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Why wouldn't someone join Hive? by tarazkp

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @tarazkp ·
$37.12
Why wouldn't someone join Hive?
<div class="text-justify">


I was discussing some Hive points around the [benefits of staking](https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@tarazkp/opting-into-hive-for-a-richer-world) and how the biggest challenge facing Hive is attracting end users, not developers or creatives. I stated the issue as, *An audience has to be attracted away from where they are currently consuming, which is very difficult as they are already consuming a lot and much of it is forced down their throat by centralized curation. It is where their friends are, it is polished and pretty, it is convenient - it is risk free.*

>Using Hive as one's primary social media is also completely risk free. What is there to lose?@markkujantunen

This is correct, Hive is risk free in some ways and there is very little to lose in trying, but this isn't the same as trying a new food or hobby, as that is not the way most people are introduced to Hive. Most people are presented the "getting paid" part and I believe this comes saddled with assumptions and expectations. 


![honeycomb.png](https://files.steempeak.com/file/steempeak/tarazkp/Pbx6d0GZ-honeycomb.png)

I think that firstly, people are likely to believe that it is some kind of scam, as many are already wary of the "earn online" nonsense that much of the internet is known for. The next thing is that it can also seem too good to be true or that the chance of getting paid isn't good. Some people get paid through Instagram, Twitter and Facebook - but *no normal user* joined up there in order to earn from the get-go, it was purely consumptive - however some expanded into earning from that point.

I think the other thing that would likely come up is that getting paid to contribute comes with the feeling of work and for most, work rarely comes with a positive feeling. Not only that, while people add stuff to social media all of the time, once a "reward" is available, the concept of social judgement comes into play in a different way. Getting judged on opinion is one thing, getting judged on skills quite another and many people are quite fearful of this. Not getting paid not only doesn't attract as critical eye from the audience, it also gives an excuse for not being better - 

>*professionals* get paid, not amateurs.

On most other social media platforms where people spend their time, people do not know how much those who get paid get, they don't necessarily even know *who* actually gets paid. Is an "influencer" getting paid, free merchandise or are the parents footing the bill? When we do actually know someone is getting paid, it is the star level kinds of people like Christiano Ronaldo, who got paid 60 million for a handful of paid posts on Instagram, 3x that of his salary of performing his *prodession.* But, he is famous, he is someone, he already has a following. 

>Who am I to get paid for my random amateur nonsense?

That is rhetorical - I am no one. As are we all. Just like the markets, who we are doesn't matter as much as the sentiment concerning who we are. For example, the small difference in skill at professional levels matters less than the hype a person can create surrounding who they are. The top graduates from an Ivy league school for example, will earn more than those just below, even though the grades are very similar. Perception matters, things like reputation and expectation.

While I know that most people don't think about these things directly or at depth, I believe that when a user is presented with the "get paid to blog" scenario, they immediately think, "what would I blog about that is worth getting paid for" and it doesn't matter if told that it doesn't matter, just do what you normally do on other platforms. 

*Getting paid* comes saddled with ingrained expectations of many kinds and *social risks* come into play. Trying a new food or starting a new hobby has less risk from the get go as very few try a food or start a hobby with the expectation that they are going to get paid for it, at least not from other people sitting in the restaurant or in the class.

Don't you find it interesting that on Hive, we pay each other? You should, because this is the future of ownership and consumption  - a far more *direct relationship* between supplier and consumer with far less middlemen. This is not the normal order of business on other platforms as while consumers pay, the *platform* distributed. 

But, a new potential user doesn't know anything about this, they have no idea what the platform is about and do not consider it an investment vehicle or a place to hang out, because, they are already hanging out somewhere else and investing into social media isn't really possible without buying stocks. 

In my view, there are many reasons why someone would be scared to join Hive and a lot of it comes down to their previous experiences on the internet in general and with social media. Money from the internet sounds like a scam, social media is something that people do for free. Most do know that the large companies are making bundles of cash off of their users, but don't know any users who are actually making money from social media. We might have a higher rate of awareness here, but how many people do you know in your real-world social circles who make money from posting online?

