The weakness of Hive-Engine tokens by achim03

View this thread on: hive.blog | peakd.com | ecency.com

tribes · @achim03 · Feb 16

$17.71

The weakness of Hive-Engine tokens

![The weakness of hive-engine tokens.jpg](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/achim03/242NunapRq39zJn4kYdzvnSW3igEpLu6ayPjjx7HK2Mf9q1iBuXx1gpdmLheByGtbqRk8.jpg)

For the past week, I've done some research in other blockchains and how they handle token creation. I put my focus mainly on Solana and how they handle the token creation process. I've found some interesting things and I realized that tokens on Hive Engine have a serious flaw.

## What is different?
At first sight the token creation is very similar on Hive Engine and Solana. You need to define a name, a symbol for the token, the maximum supply, the number of decimals and some meta data.

In both cases you need to pay some fees to create the token.

![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/achim03/23t8CfKjJCe8z3o5xHFTRqAva1jL7QvHJkVJc4BXC4d6VAKDGRMswQsboZHW4pfq1zsAz.png)
<i>source: hive-engine</i>

![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/achim03/23t8D6MstG9wsUwPvVzk4tsVjHEhuNVac5FNr9Mx8c6RY5erWazbqkurgXVUPtMonQcSg.png)
<i>[source](https://tools.smithii.io/token-creator/solana?_gl=1*spr0zc*_gcl_au*MjI0MTgyNzQ1LjE3MzgyNjc5NzY.*_ga*OTc2MzgxMDQ3LjE3MzgyNjc5NzY.*_ga_KPXX81T61V*MTczOTcwODc5Mi40LjEuMTczOTcwOTM5Ny4wLjAuMA..*_ga_TEN5G5GDTD*MTczOTcwODc5Mi40LjEuMTczOTcwOTM5Ny4wLjAuMA..)</i>

The big difference between the two alternatives is however what you can do on Solana and what you can't do on hive-engine. On Solana you have the option to revoke several authorities regarding token management. You can revoke the freeze authority, the mint authority and the update authority.

## What does it mean to revoke authorities?
This simply means that as a token creator you can give up the capacity to freeze, to mint the token or to change the data of your token. But why would you do these things?

Whereas you don't have any freezing capacity on Hive engine, as token creator you can mint new tokens and change the meta information of the token at any time. This is good for the token creator but not so good for the investor...

## Trust level for investors
Imagine you buy a token and you expect a certain supply. Now the creator decides to print 500'000 tokens because he needs some money for a new liquidity pool for example. This will dilute the supply of the token and have an impact on the price. Believe me, this happens over and over on hive-engine. For example, when diesel pools are created. The creator pairs the token with another token. Instead of buying the token, he simply mints it and puts it as liquidity in the pool. Often some rewards are added to the pool in the same token as well. The supply is inflated which will have an effect on the token price. You can see that for investors it is actually good when the mint authority is revoked and no new tokens can be created.

What about revoking the update ability? Well, it's maybe not as important as the mint ability but it can have an impact. Imagine you create a token and then you decide to change the white paper, the logo and stuff like that. This can be negative for the token. People don't find it anymore or they purchased something and get something different in the process. Again, as investor you would want to have this ability revoked.

> There was a proposal by Splinterlands where they minted all the tokens at once. So they revoked their mint capacity for SPS. This seems to be necessary to be able to get accepted by exchanges and get audited.

## Self managed tokens on Solana
When you take the mint ability and the update ability out of the picture, it means that such a token is totally autonomous. The token creator is simply another token holder and he can still do a lot of things like buying, selling or burning tokens but it's much fairer for token holders.

Trust is good but control through code is much better in my opinion. It would be great if it would be possible to revoke the mint capacity of tokens on hive. This would add a layer of security to token holders not to be diluted by newly minted tokens by the creator.

<hr>
With @ph1102, I'm running the @liotes project.

Please consider supporting our Witness nodes:
- [Liotes Hive Witness](https://vote.hive.uno/@liotes)
- [Liotes Hive-Enginge Witness](https://tribaldex.com/witnesses)

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@bitcoinflood · Feb 16

$0.18

It's not the most user friendly and clearly shows it was mainly built by a dev. What Dev thinks is common sense 99% of users don't lol

👍 alex-rourke, achim03

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@achim03 · Feb 16

I think it would be a safer and more transparent option to have all tokens minted from the start and then to add a supply to a smart contract for outputs for example.

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@blitzzzz · Feb 16

$0.06

That actually sounds quite alarming. I never knew HIVE token creators had that ability... 😱

👍 achim03

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@achim03 · Feb 16

It's indeed not great for investors to have this option open to token creators. A creator can mint token and you wouldn't even know about it if you don't go scanning throught the blockchain. Evern like that it's difficutl to figure it out. When you create a token on Solana, 100% are minted immediately and if you want to you can create contracts that distribute the tokens until there are none left. It's much more transparent and easier to predict the market evolution of a token.

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@christybliss · Feb 16

$0.05

So, are there the possibility of developing the Hive Engine to perform like Solana?

