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RE: Steem 0.17 Change Proposal Introduction by ausbitbank

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Viewing a response to: @andu/re-steemitblog-steem-0-17-change-proposal-introduction-20170110t174753773z

· @ausbitbank ·
$0.09
Ideally, I would love indefinite payout potential.
 Perhaps 7 day initially, then 30 days periods indefinitely .. 

I think it would incentivize content creators more to have the possibility for recurring income for those rare gem's of articles years into the future - especially considering future steemians signing up and finding classic posts from long before they joined..
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vote details (6)
@andu ·
$0.09
KISS it, straight with indefinite and 24h cycle :):) That way it's simple for everyone and since 24h might be considered universally acceptable nobody considers it a downside as with the other timeframes.

It's true that I sometimes run into articles that are very valuable and were written a few months ago. We have writers around posting their stories. They can't be denied an effort reward after 30 days I think.
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vote details (6)
@dantheman ·
$0.29
Long term rewards can be done via tips.  Any individual vote has almost no ability to pay someone unless it works with many other users.  This means that with the exception of a few whales, the long-term payouts would only apply to content that goes viral on steemit after more than a week delay.  Possible, but unlikely.
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vote details (23)
@liondani · (edited)
Then after the one week payment, let unlimited 30days payout cycles active...After mass adoption it would be very likely some gem-posts to attract several votes in couple of 30 days periods... Even not many votes would add up the rewards after months, years of the post existent.... After all the posts will be on the blockchain for eternity...


PS I guess it is vulnerable to abuse the reward pool, right?
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@smooth · (edited)
This is a good approach. I think the calls for long term payouts would greatly subside with an effective tipping system.

A blockchain feature that makes sense for tipping is a change purse (with a user-defined max balance) that can be used to receive and send tips with only the posting key. Or alternately some sort of rate-limited tipping ability from the regular balance with posting key.
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@snowflake ·
$0.08
>Long term rewards can be done via tips

We need tipping on steemit! 

https://steemit.com/steem/@snowflake/let-s-get-tipping-going-on-steemit
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vote details (2)
@beanz ·
$0.02
Advertising could be a better source of long term revenue.  Something for the future though, I don't think we're ready for it yet.
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vote details (4)
@creatr ·
$5.72
Hey, @ausbitbank, I have had very similar thoughts, but my thinking has progressed a little...

If the *reality* of blockchain durability matches the *promise,* then the mere long-term *availability* of a creator's content is a strong incentive to blog on Steemit. As good or better than ongoing payouts for old articles would be easier access to those articles by new readers. I think that's more of a UI issue.

In other words, the lasting value of my "old gems" would be to attract new readers to want to keep coming back.

I want *readers,* not bots. ;) People that actually *read* and *benefit* from my content, and I think that a loyal and appreciative following will benefit me as an author even more than residual/royalty income from older articles.
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vote details (8)
@dantheman ·
$0.11
It is important to not attempt to be all things.  Multiple payout periods force all content to be kept "active" in consensus nodes which impacts technical scalability. It also requires all content to be kept active for review purposes.

Each day you are paid in STEEM, your long-term income comes from appreciation of STEEM.   Employees don't go back to their employer asking to receive income from the work they did last year, last month, or even last week.  Each day you are paid for that days contribution.

When the platform grows then you receive the compounding return on investment that will far outpace any residual revenue you would get  from a post.
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vote details (17)
@andu · (edited)
$0.09
if the technical stability is greatly affected then balancing the two (stability and a more streamlined reward approach) , 7 days would make more sense then 24h.
Still, some categories of  users fall out of the employee range and fit into a more continual reward expectation: writers, musicians etc. and we might need to respond to their needs too.

On the downside, Trending posts algorithms need to be well thought and will bring their own downsides and benefits.

_Edited to remove the 30 days reference which is proposed to be removed._
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@arhag ·
$0.13
Don't all `comment_objects` need to exist in memory (at least with minimal data of author and permlink) anyway? The blockchain needs to check whether a post operation has a unique author/permlink so that it knows whether it is creating a new post/comment with a payout period, or just doing an edit.

So, we are talking about keeping maybe a couple more fields in `comment_objects` for validating nodes. And if you compare that to the amount of memory full nodes need to keep (whether the post is archived or not), that additional memory overhead is very small. 

Memory access patterns for validating nodes are more of a concern, but I doubt most old posts will continue to remain active. And isn't this one of the advantages the ChainBase upgrade provided? That the database can support a much larger amount of infrequently accessed memory (since they remain on disk rather than in R AM)?

Also, I supposed it doesn't have to be indefinite. But archiving a post/comment after just 1 week is really short. (By the way, does archiving a post/comment mean that no new child comments are allowed? Because otherwise you still have the limited attention problem since   new comments with active payouts can exist nested in the discussion thread of a months old post.)  So what about up to 52 1-week long payout periods (which are only activated after the first payout if there is a new vote), and then a year after the post/comment was created, no new payout periods can be started?
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vote details (2)
@dantheman ·
You can compress comment objects down to HASH( author + permlink ) and check for existence, potentially using a bloom filter to detect non-existence.  Memory access patterns can also be optimized. 

The reality is that a single vote normally results in 0 payout and incurs a cost both at the time it is voted and later when it is rejected for insufficient payout.

We know that 99.85% of all votes (by rshares) are cost within 7 days.  We also know that 99.5% of all votes (counted equally) are cast within 7 days.  Actual usage shows that old posts don't get votes.  In fact, we could get 99% of all votes within 3 days based upon actual data since HF 16.
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vote details (2)
@stellabelle ·
how will the 7 day payout scheme affect the daily trending page?
👍  
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vote details (1)
@teamsteem ·
Not sure but I think the 2 would be independent.
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@teamsteem ·
Thank you! I already feel way better now that I slept all day.
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