As said, *perception matters* and the perception that many people have of earning online opportunities is either not good or, considered out of their reach. I think that this sets up a mental/ emotional hurdle that stops many people from putting their hat in the ring and giving it a go. The last barrier I will mention here is social proofing.

>If this is so good, why aren't more people here?

What I believe is that if there were more people here that people actually knew (like friends, family and celebrities which the other platforms leverage), more people would be willing to join as it has been "pre-approved" by their peers, it has been normalized. Even for many of the people who have given Hive a go, this isn't normal and they aren't so keen to invite their friends and family onto the platform - which creates a catch-22 for the platform too. 

Perhaps the only way around this is for a Hive application to become very popular and attract many users without having them go through the Hive learning curve, one that requires a paradigm shift. Instead, they come in through a mass gateway and then filter out as the success of one application will inspire more development and gateways to explore. Some percentage of the arrivals will get interested in the platform to start learning and investing, which will create a similar mass of users for the investment side, normalizing investing directly into a platform and creating that direct relationship between consumer and contributor. 

The mechanisms surrounding *creator and consumer rewards* are obviously a vital part of the equation, but due to most people off-platform not really having any understanding of what this all means, it also becomes a hurdle.

Something interesting happened the other day while sitting around with my colleagues. I have mentioned that I write during the course of the discussion, one of them mentioned an article of mine she had read about my daughter and how moving it was. She doesn't have an account here. How long until she joins? Now, I could force the matter and she will join under my guidance, but doing it upon her own volition means *she is opting-in* and there is power is that - when the decision is our own, we are more likely to invest ourselves to discover further and, more likely to consider the decision we made as good. 

When we try a new restaurant we will often over-reward the experience and tell others. However, when we try a new restaurant based on the recommendation of friends, we will evaluate it based on *their opinion* and we will have set expectations. Food is pretty simple, Hive is not and a lot of people doing the onboarding have either already overcome all of the hurdles to be well versed and therefore forgetful of the challenges of the technical side and the paradigm shift required, or not have much of an understanding past "get paid". Either way - it can make *trying Hive* difficult. 

>Should people join and try? 

Of course! But it isn't as easy for many people as some people might think. I remember posting my first post and the trepidation I had at the time. It was a piece others had seen and liked, but when I put it here, *it felt different.* The only difference? 

*There was the potential for it to earn something.*

It changes things dramatically.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

I am very interested to hear your own experiences and opinions around this area.

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@abitcoinskeptic ·
$0.07
For me this is a hobby, not a job. However when I have a lot of Hive I feel inclined to post a lot. Then, it becomes like a part time job. The pay sucks.
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
Yep, a paying hobby (even if the pay sucks) is still a pretty good deal. Getting paid to do what you would do for free :)
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@abitcoinskeptic ·
That's how I feel about gardening. There are a few other things I like to do that I can make a little bit of money from, too.
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@acidyo ·
$0.07
nice engagement, will read later and downvote some trending posts that have none.
👍  
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@tarazkp · (edited)
$0.15
:D

Yeah, I wasn't expecting to spend my day on this post, but it has been filled with a lot of good conversation :)
👍  
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@aschatria ·
$0.07
Everyone I know has a different expectations from the Internet.
When I say anything about making a money on some website it is automatically responded by but is it not a fraud.
inviting people who already know something about crypto is much easier.
If a person likes what the website has to offer they will join in and if they are met by the obstacles or difficulties they will still take time to make an account.
On the other hand if a person is not that much interested he/she will stick with the most popular websites.
👍  
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@kristyglas ·
It's so weird that people still think that, Patreon and Kickstarter have been around long enough for people to know it's possible.
👍  
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@aschatria ·
A big majority of people are interested in the entertaining purposes of the Internet not that much about the money making.
I think that the both websites have their users but mostly people around me are interested in the Facebook or the YouTube. Some are only interested in the websites like the Instagram and nothing more.
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@tarazkp ·
>When I say anything about making a money on some website it is automatically responded by but is it not a fraud.

I get the "this is a scam of some kind" look :) 

>inviting people who already know something about crypto is much easier.

