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RE: Half-Brained Thoughts by tarazkp

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· @tarazkp ·
$0.16
>Empathy - the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. 

I believe that this is an issue, because people feel they understand and share the same feelings, without actually knowing it. It is a massive assumption. 

>Maybe you need empathy to feel compassion?

I don't believe so. Compassion doesn't require anything shared. You can have compassion for the suffering of an animal, but you cannot understand and share the feelings of an animal.

I think my definitions are the same, it is just that people don't understand the definitions, because they make the assumption that their feelings are correct. For instance, it is unlikely you can understand and share the feelings of someone who is in conditions that are very different to you. For instance, a poor black person in a slum in Johannesburg. So you can't have empathy, but you could still have compassion for them. Empathy requires familiarity, compassion does not.
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@aussieninja · (edited)
$0.17
But look at the definition though -  "*the ability to understand and share the feelings of another*" - *it's not the ability to replicate the exact feeling of another* - it's the ability to understand.

I can have empathy for a person completely different to me, I do have empathy for people different to me. I can't know the exact feeling of a poor black person in a slum, but I can understand their general feeling of insecurity, fear, hunger, etc because I've felt variations of those myself.  

It doesn't need to be the exact same... empathy is just the ability to understand and share. 

I can understand an animal being hungry (empathy), and compassionately feed it (compassion). 

Honestly, I think without empathy, the world would be an empty place. I don't think we could feel joy, excitement or sadness while watching a movie or listening to music or reading a book.

The definition of empathy doesn't say anything about it requiring familiarity.

I guess I don't really understand why you care about this so much... you've written about it at least 4 times that I remember, why do you care if people feel empathy and/or compassion?  Surely it's better than people not feeling or doing anything right? 

Even if you could convince me that compassion is better than empathy, it's not like I could turn it off.  You either feel it or you don't. You can't fake it.
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@tarazkp ·
$0.16
>the ability to understand and share the feelings of another

You can have feelings, you can think you understand and share, but this doesn't mean you do understand and share. It is a massive assumption to think that you understand the feelings of another. What are you basing your understanding on? It is your own opinion, right? You can't actually know if you understand at all. People think differently, act differently, process differently, feel differently to you. It is just your belief that you understand them, in the same way that people think they understand the feelings of their dogs, cats, or a whale swimming in the depth of the ocean. 

Where is the limit at which point you recognize that your feelings of empathy are unlikely correct?

>It doesn't need to be the exact same... empathy is just the ability to understand and share.

How accurate does the understanding need to be? I understand basic math, will you fly to space on a rocket I build in my backyard? What validation does the understanding go through - is it verified?

Compassion requires no understanding of the target at all, just the recognition of suffering and the willingness to help. 

>Honestly, I think without empathy, the world would be an empty place. I don't think we could feel joy, excitement or sadness while watching a movie or listening to music or reading a book.

Maybe not - but that is entertainment, right? Do we need empathy to build a better healthcare system, or economy? Do we need it to stop child labor or sexual abuse? Not really.

>The definition of empathy doesn't say anything about it requiring familiarity.

Yes it does. The understanding implies it. You can't understand something that you are not familiar with, can you?

>why do you care if people feel empathy and/or compassion?

Because, this article is about clarity of thought, not empathy and compassion. Clarity of thought is important to me, because I struggle with it. Because of the belief of understanding experienced through empathy, clarity of thought might not be there and instead, emotions are reacting. A lot of empathetic people do a lot of harm to others when they are trying to help. They think they understand and have the intention to make things better, but are too blinded by their beliefs to recognize that they are making them worse. 

>Surely it's better than people not feeling or doing anything right?

What is right?

Feeling right and doing right are two different states, aren't they? The Nazis probably felt and believed they were doing right. So does the KKK. 

"Fight for what you believe in" ?

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@aussieninja ·
$0.17
I think you're overthinking it.

I don't need to feel the exact, identical feelings that you're feeling to be empathetic. I don't even have to feel those feelings myself.

It's just understanding.  If you feel sad - I can empathetically understand that you feel sad without feeling sad myself.  

