an anarchist society, the ethical norm is to have voluntary interactions, and to be free to choose who you associate with and work for/with.

👍 xondra, thk2b, thepholosopher

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@david.prochnow · Aug 21 '16

I didn't propose a completely anarchistic society, did I?
Actually I think governments can do a lot of good things (and yes, they do a lot of not so good things).
A hyper efficient and totally frictionless market, as your kind believes in, generates, especially now that a lot of labor becomes obsolete (due to automation and computers), some problems.

A lot of jobs in such a society won't pay enough for the workers to (literally) survive. In your totally libertarian society, those people would starve until enough of them died to bring the market back to a stable equilibrium. I'm sorry, but in my opinion, this is just wrong.

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4 replies

@xondra · Aug 21 '16

No, you don't. You don't have to ensure nothing. That's what gives fuel to totalitarian societies, like socialism.
I'm Venezuelan, I know.

👍 thepholosopher

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@dwarrilow2002 · Mar 20 '18

$0.09

Hello @thepholosopher
I just came across this post today but I thought I would revisit the topic in light of the experience we are going through in Canada right now. Here is my [post](https://steemit.com/libertarian/@dwarrilow2002/what-should-the-minimum-wage-be-or-a-rebuttal). 

I respect your opinions. Libertarianism is a destination but it isn't the journey. While we are making that journey, people need to use the tools to better themselves along the way. I would rather the government make a rule saying that people need to make enough money to feed, clothe and house themselves (if they are working full time) instead of funding food banks or welfare programs.

👍 dwarrilow2002

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@jamesc · Aug 21 '16

Agreed... Aside from being impossible to ethically enforce, minimum wage excludes some people from working.  It hurts those that need the money the most.

👍 thepholosopher

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@mikesteem · May 23 '18

$1.78

https://i.imgflip.com/22i1up.jpg

👍 steemswede, graphene-curator, mus, mikesteem, bobbysteem

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@sc-steemit · Aug 20 '16 (edited)

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@volcomic.com · Aug 20 '16

haha! What are you talking about? Taxation is government taking money from people and threatening them with deadly force to do so. How does that have anything to do with "fending for oneself?"

The government is $20 trillion in debt. It spends its monies on blowing up people 3,000 miles away.

I don't think you're looking at the right causation of societal poverties.

👍 thepholosopher

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@bola · Aug 21 '16

I agree, and this post is a big fail.

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@telos · Aug 20 '16

Deadly force... Lol. You mean sternly worded letters and eventually wage garnishment. They do not give the death penalty for tax evasion.

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2 replies

@thepholosopher · Aug 21 '16

Nothing like Anarchyball memes to illustrate the absurdity of minimum wage arguments!
> https://s9.postimg.io/r1ovonxen/CW9ug_ZUk_AELkhw.jpg

> https://s9.postimg.io/o51uodrkv/11311349_1471240999852922_1473711158_n.jpg

> https://s9.postimg.io/ss7wq5exr/Co_Um80h_Us_AA1ywv.jpg

👍 thepholosopher, justin222

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@xondra · Aug 21 '16

Yeah baby!

👍 thepholosopher

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@xondra · Aug 21 '16

Libertarian is a category? I'm loving this place!

👍 thepholosopher

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