👍 achim03, endhivewatchers

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@achim03 · Feb 16

I honestly don't know whether HE plans anything in this direction.

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@dbooster · Feb 16

$0.06

I need to explore Solana more. Some of the H-E nodes still haven't recovered... Just from a safety standpoint, it's not the best idea to keep all my money here.

👍 achim03, endhivewatchers

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@achim03 · Feb 16 (edited)

$0.05

I follow a similar thought process...

👍 dbooster

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@discovery-it · Feb 18

<div class="pull-left">https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmTAn3c753LR7bHCLPo96g9UvRMaPFwaMYn8VQZa85xczC/discovery_logo_colore%20-%20Copia.png</div><br> This post was shared and voted inside the discord by the curators team of <a href="https://discord.gg/cMMp943"> discovery-it</a> <br>Join our <a href = "https://hive.blog/trending/hive-193212"> Community</a> and follow our <a href = "https://hive.vote/dash.php?i=1&trail=discovery-it">Curation Trail</a><br>Discovery-it is also a Witness, vote for us <a href = "https://hivesigner.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=discovery-it&approve=true"> here</a>  <br>Delegate to us for passive income. Check our <a href = "https://hive.blog/hive-193212/@discovery-it/delegations-program-80-fee-back"> 80% fee-back Program</a> <hr>

👍 bpcvoter4

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@edgerik · Feb 17

$0.06

>Trust is good but control through code is much better in my opinion. It would be great if it would be possible to revoke the mint capacity of tokens on hive. This would add a layer of security to token holders not to be diluted by newly minted tokens by the creator.

I completely agree with your perspective.
Having the ability to revoke the minting capacity on Hive would indeed enhance security and protect token holders from potential dilution.
It's a feature that could bring more trust and stability to the ecosystem.

!BBH
!WINE

👍 achim03

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@achim03 · Feb 18

I believe it would be great to have this option. I'm sure it would increase the trust levels in HE projects.

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@gadrian · Feb 16 (edited)

$0.07

I looked at the link you gave me (I think yesterday) and became familiar with this. It must be one of the reasons why so many tokens are created on Solana, and why many of them attract large amounts of capital too. People who invest large amounts of capital will watch these details for sure. Maybe it's another reason why meme coins are so popular, if technologically they are advanced. Plus, I know meme coins hunters prefer those where the founder already exited and there is no development team. So... basically, the token is entirely in the hands of the market. Not that there's a good thing to have no development...

👍 achim03

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@achim03 · Feb 18

$0.04

When I look at the Meme tokens, I see the classical pump and dump model that is repeating on a daily basis. Some make money but a lot are losing. It's not perfect either but I really don't think that investors should trust only the goodwill of the person that created the token...

👍 gadrian

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@gadrian · Feb 18 (edited)

I'm certainly not an expert in them, but I read or hear about them from people I know or follow, without actually getting involved by buying any. Those who get involved "professionally" have an entire list of things to check before deciding whether they want to get involved with one or not. And usually they still put small amounts on a ton of them, on the hope that a few will moon and the rest will go to zero.

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@indiaunited · Feb 16

$0.03

Indiaunited Curation 1739746769815

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<sub>**100% of the rewards from this comment goes to the curator for their manual curation efforts. Please encourage the curator @steemflow by upvoting this comment and support the community by voting the posts made by @indiaunited.**</sub>

👍 achim03

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@achim03 · Feb 18

Thanks for the curation!

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@jfang003 · Feb 17

$0.06

@jfang003 "I think I would also trust the tokens more if the ..."

I think I would also trust the tokens more if the owner removed the ability to mint and update. It does bring issues, but I think that could also be resolved through a different token though.

👍 achim03

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@achim03 · Feb 18

As long as it's people deciding on distribution of tokens, they are free to do what they want and in my opinion that shouldn't be possible.

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@libertycrypto27 · Feb 18

$0.04

!discovery 30

👍 achim03

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@achim03 · Feb 18

Thanks for the curation!

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@mypathtofire · Feb 16

$0.06

That's really cool to know. That's a shame there is only really Defi or memes as a use case so far on Solana, or that could be good for creating some decentralised economys.

👍 achim03, endhivewatchers

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@achim03 · Feb 16

I've been discovering the Solana ecosystem for the last weeks and found more than meme and defi. I've found a blogging app, games, payment services and other stuff :-). What I like about it is that DEFI is top notch and very integrated.

👍 mypathtofire

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@mypathtofire · Feb 16

$0.04

Yes there's quite a few things going on there, quite a few really interesting projects. I think most  havent taken off so much though yet. But maybe they could be promising.

👍 achim03, endhivewatchers

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@yeckingo1 · Feb 16

$0.04

There are certainly many things to improve in Hive-Engine but it is one of the things I like most about Hive.

👍 achim03, endhivewatchers
👎 spaminator

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@achim03 · Feb 16

Hive-Engine is a great service but this is something I would love to have the option to opt in and also see whether a token is having minted blocked or not.

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