Yes and they often understand the risks of the investment side too.
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@beehivetrader ·
$0.07
Its been 10 days since I joined hive, and here's my experience so far.
A lot happened during the last 10 days with me.

1) I've been following Hive since March, and I've been into cryptos since early 2017, so I personally didnt face too many issues,
2) I invited some of my friends on Facebook/Twitter/other platforms on to Hive. Here's what happened:
     a) Most of them got excited about the possibility of getting a few extra bucks by posting some stuff which 
          other people will like
     b) Most of them really got interested in this project, and appreciated it.
     c) But in the end, 95% of the people complained that its too difficult for them to understand. They didnt understand what is peakd, (just for example), why the same posts can be accessible on peakd as well, they didnt understand how the blockchain is working.  
 Secondly, they didnt understand how other DApp on top of hive is working, what is a layer 2 solution like some Dapps are there on Hive, with their own native tokens,
 Thirdly, they didnt know how the new "Money" is getting generated.

These were the challenges faced while I tried to onboard people on to hive.

P.S. This is an account which I created completely new, to really see how many people is getting interest on Hive.
I have my original twitter account (with a different name) having more than 1000 followers, thats where I came to find out these responses.
I found it really hard to onboard new users, even through giveaways and stuff. I now have only 20 followers on this hive account :P

My suggestion: It would be a significant boost  if Hive is more noob friendly, and easy to understand.

Maybe we all can help making the experience a bit more noob friendly :)
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
>Thirdly, they didnt know how the new "Money" is getting generated.

Did you answer "magically on the internet" ? :D

>My suggestion: It would be a significant boost if Hive is more noob friendly, and easy to understand.

Yes. The entire crypto scene is not so user friendly and the understanding of blockchain takes it to another level completely. Perhaps a infographic "cheat sheet" might help?
👍  
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@beehivetrader ·
$0.06
> Did you answer "magically on the internet" ? :D

Well, not exactly, tried explaining them about the Hive economics. And believe me, may of them didnt understand the forking as well, they were like, they can see the same posts on steemit as well,  what kind of sorcery it that, its like Facebook getting copied and made into a clone called facebook1, where the old users can access the data from the old facebook page, as well as the new facebook1 page lmao.... like the newbies are not understanding whats happening here.

> Perhaps a infographic "cheat sheet" might help?

Yes, I believe this will help a lot. 
Most people believe that this thing is for the "geeky" people already into cryptocurrency and all.



Another point I want to add:
Some of the OGs who have been in space since 2012-2013 also suggested that the top 20 people on Hive own too much Hivepower, and maybe they should organize small giveaways to new people on this platform, who are creating good content, having very less hivepower in their account, to make it a bit more decentralized, some sort of...
some people did say the rich people are getting richer, what about the poor people :P
👍  
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@bhoa ·
$0.07
Most times when I want to tell someone about hive, i most times try to remove the earning part of it because it isn't actually easy to earn on hive. Your introductory post can go sour and things just don't get easy thereon. 

However i still tell them that there are opportunities on hive but I do less hahammering on the reward pattern so they don't get disappointed. 

An app that can bring people to hive will do a lot. Splinter lands might do a lot.. An online shop that accepts hive and more
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
There are plenty of opportunities. An online shop that accepts Hive would likely also accept other currencies - so it would be people on Hive using it, meaning they have to be here already. I am interested in why people *don't try at all.* It is weird.
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@bhoa ·
$0.07
Fear of the unknown...  why would I join when I can stay where I am... Fear of change... 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@markkujantunen · (edited)
$0.07
>I am interested in why people don't try at all. It is weird.

Exactly. I tried to convince a group of friends of mine to move over to Steem in the summer of 2017. Had they done so while completely ignoring any potential to earn and while continuing to shoot shit just like on Facebook, they'd probably all have accounts worth at least hundreds of dollars by now. Come next bull run those accounts could be worth thousands of dollars. Why turn all that down? The response I got was either a flat out refusal to consider moving or deafening silence. 

