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RE: HF20 Update: Restoring Continuity by ats-david

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com

Viewing a response to: @steemitblog/hf20-update-restoring-continuity

· @ats-david ·
$1.40
>It is ultimately up to the witnesses to decide whether the code is safe enough to use, however, one of the reasons we chose this particular path is due to the fact that simply multiplying the resource budgets by 10 is a simple fix, and with this simplicity, the code easy to audit.

It’s interesting that you decide to mention something like this **_after you already dropped such a massive hard fork on everyone._** It is exactly this kind of post hoc pretense of responsibility that irritates a lot of witnesses. 

>If they choose to adopt this change, user experience could begin improving as soon as tomorrow night.

*If they choose...???* Seriously? You drop a buggy fork (with major problems **_you knew about_**), ask for adoption, insinst on no rollback to bandwidth, then pretend that these patches are somehow *optional* while basic user activity is still throttled? 

>No other community on Earth is trying to do what we are...

And rightfully so. Testing known buggy code on production shouldn’t happen. 

We’ll hopefully get this fixed. After that, I think it’s time for STINC to step aside as the lead dev team for this blockchain. At this point, SMTs are a no-go. I’m not even going to entertain that insane proposal from your team, given the many mistakes and complete lack of foresight we’ve all witnessed since last year.
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vote details (20)
@battleaxe ·
$0.45
@ats-david   yup

oh and as for top 20 Witnesses offering 'discount' delegation SP to POWER UP is a conflict of interest AT BEST
there seems to be zero ethical compass and when you tout you are a leader then you lead...you APOLOGIZE and you sympathize with those on here like vets and such who needed this money ,  people bitch about fiat and run to puppets,  people who care less if they give millions to hoe bags who dance real pretty and love gourmet food then yank it and fuck it up for communities already established to have been doing good
whatever  
![pffft.gif](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmWraeavtZZL5ymUBscLomXK6TT5Nj34mfdpLK87v4zy6m/pffft.gif)
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vote details (9)
@battleaxe ·
$0.15
aggrandizing for us plebs
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vote details (2)
@battleaxe ·
$0.86
aggrandizing for myself because I wanna see the magical fix it patch work
have a nice day
👍  
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vote details (1)
@reverendrum ·
$0.15
This is a trying time, a time where we need champions like you. People's Champions. I truly hope your shining example of speaking up resonates with this community, a decentralized community of powerful, free thinkers who won't have the wool pulled over their eyes. (I hope I have enough RP or mana or whatever other nonsense needed to post this comment!)
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@writtenments ·
As we all move ahead in 'oneness..."Reversing Forward. Future Is History"
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@miryam ·
$0.98
Thank you @ats-david.

Some of us have been doing damage control for the last few days, for a group of multi-millionaires who can't seem to be bothered. Personally, I'm over it. Steem is a viable blockchain but Steemit can burn to the ground for all I care.

I notice @ned's mana and RC are both at 100% though. Which begs quite a few questions ...
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vote details (5)
@ned · (edited)
I began mentioning it much more strongly prior to the hardfork when some Witnesses began admitting they hadn’t read the release notes and some top 20 Witnesses only began testing two days prior to the proposed HF. Ask Lukestokes or Reggaemuffin who began prompting Witnesses for their published standards and when.

Going forward speaking loudly to the definitions of the contiuents of Steem governance and their roles, especially going into SMTs and other innovation, is absolutely critical. Without stoic Gatekeeping from our Witnesses, the governance is weak. Without Gatekeepers holding devs accountable to Gatekeeper’s standards, or more importantly, without standards, deliverables are under tested. Without Stakeholders of users and businesses holding Gatekeepers accountable, Gates remain low. We need to raise the Stakeholders voice and raise the Gates and raise the demands for optimal approach to development, which should show itself in aggregate of Witnesses’ standards. Personally as a stakeholder I want from this governance a robust combination of conservative process with consistent drive toward innovative development. There are certainly marked improvements to make here in the short term.

Posted from my iPhone. Please excuse omissions, errors or grammatical mistakes.
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vote details (14)
@brianphobos ·
$0.58
I want to congratulate you @ned .   People wouldn't comment or even waste their time if they didn't care.   There have been some really cool things the STEEM blockchain has accomplished and it has been an interesting experiment.   

