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Is Hive really decentralized? by whack.science

View this thread on: hive.blog |  peakd.com |  ecency.com
hive-173737 · @whack.science · (edited)
$2.37
Is Hive really decentralized? 
Heyooo!

Once again, I am asking questions to know more about the blockchain and to get some whales, witnesses and experienced users to tell us more details to fill our knowledge a bit more.

I would like to see @theycallmedan and others who are active on Twitter promoting Hive as a decentralized community to answer a few Qs.

![IMG_20200516_021718_642.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/whack.science/OA1AEv3Y-IMG_20200516_021718_642.jpg)



When I was on Steem, I was told it is decentralized but being there 2 years I realized some people don't really know what decentralized means.

Now that I am on Hive, I really don't want to make same mistakes again and lure some investors here (on Steem, ATT) selling him the story that we are decentralized just to get a lecture a few days later from him how we are not decentralized. And he was right in the end.

*Now, let me ask you...*

**Are we trully decentralized? Is there a thing as semi-decentralized or you are either centralized or decentralized?**

Where is Hive in this picture? What does 'decentralized' even mean? 

Please don't lie to me as others did in the past as I am not willing to be a jerk again. I got and want to talk to a few investors but this time, I want to come prepared if they have questions.


Peace yo, 

Mr. Spacely
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vote details (138)
@culgin · 
I think if you want to be on the safe side and not want to paint the wrong picture, it should be described as semi-decentralized. Honestly, none of the cryptocurrencies are fully decentralized yet. Not even Bitcoin
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@whack.science · 
Yes, I want that. But, can something be semi-decentralized? 

I cannot figure out that concept, if we're gonna be serious talking about this.
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@culgin · 
Hi, here is a good reference on the various degree of decentralization.
https://hackernoon.com/how-decentralized-is-defi-a-framework-for-classifying-lending-protocols-90981f2c007f
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@gradeon · 
Hive isn't fully decentralized until the blockchain can run all by itself without input from Hive llc.
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@whack.science · 
What input Hive llc have? Who are they/one person?
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@joshman · (edited)
$0.03
Ask yourself this, what is centralized?  What would perfect decentralization look like?  Everybody starts out with the same stake?  How would that work?

There is absolutely nothing stopping stopping someone from buying stake on the open market and using that to influence the ecosystem.  This is actually what @theycallmedan did.  You can contrast him with whales who mined steem during the proof-of-work phase. Decentralization is what kept Justin Sun at bay until the fork happened.  Some of us chose to follow this fork.  Is the level of decentralization ideal here?  No, of course not.  The stake distribution needs to improve, and it has been.  The aggregate stake of whales has been shrinking in relation to the rest of the community over time.  You want that to accelerate, earn more, buy more, recruit more, and pool influence.  There is no authority to appeal to.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@joe.public · 
In your opinion, would I be mistaken in believing that:
Hive is more centralized than Steem ever was.

Dan from Blocktrades has changed the rules so that one third plus 1 can now change the rules on Hive.

The original Steemit.inc account was plundered and is now under the control of Blocktrades Dan.
Despite the fact that every Steem token has a mirror Hive token many many of those private account holders, Hive holdings, were plundered by Blocktrades Dan, and now are being handed out to those who supported the theft of those private account holders funds.    

You also said:

>Decentralization is what kept Justin Sun at bay until the fork happened
 
This is just untrue. Justin Sun made no move at all, until after Blocktrades Dan, convinced a group of people to plunder the Steemit inc holding.
First freezing the Steemit.inc accounts without provocation.  
Then, refusing to negotiate a path forward until the details of the new platform were established. 
This was clearly a set up from the original freezing of the Steemit inc accounts.

I am shocked that the basic facts are not being discussed honestly on social media.
👍  
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@joshman · (edited)
How can you plunder something that does not yet exist?

If someone were to create a fork of steem, who else could it have been?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@whack.science · (edited)
I would like to see answers to your questions here. I cannot answer it because I lack knowledge about this topic. 

Surely, someone will have balls to reply to you :)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@whack.science · 
Why u asking me? I dunno haha I really don't, that's why I asked what does decentralization means. Is it tied to voting and making major decisions in a decentralized way, is it just the fact that there is no central authority even tho' that couls be the group of witnesses... What is it? XD
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@mattsanthonyit · 
@tipu curate
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@whack.science · 
Tnx
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@yintercept ·
$0.03
In theory all publicly traded corporations have a decentralized form of governance. There are some employee owned firms. Again, the theory is that these firms are decentralized.

One could claim that governments are decentralized by nature because, in theory, the state is owned by the people.

It seems to me that the people who claim THE BLOCKCHAIN is decentralized because it does not have a recognized owner. One finds that the distribution of wealth on THE BLOCKCHAIN is more concentrated in systems with well distributed ownership.
👍  ,
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@whack.science · 
So, in theory, we are not special if we are decentralized :))
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@yintercept · 
Hive is pursuing some different ideas.

Hive seems to be pursuing the idea that ownership is the cause of the excessive centralization of the day. It appears that HIVE holds that if we could find an equitable way to end ownership we will have greater liberty.

This idea is as old as the hills.

But Hive is thrown into multiple paradoxes. The servers that deliver the content must be owned or rented by the witnesses. Plagiarized content is generally better than the stuff typed out by hand; so we have to have @cheetah checking for copy and pasted text. The platform still depends on artifacts of the ownership based economy.

If one looks at HIVE from a linguistic or topological standpoint, one sees that THE blockchain is by nature centralized.

The definitive article "THE" indicates one. 

There is one big pool of crypto-currency at the center of HIVE and we are all buzzing around this central good.

HIVE has a special definition of "decentralized" and is simply exploring that idea. Personally, I think that decentralized ownership is the best base for an economy.
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