"Goverments can easily influence Steemit Inc or other companies promoting their front-ends.Do you really think it matters much if some content is on blockchain, if this content is not being displayed by any front end? I really have my doubts."

I think it really does matter. Even if these companies were universally intimidated to censor, once it's on there it's public. The blockchain is just out there ready to be  read. While it may be put behind obstacles or exempt from being read by a given utility for whatever reason, they don't erase it. It can even still be read.

If we use the black bars put over stuff to censor it on television as an analogy for this kind of censorship by frontends, it would be like we can go out of our way to move the black rectangles off of the picture and it's still there underneath.

Being flagged can't stop an account from posting, as far as I know. On other social media the company can stop an account from posting.

Also just because they created the blockchain, why does that mean they could stop it? You could threaten Satoshi Nakamoto all you want and she or he would still be just as incapable of bringing down the Bitcoin network as you. That's if you could find the slippery person or people anyway.

If only Ned et al. were so anonymous.

Think about this, you use Facebook, they get the money. On here, you use the site and you get rewarded for it. This site is like Reddit so people are gonna down vote. I've been downvoted for no reason on Reddit more than I can count. 
As to removing your rewards that is true.  That Bernie flagged an innocent post and I lost my earnings.

I agree with you that downvoting is just a method to 'shut the mouth' of the person who expresses 'unpleasant' thoughts. In this case steemit it worse than facebook et al. I have seen many accounts being destroyed just because they expressed something which the powerful people didn't like.

Thanks for your invitation, @crypto.piotr. Good to hear from you. Since we're in Poland a lot for political reasons your name came to my attention before. Now, I'd love to discuss this topic with you, though on the blockchain NOT. ;-)

Do you know the story of Telegram? If you approve to it, I may send you my t.me/telegram via encrypted message. Seriously!

As long as we have our rights we could do whatever in our mind and still have our freedom in social media so go ahead, we are in a new era every time there is a new topic we just observe and act whatever we could do for the future. Thanks Piotr

No such thing as total freedom wherever you go... even total freedom can turn to licentiousness and would enslave you to your own self. It is up to you how you leverage any privileges you got now and appreciate the "freedom" of doing things that you can at the moment (there are lots of it anyway) .

I entirely agree.  Censorship comes in many forms.  You are free to post what you want (and can do so quickly at low cost) through a WordPress blog.  Just because you are free to write it doesn’t mean others will have access to it.  After writing, you then need to show up in Google search to be found and read.  Google becomes the gatekeeper.

Similarly on SteemIt, you can post what you want (like the views you expressed here) but it takes centralized incentives to bring your views forwards.  In this case, crypto.piotr shared your link with me and encouraged me to read it.  Without that, your ideas would not have been shared with me.

The problem isn’t the forum to create and share ideas.  The problem is the ease of access and awareness of those ideas, which still are largely centralized.

There is a big difference between someone who can censor and an entire company that can censor.  There is a fine line between decentralized and censorship.  Some people think that a decentralized platform means do whatever the heck you want, which includes plagiarism, posting a porn picture with no content, and the inevitable one liners with bidbot abuse.  This is where flags come in.  

Sure a whale can simply disagree with you and censor your posts by downvoting, but that is still a needed mechanic of the platform.  Reason being that anarchy, or decentralization, typically doesn't work due to human greed.  Aside from the potential that Steem/Steemit has, it is also a social experiment that I for one, have never seen before.  The big question is...

## Can we govern ourselves?
In my opinion, if and when the higher ups take notice of this platform and want to get involved, we as a community should have safeguards already in place to combat any kind of abuse or plagiarism that would be deemed unworthy of rewards.  

There are too many people more focused on upvoting than downvoting for various reasons, but that doesn't mean that the downvoting system is wrong.  It might have a few flaws but censorship will always be needed, whether something is decentralized or not.

If there were no flags, for example, there would no doubt be child porn floating around on this site (which I have seen in the past), and surely that post is still lurking somewhere, whether it was flagged or not. If authorities caught wind of this, goodbye steem.

So it's not completely censorship free, but how much money is Steemit Inc. making off of content creators?  

I think that there is a common misconception of what decentralization means.
>"A decentralized system is one which requires multiple parties to make their own independent decisions" In such a decentralized system, there is no single centralized authority that makes decisions on behalf of all the parties.

