create account

RE: An Opponent of the Exponent: Making the Case for Vshare Linearity by kenny-crane

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com

Viewing a response to: @sigmajin/an-opponent-of-the-exponent-making-the-case-for-vshare-linearity

· @kenny-crane · (edited)
Interesting post!

I remember 2 other aspects from the White Paper.  There IS a lottery effect from the current n^2 voting power formula, and it was a desired effect according to the White Paper.  If you get a large payout once in a while, at an interval that you can't predict, then that plays on certain human psychology which is also at play when we gamble.

The second thing was the Sybil issue of people making multiple accounts.  It is less profitable to spread your available steem power among multiple accounts than it is to concentrate it in one account, with n^2 voting.

How about a more moderate change rather than just going linear, which is in effect n^1 voting... 
### why not try an exponent less than 2 and greater than 1 for a while and see what the affect is.  In fact, the exponent's value could be something the witnesses vote on, much like they currently vote on the SBD interest rate.

I would love to see what happens if we go to, say, n^1.5 voting.  I think that would be a good experiment without being a drastic change.  And then the witnesses could evaluate and change the exponent further, if they feel it needs to be changed, just like they change the SBD interest rate.
👍  , , ,
properties (23)
authorkenny-crane
permlinkre-sigmajin-an-opponent-of-the-exponent-making-the-case-for-vshare-linearity-20170215t202352075z
categorycuration
json_metadata{"tags":["curation"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-02-15 20:23:45
last_update2017-02-15 20:26:51
depth1
children8
last_payout2017-03-19 06:26:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,200
author_reputation241,584,745,341,486
root_title"An Opponent of the Exponent: Making the Case for Vshare Linearity"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id2,516,515
net_rshares45,253,980,994
author_curate_reward""
vote details (4)
@clayop ·
First of all, technically, integer is preferred (1, 2 or 3 for instance). Secondly, Sybil issue is not relevant because there is no difference between one big vote from an account or aggregated small votes from multiple accounts.
As @sigmajin well pointed out, the basic assumption of n^2 is equally distributed stakes, however this is not the case in the current Steem.
The only issue with linear system is self-voting. Regarding this, please see my comment above. IMO, self-voting is not a serious issue in the linear system.
👍  
properties (23)
authorclayop
permlinkre-kenny-crane-re-sigmajin-an-opponent-of-the-exponent-making-the-case-for-vshare-linearity-20170215t203908490z
categorycuration
json_metadata{"tags":["curation"],"users":["sigmajin"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-02-15 20:39:09
last_update2017-02-15 20:39:09
depth2
children0
last_payout2017-03-19 06:26:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length527
author_reputation270,845,899,918,618
root_title"An Opponent of the Exponent: Making the Case for Vshare Linearity"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id2,516,650
net_rshares109,861,646,723
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@sigmajin ·
$5.45
>The second thing was the Sybil issue of people making multiple accounts. It is less profitable to spread your available steem power among multiple accounts than it is to concentrate it in one account, with n^2 voting.

No its not.  Under the current system, if you have 100 accounts with 10SP each, its exactly the same as having one account with 1000SP.  You gain no advantage and suffer no detriment.  

>I remember 2 other aspects from the White Paper. There IS a lottery effect from the current n^2 voting power formula, and it was a desired effect according to the White Paper. If you get a large payout once in a while, at an interval that you can't predict, then that plays on certain huann psychology which is also at play when we gamble.

I realize that, to a certain extent, i am trying to have my cake and eat it too by quoting the whitepaper in my post, then completely disagreeing with another aspect of it.