What has been created here is hard to replicate.   It is far too expensive and requires too much funding for people to easily build their own platforms to "fix" the issues here.  If it was easy everyone would do it.   

That all being said the platform has frustrated us for over two years.  It doesn't really improve it just changes.   The same scenarios continue to exist that the distribution was an absolute joke and for the most part the witness situation is a complete joke and always has been.

This blockchain has probably made about 50 people more successful than they were before.  Everyone else has been stuck in a frustrating time trap.   

### Congratulations @ned ..... you won

https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/landscape_928x523/2013/10/the_wolf_of_wall_street.jpg
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vote details (2)
@ned ·
I feel your emotion but I do not claim to understand it based on what you’ve described. Here are my premises for being resistant to even attempting to clarify your distribution comment because I feel it’s ignoring these: Distribution is woven by Pareto principle as are all the projects and you can’t change this. What exactly are you saying it’s a problem for, Proof of Brain? Peoples money should never be taken from them. Steem is entirely an opt-in system.
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@darkflame ·
I am excited to see where 1 million accounts takes us. I remember when you were on TV talking about Steem at 100,000 users. Keep on @ned you are doing great! I am looking forward to SMTs
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@davemccoy · (edited)
$0.05
This is great that you read one comment.  I hope you read the rest.  If you want to make improvements, then it is imperative.  

Also I love that you know that you are a stakeholder.  I hope you also recognize that your customers on Steemit are stakeholders too.  And if you do, then as the leader of this organization it is your duty to address the issues many of the Steemit users will be facing with this new implementation.
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@writtenments ·
As we all move ahead in  'oneness..."Reversing Forward. Future Is History"
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@doomsdaychassis ·
$0.31
And the true shame of it all is that we as steemians can do nothing about the witness situation. As we all know @freedom is a mega account and has allmost all the top 20 witnesses propped up there with his vote. Hell even @aggroed wrote an article about it.
https://steemit.com/freedom/@aggroed/the-twelve-million-dollar-miner-who-is-freedom
maybe in the next hard fork we could address that account so that the rest of us actually have any power to choose witnesses that want to do the job, not just sit in a top 20 spot and line their pockets. If what you say is true about them only testing 2 days ahead of time that is just shamefull and they should be fired by the people. I guess the obvious answer would be "well it is his stake and he can do as he wishes, If you don't like it doomsday then stop being a peasant." As long as witnesses are complacent because they have the @freedom vote in their back pocket we are all stuck with them no matter how hard we try to leverage them out.
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@mountainjewel ·
$0.04
This needs to be trending...^^^ if these inequalities aren’t faced and dealt with, we will lose more and more users as they realize it’s rigged!
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vote details (2)
@retiredinsamar · (edited)
What I can do is remove all my witness votes... and that is all that I can do (and did). Oh wait... I can power down also!
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vote details (8)
@socky ·
$0.30
@doomsdaychassis makes the best argument. I have been trying to get witnesses to take on a leadership role since Steemit Inc leaves major gaps in functioning as a leader. The argument from witnesses is that leadership isn't their duty. It is true it is not their duty especially when they are on the @freedom easy street. It really is up to @freedom to decide if the witnesses should take on a leadership role. The CEO can point fingers all he wants to, but at the end of the day, the CEO of the company that develops the software is the one responsible.
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vote details (6)
@toddrjohnson ·
$0.16
The fundamental problem with steem is that the rules are set up to encourage and then maintain an oligarchy. As long as that continues, Steem, as a content platform or social network, is doomed. An oligarchy is not decentralized. The hierarchy formed by proof of stake is not decentralized. As a content platform the rules need to be set up to reward quality content not who has the most stake. Of course with an oligarchy it is hard to change the rules to benefit the majority over the minority. We see that in government today and it is causing all kinds of problems. Yes, people can buy into Steem, but money is not a substitute for proof of brain in either the extra-steem world or steem.

I have introduced many people to Steem, but I'm the only one regularly using it. Once they learn about all the limits and that those highly paid posts are really purchased, they lose interest. Now with RC so limited for new users, things will be even worse. I see Steem as an interesting experiment, which is why I am here. My hope is that it will dramatically improve, or else a competitor will come along that bests it. The basic idea is really good, its current and continued implementation is just flawed. I could say that that is to be expected given the uncharted territory Steem is in, but many many posts have pointed out problems, some have suggested solutions, and as far as I can tell the oligarchy has rejected all of them.