We each make independent decisions every day on how we want to experience our decentralized utopia here using the Steem blockchain.  The rules are stated very clearly in the welcome page, yet people choose to abuse instead.  So censorship is inevitable.  We as a community have taken a decentralized approach to censorship.  Unfortunately censorship occurs even when there is a mere difference of opinion, and there is a fine line as to whether or not some of these censorship occurrences are justified.  Is it new content, or is it the same conspiracy that's been on youtube for the last 10 years?  Is there something new to add to the topic, or is the author just bringing the same news/facts/ideas to the platform that already exist everywhere else? It's a fine line but some people are willing to cross it.  

Without flags, I can't imagine that my content would reach many people because it would get buried a lot faster.  At least in this case, the people, the community, those who care about the future of the platform are working together to help fight abuse on the blockchain.  In my opinion, this and other platforms like it are the most censorship-free platforms I can find.  Not one central entity, government agency or company runs the entirety of the platform.  Steemit Inc can go out of business tomorrow and Steem will still be there.  It is up to us to govern ourselves on this platform.  To govern *eachother*.  This would be the only way to prove that it can be done without a government having to step in and take over, and tell us what we can or can't read, or censor our posts.

Those on the platform who are getting censored could just be going about it the wrong way and they should try a different approach.  I have blogged about a controversial topic before and I didn't get flagged, so the censorship isn't always there. However; I did experience a bit of fear that I might get flagged since it was regarding a conspiracy theory, but reality is when it comes to conspiracy theories, those blogging about it don't know the truth any more than those who don't believe in said conspiracy theory.  Otherwise, it wouldn't be called a *theory*.  

So is it a decentralized platform? Of course it is!  Does decentralized mean censorship free?  Of course not!  Anyone with enough invested in the platform will surely do whatever they can to protect their investment, but for the most part -- keep it original, and you should be okay.

Love the post but where there is power there is greed these organisations you talk about can easily infiltrate the crypto space. Bitcoin price is being controlled already by a number of unknown whales. Then You look at the big coins and you see the "poster boys" who own them. Ethereum's Vitalik has already had several meetings with Vladimir Putin. Charles Lee proved that he  would buy and sell his own mother.  Ned  ..... well I wouldn't be singing from the rooftops with him.  For every coin there is a well known guy that set it up.   The whales on Steem are playing the system for their own fortune.  It is failing because of it.  These guys have not been elected by any democratic system. They are either programming genius's or were in the right place at the right time. If your predictions are correct they will become the new leaders. Judging by what is happening in the crypto space over the last two years, the in fighting, the hard forks, the scams that robbed people of their livelihoods in some cases.  Maybe it is better the devil we know! Crypto reminds me of George Orwell's Animal Farm.  Let's overthrow the governments, let's take control, decentralisation is the future. Out of the frying pan and into the fire of people we haven't elected. A new 1% but with no code of ethics.

@ crypto.piotr I agree with your remarks. I motion that the Steemit user base add democratic pressure, now that we are still at the beginning, to Steemit, to remove the flagging system from their business model. Spammers are not the "big problem" that folks make them out to be, for individuals have blocking control on their silo accounts. We are in need of greater freedom of speech, and not a greater muzzle, or money trap. Steemit could have been the answer(if only we all just generously participated and upvote each other without judgement and in support, but it's not it because of the culture being created here. We've proven to be naturally stingy, self-centered, and selfish even with what's not ours. It is what it is. 

When I first arrived on Steemit, my mind was dazzled by such a community of awesome people from all walks of life, then I started feeling a great cloud of judgment. One cannot enjoy Steemit without being a part of a supportive community, and to have unpopular opinions ensures invisibility with flagging and the snobbish ignoring. "Group Think." We want equal, not money talk. Separate speech form money!

this is for all i know it

This is a very interesting theme, @crypto.piotr and @julianhorack - I don't know enough about the technicalities of Steemit to respond to all @crypto.piotr's points but yes, can imagine that any platform based on money/points = power /influence can and will be influenced by people with manipulating tendencies (who have money). 
But collective, decentralised and horizontal structures have incredible power too, to overcome all manner of power dynamics... When I know more, I'll be able to explain *how*!
All power to us in doing good in the world!

![](https://d1vof77qrk4l5q.cloudfront.net/img/057ffad795f6336f0a5ecad2c7de8a786315032f.jpg)

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An interesting opinion indeed, but i can't really agree. I lived my whole life in a post-soviet country. I know what censorship is. The true censorship is not about hardening access to some content, but punishing authors and publishers for making it. This is mre about legal field all types of media are in.

Steemit is part of a real world. It is playing by common rules whether you like it not. Yeah, there are tools in Steemit that can be used rof censorship. Tools, as always, are neither good nor bad. It's how and who uses them. How many examples of "bad" using ot the tools here on steemit do you know?