It may influence my actions, I may ask you questions, or take you out for a drink, or be more patient with you than normal... or it may not, feeling empathy for someone/something doesn't require an action.  It's just the ability to understand and share... not the exact feelings of course, just the understanding that the person is feeling something.

It could affect me, I might also feel sad because you feel sad, or because you explained the situation and now I feel sad about that - in which case my empathy allows me share what you're feeling.  Again, not exactly, but generally.

We can share a pizza, we don't eat the exact same slices to do so... we don't have an identical experience but we still have a shared experience. 


If my empathy is incorrect, I understand that you're sad, but you're actually furious - then either you communicate more and I adjust my understanding... or you don't and I've misread the situation.  I'm sure it happens all the time. The clarity is a separate component - I either understood or I misunderstood your feelings - maybe the outcome is the same because I adjust my behavior in a helpful way anyway - or maybe I don't and I make it worse.

People with no empathy still might say or do the right things - or the wrong things - anyway, they might see a frown on your face and give you space - without understanding the emotions you're feeling. 

I do think you're confusing 'empathy' with 'empathetic reactions'. Empathy may cause an action or reaction, or it might not, it's really up to the person and the situation. Sure, empathetic people might make a situation worse, but it's probably more likely they make so many situations better, because they are aware that the other person is having a moment.  I would absolutely, no doubt, 100% prefer to be around people with empathy than without... even if it means sometimes people might make a situation worse. 

> A lot of empathetic people do a lot of harm to others when they are trying to help. They think they understand and have the intention to make things better, but are too blinded by their beliefs to recognize that they are making them worse.

You've brought this up a couple of times... and I do actually wonder if you're taking a very specific scenario that you've witnesses and are generalizing it out to all scenarios?


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@tarazkp ·
$0.15
The edit came after I replied, so will comment again :D

>Even if you could convince me that compassion is better than empathy, it's not like I could turn it off. 

No, but you can manage it. Feelings are feelings, they come and go like clouds, but it doesn't mean they are valid or appropriate for the situations. Feeling sad or depressed doesn't mean that nothing else can be done but wallow. Feeling happy doesn't mean one can't help another in pain. But, if we don't learn how to manage our emotions, we become victims of them, reactive to them, regardless of the damage it causes ourselves and others. Just because sometimes I feel like punching a wall, it doesn't mean I do it. 

>You either feel it or you don't. You can't fake it.

No - but you can fake showing it, right? It is possible to feel one way, and act another. 
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@aussieninja · (edited)
$0.17
Okay, so these are the definitions I provided above from Google:

Compassion - sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

Empathy - the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. 

I don't honestly think I have to feel sad to be empathetic to the sadness you feel... so I looked it up and found this:


![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/aussieninja/23t8CoYsD4gbJBgvW8FYu6iMWrzd3W7qws9HDYH9BddNVXe1K54tm7ZXY3po2QfvmUSoq.png)

[Source](https://www.verywellmind.com/cognitive-and-emotional-empathy-4582389#:~:text=Other%20Types%20of%20Empathy,without%20being%20emotionally%20stimulated%20yourself.)

I think when you talk about Empathy, you're talking about Emotional Empathy... where I think I've been encompassing both Cognitive Empathy and Emotional Empathy in my definition depending on the scenario.

I do think it is important to separate and distinguish the difference between empathy and the actions that can result from empathy.

I can feel empathy towards a person or animal without any action.  The action is separate from the feeling.

Yes, people could take an incorrect action that results in harm as a result of empathy... but that's just one outcome:

1.) People can feel empathy and do nothing.
2.) People can feel empathy and do something good.
3.) People can feel empathy and do something bad.
4.) People can feel no empathy and do nothing.
5.) People can feel no empathy and do something good.
6.) People can feel no empathy and do something bad.

To me it seems you're hyper focused on 3... and saying that empathy is bad because of 3, but that ignores 1 and 2 (and 4, 5 and 6). 

I'm honestly not sure if you can fake empathy, as per the definition of the word.  If you're sad, I can fake being sad to try and make you feel like you're not alone, but that's not empathy.  I think by the definition you can't fake it. Like you can't fake sincerity. You're either sincere or you're insincere regardless of your behavior or actions. 
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