I couldn't agree more.  13 weeks is just too much.  This actually scares investors away.  Imagine yourself buying  $200k Hive and powering  it up. How do you get out when the market is up?  Looks like a trap.  I think it should be reduced to like 6weeks.  

STEEM did it, yet we didn't see the "negative" effect on the price. 

Price performance is the best marketing you can give in this space. 

It's rather long, a bit too long honestly. Pretty much if you lock up your hive you can count on never really getting it out which I feel causes some people to not power it up. 7 days would be the minimum but honestly I feel like 2 weeks would be the max.

You have other platforms now which only lock up funds for 3 or so days. I understand why hive needs to be at least 7. 13 weeks is a long flippin time.

I also feel like more people have a understanding of RC resource credits now due to Wax, Tron and other platforms that use this. It would make more sense to have a grudge right here on hive that shows how many RC you have and how to get more along with some better error messaging.

To be honest the entire Hive blockchain needs some better UI. What makes sense to a dev for sure does not make sense to someone new joining hive. It ends in frustration and them leaving. Our retention rates are literally horrible.

Cant we do some kinda of vote on this which isn't based on your stake?

Or just keep some Hive liquid to trade.

That last statement is a lot more true than a lot of people would probably admit.  I keep a couple hundred hive liquid, mainly for the power up days, but you might be on to something there.

I have a hypothetical idea here. What if you have to "season" your HP before it can be used for governance? Much in the same way you need to keep your cash locked up in a savings account for 6 months or more when looking to buy a house, what if that 13 time period were applied to the front side of staking? When you stake your HP, you need to keep it staked for 13 weeks before it is usable for governance functions.  Sure, it'll slow things down for minnows who are looking to power up their standings, but perhaps we can find additional ways to help them out via expanded delegations and other community support.

The long 13 week powerdown is ridiculous. The witnesses and big whales talked about reducing it months ago, but we're still where we are, stuck with 13 weeks. I think we all experienced the frustration of watching price go high, but can't do much to take profits because of the locked stake. This is not attractive to big investors, especially in a fast moving crypto market where liquidity is essential. I supported the 4 weeks powerdown because I find it balanced between security and having a descent liquidity.

I get your point, but I prefer the payment system as it is right now. I get that it doesn't allow for investment but you can also gather hbd payouts too.

But then again, I'm new here so...yeah. 

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The 13-week period is just too long. The 13-week power down time probably drives away more speculators than not.

If HIVE was an ETH-priced token, people might be more tolerable to such a lengthy period. But, what drives ETH price isn't entirely speculation. 

Just an idea I just had. Feel free to criticize and destroy it.

What can be done using the current system:

* Power Down to a 3<sup><u>rd</u></sup> party using the *Outgoing Routes*
* Someone could establish a "*dBank*" application to instantly *lend* HIVE to someone who wants to cash out while the account owner routes the power down to "*dBank*".
* Acceptance and interest can be charged based on the account's "*credit score*".
* Capital to be lent can be acquired via investment, paying no more than half of the minimal lending interest to investors.
* *Credit Score* for each loan would need to be calculated using a formula involving several factors like
	* "Hive Reputation",
	* account's age,
	* account's posts,
	* percentage of dBank's capital that is being risked with the loan,
	* percentage of total Hive Power being powered down,
	* total Hive of successful previous loans
	* etc.
# BUT:
* Needs too much trust amount those involved.
* Not exactly a decentralized bank.
* Needs a solid way to ensure loans are being payed, like a blacklist or something.

It is just an idea...

4-week power down would be nice.

Would you be able to initiate a proposal based voting- FOR and AGAINST, similar to what @thecryptodrive did last time. I believe it was very close. If there is high demand for 4-week power down, this may convince the dev team to include such change?

Well said. Investors do not like illuiqid investments like users do not like downvotes.  

The point of a lockup period in blockchain that uses staking as a security mechanism is to punish stakers that engage with the blockchain in non-value adding ways. A shorter lockup period is just conceding that you believe the coin has no intrinsic value and you would rather have as a pump-and-dump instrument that people can speculate on. It decreases the security of the coin so you can sell it faster.

The fact that everyone agrees with it in the comments disappoints me. It shows a clear lack of what the plebs call "diamond hands" and a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of cryptocurrencies. The perceived loss is well deserved. If you want a better cryptocurrency, earn it, build it. Needing speculators is a fancy way of saying "I don't believe in this cryptocurrency outside of it's ability to make me money by selling my bags to some schmuck".

I feel anyone that wants to power down should pay some percentage of their hive, I believe power downs are to take gains, these percentages can always be burned

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@klye is working on something that allows people to instantly powerdown. 

>In my opinion, it should be the goal to let people participate/earn within the system without having to lock up funds for months

Yep!  oh except for whales - they should be locked up for years. haha

I dislike Sun but his 4 week power down was only good decision he made, i am still powering up every chance i get and dont plan to take profit for at least another 5 years.

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Agreed, I would like to see the power down phase reduced as well. Otherwise keeping some full liquid Hive handy is a way to go, although, I still just power everything up lol 

> Longterm Solution: Reduce Powerdown. 

Short term solution : Reduce powerdown to 5 weeks

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Your recollection of what triggered the initial dump to 10 cents is not accurate. It wasn't "some stakeholders" that decided to dump a few weeks after the airdrop. The crash happened when Upbit distributed their portion of the airdrop to the traders on that exchange. I wouldn't consider people who live by speculating on exchanges as stakeholders (in the strict sense of the word).

Semantics aside, your point that having funds locked is beneficial to speculators in detriment of vested holders is on the mark. It's quite obvious, people buying the coin on exchanges are guaranteed not to lose by virtue of the vested stakeholders dumping on them.

Those memes 😁 especially the Cat - yes in a word 13 weeks is far too long, this is the challenge with such a powerdown time and crypto as we all know being inherently volatile.

A shorter time frame would help to a point, the thing is, like you mention, people who believe in Hive powerup at every opportunity to support good content.

Therefore the answer completely eludes us, maybe keep liquid Hive or ... carry on for the time being powering up 

I am holding this point of view
Two ways. At first I would say it is bad
Due to lack of experience but we see how it is done in steem and the outcome is unchanged. 
At some points we will have to implement this change in the name of decentralization. 
The same way powered hive did receive an inflationary percentage the system should do the same for that amount in the case of withdrawal. 
I know it is possible and this action can prove to make us more decentralized. 
Wait and see. 

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Anyone else remember how steem started off at 104 weeks powerdown? Lol

There are definitely some intriguing points here, and this debate is one that should happen in a more definitive way. I do usually have some liquid HIVE in my exchange wallet to play with, but I still think 13 weeks is a bit excessive. And regardless of the staking/unstaking structure, I'm not sure how many newer and lower-level users are participating in the governance side of things... that's more of an onboarding issue. Thanks for bringing sharing these thoughts! I hope you get some moderately heavy aquatic creatures in the chat thread. :P

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Question. Would you sacrifice 10% of your stack when Hive was trading at 10k sats to power down instantly? 

Reward long-term holders and punish short-term speculators. Instead of burning the 10%, what if that 10% went back to HP holders? So when Hive pumps, lots of people sacrifice 10% to cash out. The ones that stayed should be rewarded greater by the system. We don't need extra inflation for rewards, a simple exit tax. 

The tax can be opt-in or opt-out. Users who want to sacrifice some security for more freedom can do so under the system.