But i do and always have thought the lottery effect was a stupid idea (especially in the current system where the same people always win the lottery, but stupid generally.)  I think youll get many more interested engaged people by making a system where everyone gets something that approaches a fair share based on the value of their contributions.
👍  , ,
properties (23)
authorsigmajin
permlinkre-kenny-crane-re-sigmajin-an-opponent-of-the-exponent-making-the-case-for-vshare-linearity-20170215t202916096z
categorycuration
json_metadata{"tags":["curation"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-02-15 20:29:12
last_update2017-02-15 20:29:12
depth2
children5
last_payout2017-03-19 06:26:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value4.101 HBD
curator_payout_value1.349 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,271
author_reputation35,847,511,233,614
root_title"An Opponent of the Exponent: Making the Case for Vshare Linearity"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id2,516,563
net_rshares26,801,851,800,538
author_curate_reward""
vote details (3)
@clayop ·
Many perceive the current lottery system as "being chosen by whales"
👍  
properties (23)
authorclayop
permlinkre-sigmajin-re-kenny-crane-re-sigmajin-an-opponent-of-the-exponent-making-the-case-for-vshare-linearity-20170215t205313673z
categorycuration
json_metadata{"tags":["curation"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-02-15 20:53:15
last_update2017-02-15 20:53:15
depth3
children0
last_payout2017-03-19 06:26:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length68
author_reputation270,845,899,918,618
root_title"An Opponent of the Exponent: Making the Case for Vshare Linearity"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id2,516,757
net_rshares33,515,532,362
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@kenny-crane ·
I thought that if a person had one account with 200 voting power, it would count for 4 times the effect of what would be the case if they controlled 2 accounts each with 100 voting power.

We give the witnesses the power to change things like the SBD interest rate and whether or not to hard fork; why not let them decide on the exponent of voting power, bounded in a range of 1 to 2?  2 would be no change from the current system.  1 would be linear.  Let's go this way and see what happens.
👍  ,
properties (23)
authorkenny-crane
permlinkre-sigmajin-re-kenny-crane-re-sigmajin-an-opponent-of-the-exponent-making-the-case-for-vshare-linearity-20170215t204740033z
categorycuration
json_metadata{"tags":["curation"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-02-15 20:47:33
last_update2017-02-15 20:47:33
depth3
children3
last_payout2017-03-19 06:26:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length492
author_reputation241,584,745,341,486
root_title"An Opponent of the Exponent: Making the Case for Vshare Linearity"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id2,516,716
net_rshares46,790,963,558
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@sigmajin · (edited)
$0.14
one account with 200 voting power would have 4x the power of 1 account with 100 voting power.  But the two accounts with 100 voting power, even though they are only 1/4 as strong as the 200 voting power account alone, when they combine their vote, they are just as strong as he is.

Now, if the 200VP guy used his account like 2 100VP accounts, he would lose out.  FOr example, if he cast 50% votes on twice as many things.  And if the 2 100VP guys vote for different things, then their strength is only half as much as the 200VP guy.

If that makes sense
👍  , ,
properties (23)
authorsigmajin
permlinkre-kenny-crane-re-sigmajin-re-kenny-crane-re-sigmajin-an-opponent-of-the-exponent-making-the-case-for-vshare-linearity-20170215t205409529z
categorycuration
json_metadata{"tags":["curation"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-02-15 20:54:06
last_update2017-02-15 20:54:51
depth4
children2
last_payout2017-03-19 06:26:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.108 HBD
curator_payout_value0.033 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length555
author_reputation35,847,511,233,614
root_title"An Opponent of the Exponent: Making the Case for Vshare Linearity"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id2,516,762
net_rshares3,057,249,638,714
author_curate_reward""
vote details (3)
@sigmajin · (edited)
>In fact, the exponent's value could be something the witnesses vote on, much like they currently vote on the SBD interest rate.

this is a super neat idea (though id have to think about it some before i came to any conclusions)
👍  ,
properties (23)
authorsigmajin
permlinkre-kenny-crane-re-sigmajin-an-opponent-of-the-exponent-making-the-case-for-vshare-linearity-20170215t204908163z
categorycuration
json_metadata{"tags":["curation"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-02-15 20:49:03
last_update2017-02-15 20:49:42
depth2
children0
last_payout2017-03-19 06:26:39
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length228
author_reputation35,847,511,233,614
root_title"An Opponent of the Exponent: Making the Case for Vshare Linearity"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id2,516,729
net_rshares143,569,642,769
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)