For me steemit is great tool to find information and opinions I can't get in more mainstream media platforms. And a great opportunity to freely express mine.

It's very disappointing see steemit censoring content and see how easy it is. But the problem is in fact the public reach steem doesn't have, you can run your own frontend and no being shut down but with no traffic.

I agree with some of what you say.. specifically the flag wars that recently went on really show the power of spamming someone to oblivion.

And makes for a very unfun space to share life's quirky moments.

Governments surely can walk in, in many cases, and just change laws that affect what you can and cannot do, and the internet will likely struggle with this more and more..

And while _everything_ on the internet is here forever,, in another way, how long can we continue to power blockchains that use up more and more energy. And how long can we save all the information being shared and duplicated to keep chains working..

Be interesting these next fews years as all this moves into more adoption by the more and more people...

Oh... forgot! Piotr thanks for the invite to this interesting post!

Hi @piotr,
Thanks for your invitation to such interesting post. I’ve already put my bit answering my thoughts about the subject. I’m not going to duplicate it but can tell you I’m quite sceptical about putting in other hands the merit of giving freedom.
Freedom ( and the real power) lives inside us no one can give it to you nor take it from you but it’s possible to hack you(your brain) and prevent you from realize the fact you’r being manipulated therefore enslaved.
Hugs

I wouldnt say Steem is worse. Its still the place to be. Front ends and their server locations to even isps can determine matters before you can even decide as a buisness or individual as to what content to provide or consume.

You both are right but what is put on the chain is there forever and the flags you speak of still isnt as bad as a algorythim or youtube taking all your superchats just because or deleting all your subscribers.

Yes and no.

If you don't care about the reputation and/or rewards, it is pretty censorship resistant.

If you have questionable content like @thedarkoverlord, then frontends can "censor" you. Then, only the tech savvy or places that don't fall under certain jurisdictions could access those data.

In extreme situations, consensus can wipe someone out, but that would also destroy the trust in the blockchain.

If you are looking for a good social atmosphere, this place is far from it.

Id have to agree with you, if a big business put a lot money they can easily manipulate and censor you.

But there's another concepts of blockchain out there helping against censorship, like BitTube https://bit.tube/ is a peer-to-peer, decentralized, censorship-free video sharing and live streaming platform based on IPFS and blockchain technology, this IPFS allows even if a government blocks a domain, its still possible to access the data through a hash.

I disagree with both... Both of you for me are Wrong.

The reason is simple. You both fail to see the positive virtue within the technology.

You can't solve all problems with fire... even if that was what Homo Sapiens though...

It depends... and yes.. a shit of answer... but that's the reality.

My personal opinion is that yes steemit can give us a oportunity for a free speach. I mean lets compare it to a other social media platforms. 

You make your post and it is sensite. Than they just remowe it. Thats it ciao.
They block you. 

Here on the blockchain right now they cant remove contents. They can, but for that they will need all the whitnesses. 

Or yes they can flag you they can destroy the account. That is true. And i also really disagree with it. 

But lets dont forget that steem and all the blockchains are young. We are the pioneers. I am almost 1 year and i already saw many changes. And it will be always better and better. 

By the way if the blockchain will work properly than even they flag you from the big account there should be a lot of people who also support you so you can see which is stronger the cenzorship or the truth.

But right now while everyone selling they votes and the flags are like this it will be not happen. 

Maybe later.....

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I agree with most of the comments here. Steem is generally resistent to censorship; if a client like Steemit chooses not to display posts or comments that have been voted down it doesn't mean they've been silenced. What's lacking is simple UX that would let people use Steem without having to use a centralized service like Steemit or Steemconnect (see China) so that the actual, uncensored truth can actually be addressed by anyone.

Whether or not the lack of censorship is a good thing is a totally different discussion, though. There's probably a lot of people who would disagree, be it for political or hate speech.

So far, most people who value the freedom of decentralization *currently* are social beings; this will change once mass-adoption of blockchain has kicked in.

> Steemit is actually the worst when it comes to censorship. Anyone with money can censor you.

Not true.

It's so disappointing that people still can't get it.

Steemit is not Steem.
Nobody can stop you from posting on Steem.
Nobody can stop you from reading Steem posts.
Flagging is not censorship. They don't affect posting or reading.
Visibility depends on UI.
You can chose UI, you can clone and/or build your own.
You can use API.
If nodes are limiting you, you are free to start your own.

Steem is a great tool, but as with any other tool: in smart hands it can improve our lives
but not only smart people use it, as proven by many.

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