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RE: Ways to Help HIVE Moon by omitaylor

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com

Viewing a response to: @steevc/re-sanjeevm-qrx3wq

· @omitaylor ·
$0.18
@peakd  @sanjeevm  @steevc I'm pre-fork and coming from steemit and I know @pfunk told me about a big effort to fight spammers here so it didn't turn out like Steem. I do understand things being well intentioned but I believe that these efforts may be one reason why Hive isn't retaining users. And I get that the opposite approach is almost scarily dangerous because of spammers.

I just saw a silent comment that said farming detected. I'm assuming that means that because I promoted the post (and paid for it) that it looked like I bought votes. This is strange because why allow said services in the platform to pay for promotion at all? 

My last few posts were about this. I would like to (in a happy world) onboard about 1000 users to start from another platform by adding my reflink to my next NFT distribution. I was thinking of building a community here. But I can't even get a hang of this myself. I've been massively downvoted TWICE this week out of 5 posts, murdered. None are abusive at all (unless you don't like my personal opinion. lol!)

Strongly feel that this is going to scare away new users. Is there not a whitelist program or verification program? Should not downvotes be manually audited? 

I put 60+ minutes into this post and a lot of real thought. :( 

Can't we make hive friendly?
πŸ‘  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@jarvie ·
I understand what you're saying but you got 20 cents of downvotes... and $10 of upvotes is it really worth all this? And a 4hive tip. 

To anyone that is worried about downvotes I'd say turn off votes and focus on tips. Motivate people to tip on your stuff. Voting is a process where over a million accounts have full rights to vote UP and DOWN and they have 7 days to do it. So out of million+ accounts to expect no downvotes is maybe a very anxiety packed mindset to be in. On the other side... no one can "down tip" or "un tip" you. 
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@keys-defender ·
Screenshotting this and adding it to my post...
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@omitaylor ·
$0.03
@jarvie @keys-defender Do remember, I come from pre-fork where there was no tips and I don't "know" of all of the upgrades to Hive since 2018. Also, most new people just joining will not know about the tips feature, nor of the spam/plagiarism problem. Lastly, "get paid when people like your stuff" is what's advertised to the public." So it can be a bit misleading. 

Why do I care? Because I want to bring users to Hive and I want them to have a great experience coming in the door. Because the people I will invite are not just "anybody." They are high net worth English Speaking first world users who will HODL.

And I'm not squeezing my own boobs here when I say I'm someone I trust to onboard people. So I'm certainly not going to bring people to a toxic environment while other social blockchains exist and function without the politics i.e. Twetch, Bitclout, Minds, SoMee, etc.

Believe me, my concerns are not in vain. They are 100% out of best interest to:
* Fix The Peg
* Improve the Price of HIVE
* Onboard better people here than Steem
* Create Communities, Tokens, NFTS
And more.

Many of the things I wanted to do on Steem that I could not because my keys were gone and because the tech wasn't ready for me. Literally, @crimsonclad  just finished developing the steem tipper for twitter. And I gave away hundreds in Steem.

I would like to add that upvotes are important because:
* If we PAY our Steem (15 per post) to promote then are downvoted, we effectively have been demonetized.
* If that demonetization has put us on MUTE, then we are invisible, which is indeed a form of Passive aggressive silencing- especially since it is the very intention to do so.
* These encourage new people who's post may only generate a few cents.
* We can be tipped anywhere wallet to wallet, without being on a platform.

Please note, I am FOR the downvote feature when it is used responsibly, and MANUALLY, to downvote LEGITIMATE:
* Plagiarism
* Spam
* $500 posts of a Hampster

Automation of downvotes could destroy more than mindset:
* Posts set to null don't get nulled
* Posts set to dev don't get funded
* Posts sent to the peg stabilizer don't pay out
* Posts sent to new users being onboarded via beneficiary don't work
* Destroy the reputation of those following the trail in the minds of the users, some of which are witnesses who will not get votes

Just food for thought. I'm not an enemy. I'm probably one of your best allies, you just don't know it yet. <3 






πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@jarvie ·
Well i don't mind helping you catch up... happy to jump on a voice chat at some point and answer lots more questions. Maybe it's something that can help lots more people if it was recorded and available for people.

> "get paid when people like your stuff" is what's advertised to the public." 
Certainly something we have long since moved away from specially on Peakd.com which is the most used interface for Hive.

Also because most people do use PeakD.com they do end up knowing about TIPS but future updates will focus even more on tips.

Paying for votes is a decision that most of the community has decided is not appropriate and the community is willing to downvote those sorts of actions. 

In it's place there is the ability to pay to promote your posts on peakd.com ... it does end up burning about half the tokens so that it benefits all token holders.

Automation of downvotes is not something I can or want to defend it seems way too problematic. 

