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Why the universe is most likely not infinite – Part 5: Popular argument against infinity by vikisecrets

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· @vikisecrets · (edited)
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Why the universe is most likely not infinite – Part 5: Popular argument against infinity
Ein beliebtes Argument, die Unendlichkeit des Universums zu widerlegen, lautet ungefähr so: Wenn das Universum uendlich (groß) wäre, warum ist der Nachthimmel dann nicht weiß statt schwarz?

Wenn es unendlich viele Sterne in allen Richtungen gäbe, müsste der Nachhimmel doch weiß erstrahlen. Das Licht der unendlich vielen Sterne würde sich summieren und den gesamten Nachthimmel ausleuchten. Das ist aber nicht der Fall. Captain Obvious.

Nicht schlecht, aber ganz so einfach ist es auch wieder nicht, die Unendlichkeit zu widerlegen. Das Argument macht nämlich drei weitere implizite Annahmen, erstens dass das Universum isotropisch und homogen sei (das ist wahrscheinlich wahr, Universum in allen Richtungen ähnlich strukturiert), zweitens Licht sich unendlich weit bewegen kann (Licht kann tatsächlich sehr große Distanzen zurücklegen) und drittens das Universum bereits ewig lange existiere (Steady State Universe), damit uns das Licht von fernen Sternen überhaupt erreichen könne.

Sollte eine dieser Annahmen falsch sein, würde der Nachhimmel großteils schwarz sein, unabhängig davon, ob das Universum unendlich groß ist oder nicht.

Die Lichtgeschwindigkeit ist jedenfalls endlich (nicht unendlich schnell) und in kosmischen Dimensionen eigentlich ziemlich langsam und der limitierende Faktor, wenn das Universum laut herrschender Big-Bang-Theorie vor 13.8 Milliarden Jahren entstanden ist und sich seitdem ausdehnt, hat das Universum einfach nicht genug Zeit gehabt, damit uns das Licht von (un)endlich weit entfernten Sternen überhaupt erreicht.

Das Argument funktioniert nicht ganz so gut wie erhofft, ist aber auch kein Beweis für die Unendlichkeit und schließt zumindest ein unendlich altes, unendlich großes Steady-State-Universum aus.

Der Nachhimmel ist schwarz und nicht weiß.

Was sagt ihr dazu?

ps. es gibt übrigens noch ein weiteres Problem des Weißen-Nachthimmel-Arguments und zwar dass die Helligkeit der Sterne quadratisch mit der Distanz abnehmen und Sterne das Licht von dahinterliegenden Sternen teilweise blockieren. Ein weißer Nachhimmel wäre selbst bei unendlich vielen Sternen unrealistisch.

![sd-universe-finite-or-infinite-2.jpg](https://images.hive.blog/DQma7Fr2pXcm7v4ndSDkxvUR1ApATnjniAhinGKokG37Qan/sd-universe-finite-or-infinite-2.jpg)

*Is the universe infinite or rather finite? AI-generated illustration (Stable Diffusion)*

## English

A popular argument to refute the infinity of the universe goes something like this: If the universe were infinite (infinitely large), why isn't the night sky white instead of black?

If there were an infinite number of stars in all directions, the night sky would have to be white. The light from the infinite number of stars would add up and illuminate the entire night sky. But that is not the case. Captain Obvious.

Not bad, but it's not quite that easy to disprove infinity. The argument makes three further implicit assumptions, firstly that the universe is isoptropic and homogeneous (this is probably true, the universe is structured similarly in all directions), secondly that light can travel infinitely far (light can really travel extreme long distances) and thirdly that the universe has already existed for an eternity (Steady State Universe) so that the light from distant stars can reach us at all.

If one of these assumptions is wrong, the night sky would be mostly black, regardless of whether the universe is infinite or not.

In any case, the speed of light is finite (not infinitely fast) and actually quite slow in cosmic dimensions and the limiting factor, if according to the prevailing big bang theory the universe was created 13.8 billion years ago and has been expanding ever since, the universe has simply not had enough time for the light from (im)finitely distant stars to reach us at all.

The argument does not work quite as well as hoped, but it is also not a proof of infinity and at least rules out an infinitely old, infinitely large steady-state universe.

The night sky is black, not white.

What do you think?

ps. by the way, there is another problem with the white sky argument, the brightness of stars decreases quadratically with respect to distance and stars partially block the light of stars behind them. A white night sky would therefore be unrealistic even with an infinite number of stars.