Proud member of #steemitbloggers @steemitbloggers
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vote details (12)
@valued-customer ·
$0.04
>"...If you don't like it doomsday then stop being a peasant."

Thanks for the belly laugh.

Thanks more for the true words.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@writtenments ·
As we all move ahead in 'oneness..."Reversing Forward . Future Is History"
properties (22)
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@doomsdaychassis ·
$0.76
Oh what the hell I will burn some resource credits linking to this brilliant piece [right here](https://steemit.com/steemit/@paulag/unmasking-freedom-what-the-data-can-tell-us-steemit-business-intelligence) by another deserving witness @paulag who will never have the chance to get to top 20 because she does not have the vote from freedom and that all but seals her fate to live outside the top 20 no matter what she does. Please help us @ned . This is a way to fix steemit. Also how many RC does it take to eit because I had to do a new comment because it was saying I did not have enough credits to edit a comment but I can make a whole new one. 

<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/2iydrt"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/2iydrt.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>
👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@paulag ·
$0.26
@doomsdaychassis one day the distribution will change, you and I will be whales, freedom will be gone and @steemcommunity will have an amazing chance of climbing to the top. Why, well because we are working at the grass roots, nurturing the users that are sticking with steem. So when @ned and steemit inc do have a world class blockchain, they will also have the social proof because we will have created it.

Thank you for this menton, knowing some of the community regard what we do as valuable means a massive amount

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://steemit.com/@partiko-android)
👍  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@writtenments ·
As we all move ahead in 'oneness..."Reversing Forward. Future Is History"
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@mykos ·
$2.97
I wrote you a nice letter Ned Scott. A way to solve all these problems and usher us into a new golden age. You ignored my letter and now this thread resembles the french revolution.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ned · (edited)
Happy to read it now, link? Thanks for your patience.
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@nigelmarkdias · (edited)
$0.22
#### _[At your desk, Ned](https://steemit.com/steemit/@nigelmarkdias/at-your-desk-ned-2018-09-29-09-48-01)_
![341407EA-5013-42DA-82CE-7A31E26A8150.jpeg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmcR9eE6E7d4oY3VRjueuFDWJFnMRmUj8D6pVL18zTeraC/341407EA-5013-42DA-82CE-7A31E26A8150.jpeg)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@sapphic ·
$0.19
@ned I'm shaking my head

Lemme get this straight, you need rigorous gatekeeping witnesses to stop the shitty code  changes, yet there are sweet fanny Adams that understand the code in its entirety

Inherently you are outsourcing  code QA to people that  are paid for their services by the output of that code.

And that looks like a serious conflict of interest. 

Oh and vote for my witness if you want change 😂
👍  , , , , ,
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vote details (6)
@ned ·
I take blame here. Let’s now look forward again — the reality is the system is going to be stronger with published Witness’ Gatekeeping Standards. These become Steem’s development companies’ standards that must be met too.It’s something we’ll all arrive at together. I’m actually looking forward to the process. Once we get some of our sleep back
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@sircork · (edited)
$0.59
Disappears for months, Shows up to point fingers at everyone but the team that has millions of dollars to spend on resources which are the "gatekeepers". Would flag for self aggrandizement, but I don't want to consume my precious RC on it and I can't afford it anyway, because I was using my power to help users all morning on other threads. Trying to retain some of them before this place goes completely ghost town over crap decisions and poor execution by the aristocracy, that fails at meritocracy.
👍  , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (9)
@stellabelle · (edited)
$0.57
Dear Ned, Everyone has lost. If there was a time to apologize and show a tiny bit of empathy now would be it. Upvoting for aggrandizement of Resource Credits Depletion Action.

Posted using [Partiko iOS](https://steemit.com/@partiko-ios)
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@battleaxe ·
$0.14
picks up old copy of "The Sociopath Next Door" and begins to read....I also find it interesting that it's some of the strong women who have taken a lot of sh*t that will and can take matters into their own hands besides being told they "make good coffee"
hope it's a circle jerk of weiner waggers left bragging about whose nudes they scored when they realize that people with souls will not support this
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@tcpolymath ·
$0.48
Hi, @ned, I don't know if you're reading these or not, a lot of people have some pretty hostile responses here and while I feel them I couldn't blame you for feeling like this was going nowhere. However, I have a suggestion for addressing some of these issues, and I hope you'll consider it.

