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RE: A case for eliminating curation rewards by remlaps

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Viewing a response to: @snowflake/re-remlaps-re-snowflake-a-case-for-eliminating-curation-rewards-20170305t073208300z

· @remlaps ·
$6.11
> Never said that. I said investors want passive investment and yeah curating is active investing, most investors have no time for that.

There's more than one way to invest in steem.  A passive investor can fund a business on the steem block chain like steemsports or busy.org or steemvoter.  They hire entrepreneurs to do the labor.  That's how markets work.  Can you name one other product or platform that became successful by taking choices away from customers and investors?

If you get rid of curation rewards, you may as well also get rid of steem power.  No one's going to tie their money up for 90 days with no reward for doing so.  The few investors who remain will leave their money in steem, so they can get out quickly whenever they want to.  Aside from curation rewards, every other benefit for steempower holders is also a benefit for steem holders.

> Curators ( 80-90% of which are bots) bring absolutely no value to the platform, authors do however.

Then why not eliminate voting completely?

> Are you saying that curation rewards do not incentivize this behavior?

No, I'm saying that if you can't get a basic and obvious fact like this right, the rest of your argument probably also hasn't been researched very carefully.  You just throw out your own beliefs as if they were fact, but you have no basis in data for the things you say.  That's a dangerous way to design a platform.
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@snowflake · (edited)
$0.04
>If you get rid of curation rewards, you may as well also get rid of steem power

That's the plan actually and many in the community agree with getting rid of steem power, including the guys at busy.org. It makes literally no sense to lock people in for 3 months.

> The few investors who remain will leave their money in steem, so they can get out quickly whenever they want to

Weak hands should be able to exit the system as quickly as possible. The thing that has done the most damage to steem so far is the lock time period. Transfer from weak to strong hands should have taken a week or 2 but because of the lock period it ended up taking over 6 months. The chart is not looking pretty.

>Then why not eliminate voting completely?

Voting is the whole point of steem, you buy more steem power to get more influence. How else are authors going to be rewarded if you eliminate voting? 

>No, I'm saying that if you can't get a basic and obvious fact like this right

What I said is not incorrect, many users vote at 1% myself included.
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@abit · (edited)
[Nesting]
>I believe that the current curation rewards system is doing a lot more harm than good.

I don't disagree. But I don't agree that the only solution is to get rid of curation reward entirely.

>If you know a system where curation doesn't involved robots and where people are actually voting for things that they like then I' ll revise my opinion.

1. bots are unavoidable, but we can lead them to do better things if the incentives are well designed
2. in regards to "people actually voting", linear curation reward distribution fits you needs.
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@craig-grant ·
the solution is to increase curation rewards to 50%
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@dennygalindo · (edited)
WE should change the formula first give it a few months then Revisit. The formula is the main problem not curation rewards. I think the new formula would help.
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@snowflake ·
$0.04
@abit  Like you said bots are not inherently bad. I would have no problem with bots if they were able to vote for what people like. Unfortunately the only way to know if someone actually liked something it's to read the content, something a bot can't do. Sure bots can screen content but they can't send the info to your brain yet.

I don't see how a more linear curation rewards curve would solve the issue I mentionned above..
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@abit ·
[Nesting]
>@abit Like you said bots are not inherently bad. I would have no problem with bots if they were able to vote for what people like. Unfortunately the only way to know if someone actually liked something it's to read the content, something a bot can't do. Sure bots can screen content but they can't send the info to your brain yet.
>
>I don't see how a more linear curation rewards curve would solve the issue I mentionned above..

If you want to get rid of bots entirely then it's unsolvable.

But with linear curation rewards distribution, bots will have effectively least (negative) effects on the trending list. For-profit bots will only vote for the contents which are liked by most % of people, and will only vote before the payout.
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@snowflake ·
I am in favor of linear curation rewards and also authors rewards. To me self voting is solved by downvoting not penalizing everyone's post.
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@cmp2020 · (edited)
>Voting is the whole point of steem, you buy more steem power to get more influence. 

But you want to get rid of steem power? You just contradicted yourself. If voting is why people buy Steem power, then why eliminate steem power?Because that eliminates voting which eliminates author rewards which eliminates the reason why steemit exists. Which makes investors bankrupt. Game over, your investment is broke.
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@snowflake · (edited)
$0.04
Removing steem power does not eliminate voting. You can have the vote weight based on how much steem you have in your wallet.
Steem power smart contract was done to prevent double voting but you can prevent double voting in another more elegant way ( the weight of the vote would include steem that was in the wallet for more than 7 days which is the voting period) This would prevent double voting and people wouldn't have to lock any funds.
Its been discussed in this thread https://steemit.com/steem/@furion/steem-as-a-digital-currency
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@remlaps ·
@snowflake: "Curators ( 80-90% of which are bots) bring absolutely no value to the platform, authors do however."

@snowflake: "Voting is the whole point of steem"

Which is it?  If voting "bring absolutely no value to the platform," then get rid of it, and curation rewards too.

If "voting is the whole point of steem," then incentivize it and keep or increase the curation rewards, and wait patiently while competition for rewards forces voters to get better and better, increasing content quality on the platform and demand for steem.

You can't have it both ways.  I happen to agree with your second version of the truth.
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@remlaps ·
Nesting limit. Replying to your post.

So in summation: You believe that voting (which is not curation) is, "the whole point of steem," but you don't think it deserves to be explicitly rewarded.  Instead, you believe that voters (who are not curators) should be conscripted into service for the authors and steem-holders to gain profits and ROIs?

Personally, I cannot subscribe to a philosophy that permits one class of stakeholders (authors) to behave parasitically towards another (voters), so it seems that we just have a fundamental disagreement of ideas.  I wish you a good evening.
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@snowflake ·
I didn't say voting I said " curators".  There is a nuance there.  Voters and curators are not the same thing.  Voters vote for the content that they like,  curators vote for the content that pay the most.
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@snowflake · (edited)
>So in summation: You believe that voting (which is not curation) is, "the whole point of steem," but you don't think it deserves to be explicitly rewarded. Instead, you believe that voters (who are not curators) should be conscripted into service for the authors and steem-holders to gain profits and ROIs?

I believe that the current curation rewards system is doing a lot more harm than good.
If you know a system where curation doesn't involved robots and where people are actually voting for things that they like then I' ll revise my opinion.

>Personally, I cannot subscribe to a philosophy that permits one class of stakeholders (authors) to behave parasitically towards another (voters), 

This is non sense, voters are also stakeholders.
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