## Finite or infinite universe
Part 1: Definitions https://stemgeeks.net/hive-163521/@vikisecrets/why-the-universe-is-most-likely-not-infinite-part-1-definitions-reply-with-infinite-or-finite

Part 2: Scientific question or not? https://stemgeeks.net/hive-163521/@vikisecrets/why-the-universe-is-most-likely-not-infinite-part-2-scientific-question-or-not

Part 3: Infinity as a placeholder for ignorance https://stemgeeks.net/hive-163521/@vikisecrets/why-the-universe-is-most-likely-not-infinite-part-3-infinity-as-a-placeholder-for-ignorance

Part 4: Everything we measure is finite
https://stemgeeks.net/@vikisecrets/why-the-universe-is-most-likely-not-infinite-part-4-everything-we-measure-is-finite

*Live your Secrets and Hive Prosper* 🍯

xx Viki @vikisecrets

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@aloysiusmbaba ·
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I think there's a theory by Albert Einstein that says the universe is expanding away at the edges at the speed of light. If this is true then the universe is not infinite since it has edges and expands. This is an interesting lesson in astrophysics. Thanks for sharing and have a wonderful day. 
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@beeber ·
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Wenn's endlich wäre stellt sich doch die Frage von was es umgeben ist und wo dieses etwas dann endet. 
Ich hatte als Kind diese Vorstellung, es sei ein großes Aquarium, das im Wohnzimmer Gottes steht 
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@bitandi ·
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!LOLZ
!PIZZA 
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@chinito ·
What about black light?! :P
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@dhedge ·
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@djbravo ·
As we all know this is a small place where we live and the rest is all water around us. This is the system of nature and it has to run like this for the rest of life 
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@eniolw ·
$0.12
Very interesting.

> This argument does not work quite as well as hoped, but the Big Bang is also not a proof of infinity and at least rules out an infinitely old, infinitely large steady-state universe.

This would be the case if you make the assumption that the universe started with the Big Bang. However, the Big Bang is not the origin of the universe, but the earliest state that we have evidence of. It is like the highest point of a mountain, which is not the beginning of the mountain, but the place where it starts to descend. The Big Bang describes how the universe evolved from an incredibly dense and tiny point, but it doesn't account for the laws of physics and other things. More and more cosmologists are moving away from the idea that the Big Bang was an absolute beginning and consider it a sort of "first moment of time", as Sean Carroll puts it.

I would say that this argument reminds me of another argument that apologists use to defend the existence of God using science to make philosophical points, such as in the Kalam cosmological argument. William Lane Craig is one of the main defenders of that argument but he was was critiziced by top physicists and mathematicians such as Sean Carroll, Roger Penrose, Carlo Rovelli, Adrian Moore and others on the plausibility that the universe may be eternal and and therefore, actual infinities may exist. The documentary is on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=femxJFszbo8
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@vieira ·
>Sean Carroll, Roger Penrose, Carlo Rovelli, Adrian Moore and others on the plausibility that the universe may be eternal and and therefore, actual infinities may exist.

Do you think the universe can be eternal? This, I think, brings many aporias.

If the past is infinite (rather uninitiated), we can go infinitely backwards, right? But if the past is infinite, it would take an infinity of time to elapse (the past), wouldn't it? But an infinite time would never end, precisely because it is infinite. However, the past has already end because we are, obviously, in the present. So, how can the universe be eternal?
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@eniolw ·
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's answered in the documentary too. You should watch it. There are several ways to approach it.

Given that there will be an infinite number of present times, then it is logically conceivable that an infinite amount of time has elapsed for each one of them. The limit of the past present time doesn't have to be the present time that you want to pick up, because that would be confusing and switching the necessary condition with the sufficient condition. I know, it gets confusing, that's how the logic works. This is only by resorting to Logic and Philosophy, not Physics. You can watch the documentary for more information.
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@vikisecrets ·
good point, at least we have good evidence of the Big Bang, but we have no idea what happened before the Big Bang and why it happened in the first place, but those questions are meta-physical, pure speculation, non-scientific in the sense that we cannot test theories that are outside of our universe.
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@eniolw ·
I agree, but it's still mathematically consistent. Many cosmologists regard the Big Bang as an open boundary, so there are both models of the universe with a beginning and models of eternal universes. Also, as a general principle, metaphysics should conform to physics, so it's not unscientific necessarily. Anyway, the main point was that actual infinities might exist and it's a widely accepted view among the experts in the relevant fields. Thanks for bringing up this topic.
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@florakese ·
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What I would like to know is that the universe expands infinitely.
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@jfang003 ·
$0.12
I tend to think that it isn't infinite but I do think it's large enough for most people to think that is is infinite. We are just a small part of the universe.
👍  
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@mein-senf-dazu ·
$0.12
Unendlich könnte für mich nur sein, wenn man an einem Ende ankommt, kommt man am anderen Ende wieder rein, also wie eine schleife. Sonst wäre für mich unendlich unmöglich, wenns unendlich wäre würde es sich ja auch nicht ausdehnen.