Part of the problem here is that witness rewards aren't tied into testing, code review, and so on. And I believe that they shouldn't be - there are different skillsets required for being a good dev and a good witness. But that means that sufficient testing of the hardforks is unrewarded, which is why no one was doing it.

I propose that we set up a Utopian-like system, supported with SP from Steemit Inc. and the top witnesses, specifically for Steem blockchain development. New code, code review, unit testing, bug reports, testnet experiences, and so on could all be done publicly through posts and rewarded through votes, so that instead of every witness having to do a private review of code that is scattered through github, there would be a reviewable public record of the testing that was being done, and more importantly, everyone could contribute to it. This would provide the incentive for more extensive testing that the current system is lacking without putting additional burden on witnesses, or requiring that any dev who wants to be compensated for that work also run a witness.

This would provide the witnesses with a collection of data they could more easily review, and expertise from a larger group of people reviewing the actual code and supplying their expertise, before making their decision to accept an update. It would also put their information-state on a par with the rest of the community's, so we would not be assuming that the job was being done in the background.
👍  , , , , , ,
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vote details (7)
@improv ·
$0.17
YES. I love this. And I also love that it would make possible and enticing the idea that even hobbyists could contribute. One of my favorite experiences recently was taking a look at the new code for when @steembasicincome will be automated and checking for any logic bugs with my little knowledge. Now, I didn't find any, and I don't know how helpful I was, and I didn't understand all the nuances of what I was reading, but that little real-world experience helped me learn so much about Python.

I can imagine a whole part of steemit dedicated to explaining what each section of code does and how it does it, and having that explained to the laymen. I think this would go not only a long way in helping find and fix potential errors, but also in getting so much more of humanity on board with what blockchains are, how they work and why we're using them.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@joeyarnoldvn ·
I would name it http://SteemTest.io as the place where the test version of Steemit can be as you have stated, or we can call it something else, but something easy enough for enough people to know how to find for observing, testing, considering, contributing, for some feedback, and a great failsafe and also a great public record of it all just in case. Thanks for sharing this with the world.
properties (22)
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@socky ·
$0.10
Finally, some good input on how to improve STEEM.

Seems like there will be a bunch of arguing back and forth about each change where the consensus would be against change as people fear change. 

How about we take your idea but instead place a bounty reward for anyone (not just witnesses) who can identify a bug? An account can be set up with SP with delegation renting to accrue more value until the next fork. This way it pays for itself.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@tygertyger · (edited)
@ned If you want real change it is simple give every steemian equal voting power on such important matters such as witness votes ect.  like this people who actually earn the trust of the users get the power not some entitled  sponsored idiots who could not bother to test or read ...
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@underground ·
Welp, I tell ya, @ned... that is why I am working on this thing here that I call the "Dolphin Council" and we are working on making the role "Witness" equivalent and now that I am both, it is morphing into a combination council.  I do not pretend to be the "leader" of this new group, but at this time I am guiding the charter of it.  Your "gatekeepers" speech above gives me some great ideas for the Council.  Thanks. 
As you may have noticed,  Many or Most of the new witnesses are mid-level folks,  which is a good deal.   New Blood, fresh ideas,  different perspectives.  The "DC" hopes to mirror this new(er) Steem Demographic and "inject" these traits into the Blockchain. 
> Personally as a stakeholder I want from this governance a robust combination of conservative process with consistent drive toward innovative development. There are certainly marked improvements to make here in the short term.

Could not have said it better myself, but that sums up a lot of my feelings about the "State Of Steem"...
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@writtenments ·
As we all move ahead in 'oneness..."Reversing Forward. Future Is History"
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@programmingvalue ·
$0.14
That's a good point, they should definitely test the code in a non-production environment first. Does Steem have a test net?
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@transisto ·
You seems to think that STINC blocking the way by being the lead dev team. 
You might want to find replacements before firing someone.
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@ats-david ·
I’m currently reviewing résumés. :)
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@stellabelle ·
Lulz

Posted using [Partiko iOS](https://steemit.com/@partiko-ios)
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@writtenments ·
As we all move ahead in 'oneness..."Reversing Forward. Future Is History"
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@writtenments ·
As we all move ahead in 'oneness..."Reversing Forward.Future Is History"
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