I infrequently downvote and I tip more than most people so i'm not really the best person to ask about downvotes. 

Also reputation is something that is loosing importance peakd will likely be the first to move it out of a position of importance and I know many are considering doing the same for hive.blog. Reputation won't go away but it just won't be shown in many places. 

Also i know that future updates to peakd.com (again the most used interface for hive blogging) will put more emphasis on interactions like commenting and tipping. A heavy emphasis on voting has never led to sustainable success it's well documented. It's a fun perk but it's very very limited ... it has a set amount of hive tokens coming in each day and so it's a very limited resource and the more users means the more people competing for that limited resource. Interactions, Views, Tips are all UNLIMTED resources and so those people you are bringing in don't have to compete they simply can increase those things and they should lead to economic impact. Right now views doesn't directly lead to economic impact... BUT they will later this year. 
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@misterengagement ·
<center>  Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved <code>ENGAGE</code> tokens.</center>
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@steevc ·
It looks like you were temporarily on the HiveWatchers list, but have been taken off now. The trail with hive-defender seems to have been a mistake. Shit happens, but I hope it is being resolved. Hivewatcher are approachable on their Discord, but it can get busy there as there really is still a lot of abuse. Some of us do what we can to deal with it to make Hive a good place.

What is allowed and what is considered good for Hive may not be the same. I have not looked into promoting posts on peakd and have no idea what benefit it gives.

Most people on Hive are friendly, but there is the freedom to be a troll that some will exploit. We do not have to conform to any whitelists, but I think the witnesses and others want to keep abuse at bay as much as possible.

You can [verify yourself](https://hivewatchers.com/verifications/new) to Hivewatchers to avoid some issues. My own downvotes are all manual as they have impact.

I am hoping Hive can be better than Steem (which is getting worse from what I see), but it is up to us. It is technically complicated, but with tools like Keychain it gets easier. Bringing in 1000 people would make a massive difference and I hope they can be made welcome.

I cooperate with others on fighting abuse, but I act as an individual.

!ENGAGE 25
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@omitaylor ·
$0.09
Thanks for the suggestion. I will get on that verify process immediately. I do see having a community here superior. Neither Communities nor SMTs were ready when last I was on Steem. So I'm SO EXCITED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL HERE. And see what Leo did with it, I am literally STOKED. But like... not if every other post gets demonetized by downvote bots. Not that I mind so much, but I know my userbase would feel like shit if I brought them into an uptight, overly judgmental or toxic environment. Many don't join medium and stay on Facebook simply because users there will flat out comment that your article sucks! LOL! (I know, I'm a writer for 3 publications on Medium too.)

I have big dreams that's all. I don't want special treatment. Just the ability to participate. 

Back on Steem I never liked when folks promoted posts all the way up $500 and I would never do that here, but I definitely think it's valuable if I'm spending an hour on a post that I can boost itβ€” after fees and the WAIT for rewards, they usually half. And then converting SBD to LEO or HIVE or Tips will run it down, etc. It's working for pennies, most of which I keep or put back into the system. I'm very much about staking- but I like to maximize my efforts but not be wasteful.

Anyhow, thank you for your help and advice.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@steevc ·
People have to realise that with rewards at stake there will be abuse, but people should not cry over every tiny downvote. Some will choose to troll the system. What you have suffered this week is definitely not typical and seems to be an unintended effect of a script.

Buying votes is generally frown upon on Hive. There's a thing called Project Hope that was giving votes to their community if it got 50% of the post rewards, but the greater community did not like that and many were downvoted to remove the big vote.

Nobody is entitled to rewards here and they should be earned based on what the community thinks. That does not always happen as some big accounts automate their votes, but there are curation projects that use manual reviews.

There are no hard rules here, so you have to see what works for you without upsetting too many people.
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@steevc ·
Just seen the guy behind @keys-defender is going to apologise to those affected by this issue. Unforeseen events broke his script. At least some downvotes should get removed. This does not happen that often.
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@jarvie ·
They should stick to "defending keys"... they should not meddle in anything else create a different account and be specific about it if they want to do other things.
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@keys-defender · (edited)
<div class="pull-right">


![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/keys-defender/23uFwS9EK8Y6SakdwhotTBRUgkpM4dNkH6Wzq3japc5iefJkpGmxJ2CKWmTkwErPTQm7a.png)


</div>

- @jarvie I did a month ago (@hive-defender) and that's the account that triggered the trails.

- Please see my last [post](https://peakd.com/hive-139531/@keys-defender/why-am-i-being-downvoted-anti-farming-feature-abused-by-ctime) for more details

- (it's not "they", I'm the only maintainer of the project)
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@steevc ·
Well that is up to them. Those who follow a downvote trail are giving up some control. I do not follow any trails that are out of my control.
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