!LOL
👍  
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@lolzbot ·
<div class='pull-right'><center><img src="https://lolztoken.com/lolz.png"><br><a href="https://lolztoken.com">lolztoken.com</a></p><br><br><br><br></center></div><p><center><strong>Why did the coffee go to the police?<br>Because it was mugged.</strong><br><sub>Credit: <a href="https://peakd.com/@reddit">reddit</a></sub><br>@vikisecrets, I sent you an <a href="https://lolztoken.com">$LOLZ</a> on behalf of mein-senf-dazu<br><br>(1/8)<br>NEW:  <a href='https://peakd.com/@lolz.burner/posts'>Join LOLZ's Daily Earn and Burn Contest and win $LOLZ</a></center></p>
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@momins ·
$0.13
Actually everything has a limit, but the universe is huge. But there is an end. The stars are so far away that the sky appears black
👍  
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@olaf.gui ·
$0.11
I love theories about the universe. Very interesting stuff that I hope to get to know much more!
👍  
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@orionvk ·
$0.11
Gute Widerlegung! 👍
👍  
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@pizzabot · (edited)
RE: Why the universe is most likely not infinite – Part 5: Popular argument against infinity
<center>PIZZA!


$PIZZA slices delivered:
@thehockeyfan-at<sub>(1/5)</sub> tipped @vikisecrets 
bitandi tipped vikisecrets 


</center>
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@qwr ·
These are some information that we never searched about that.
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@rafzat ·
$0.12
I’m just beginning to think of why the sky is not always white even though we usually have so many stars in the sky 
👍  
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@stemsocial ·
re-vikisecrets-why-the-universe-is-most-likely-not-infinite-part-5-popular-argument-against-infinity-20240225t165534056z
<div class='text-justify'> <div class='pull-left'>
 <img src='https://stem.openhive.network/images/stemsocialsupport7.png'> </div>

Thanks for your contribution to the <a href='/trending/hive-196387'>STEMsocial community</a>. Feel free to join us on <a href='https://discord.gg/9c7pKVD'>discord</a> to get to know the rest of us!

Please consider delegating to the @stemsocial account (85% of the curation rewards are returned).

You may also include @stemsocial as a beneficiary of the rewards of this post to get a stronger support.&nbsp;<br />&nbsp;<br />
</div>
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@thebighigg ·
$0.12
Too soon to call... It may be infinite but as finite creatures we are unable to comprehend it at our point of evolution. The universe seems to be expanding faster and faster, so there is much yet to be understood. 
!DHEDGE
👍  
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@thehockeyfan-at ·
$0.12
!PIZZA
👍  
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@urrirru · (edited)
$0.12
I think that our Universe is one of many multiverses (with different constants). Our Universe is not infinite. Matter in general originated and expands in a limited volume. The number of atoms in our Universe is finite.
👍  ,
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@valggav ·
$0.15
!LUV 
👍  ,
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@luvshares ·
<center><p>vikisecrets, valggav sent you LUV. 🙂 <sub>(1/1)</sub> <a href="https://crrdlx.on.fleek.co" target="_blank">tools</a> | <a href="https://tribaldex.com/trade/LUV" target="_blank">trade</a> | <a href="https://hiveconnect.on.fleek.co/" target="_blank">connect</a> | <a href="https://ichthys.netlify.app" target="_blank">daily</a></p>
<p>Made with <a href="https://hive.blog/@luvshares">LUV</a> by <a href="https://hive.blog/@crrdlx/about">crrdlx</a>.</p></center>
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@vieira · (edited)
$0.13
If, as some argue, the universe is expanding, then it could not be infinite. I think.

Does infinity even exists? Is there anything truly infinite?
👍  ,
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@erh.germany ·
> Does infinity even exist?

A very good question. I think, this is nothing we can answer. We have a mental concept of infinity but nothing else. I even think it is not relevant to know if it exists. Can you think of a relevant theme?
👍  
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@vieira · (edited)
$0.08
No, yes, perhaps it could be relevant in some subjects, due to the fact that the assumption of infinity has repercussions in other areas, such as the nature of the universe in which we live. There are things that don't seem practical at all, but then end up changing the way we see the world, and thus, changing us.

There are things that don't seem relevant, but then help us a lot in indirect ways.

>Can you think of a relevant theme?

That depends on what you consider relevant. Maybe you can help me here and think of one.

Cheers!
👍  
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