That was such a shocking experience that I don't think I will ever recover from. I lost a great deal of respect for all these people. In that circle of people, some are "critics of capitalism". Facebook is probably the worst possible example of an exploitative giant social media corporation powerful enough to distort democratic processes in nearly every country on Earth - and demonstrably willing to do so. Yet, these people continue flapping their gums about evil capitalists while demonstrating total impotence even as consumers regarding choosing a social media platform. They are not even useful idiots. Just idiots.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@bigtom13 ·
$0.07
I actually have an idea.  It's not the sweeping 'empty facebook' sort of idea, but...

Transport a (more) forum to Hive.  It'd take front end development, but really forum architecture is pretty basic. Bring them in, give them enough VP to vote and comment and show the money line in the small print at the bottom.  I belong to at least three of the things, the largest of which has several hundred thousand members that represent 25,000 comments per day.  That group even publishes an on line magazine that is based partly on posts from members...

If they want to be 'just' forum users they can be.  If they want more, it's there.  The 'forum ownership' could benefit by making some 'money' instead of just paying ever increasing server bills.  There's a lot to be said about it, but you get the basic idea.  Plus it would be a massive 'instant community'.

It could be a 'softer kinder' way to onboard the general public...  And I'm sure we'd get a % as 'full users'.     
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
@TokenBB was meant to do this on Steem, but the project seemed to lose wind in early 2019. A forum would be great and tied in with communities it could be a fantastic system.
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@bil.prag ·
$0.07
every new platform is "hard" for "regular" people. we are all in a bubble of our friends on fb or instagram. especially for us living in a small town where everyone knows everyone. so my initial public of 200-500 people on there is gone where ever i move, because they will not move without bunch of their friends moving. 

> I think the other thing that would likely come up is that getting paid to contribute comes with the feeling of work and for most, work rarely comes with a positive feeling. 

well for consumers it should maybe be earning with not really thinking about earning. you consume, and earning is just a bonus that happens because you are here.

My take on it for now, people should join Hive to get the feel of crypto. to see how it works, to start thinking about keys, to get the feel of transferring, tipping... and while they are learning all of that, they will see what is the best for them to do on hive. 
If we get an app that is user friendly and easy to use, then we could really talk about onboarding people that had initially no interest in crypto.

👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
>because they will not move without bunch of their friends moving.

This is where the onboarding of small communities would come in very handy. Rather than bringing them on, use SMTs to tokenize what they already know and who they know. 

>you consume, and earning is just a bonus that happens because you are here.

Yep, consumer rewards are a big draw, even though they might not be a big earner for anyone. I think once people try, they might actually just have fun in the process of collection, like Farmville :D

>and while they are learning all of that, they will see what is the best for them to do on hive.

I agree with this too. There is a lot of value in just the learning through doing.
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@bil.prag ·
$0.07
i still suck at a lot of crypto knowledge but if i did not discover steem at the beginning of 2018 i would know nothing about it. I knew about btc and it going crazy but i would most probably not be in to it, because it is a pure investment. you can hodl or trade, not a lot of people are into it. i like hive because i use it every day, it is not just something that stays in my wallet waiting for better days.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@cranium ·
$0.07
>Who am I to get paid for my random amateur nonsense?
That is rhetorical - I am no one. As are we all.

After these words, I immediately remembered Nietzsche.

I absolutely agree with the view that if HIVE is made more popular, increasing the number of consumers on the platform will cease to be a problem.
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
Yep, movement in price will bring new users, but they need to understand that the power is to hold, stake and consume - as well as create
👍  
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@cranium ·
Keep writing about investing and new users will learn from you. If they have the patience to read your articles to the end :)
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@creativemary ·
$0.07
There is this misconception about scams online regarding earning money online and people tend to generalise. It takes education and time to convince people or massive money thrown in advertising or getting a celebrity to get on Hive. The masses are receptive to what others do. Others like in many many many.
After discovering Hive, I no longer see how people would prefer scrolling around facebook or instagram with no other purpose than watching what others do and receive nothing rather than choosing to spend that online time wisely. The downfall is the fact that in order to be active, genuinely, on Hive, you have to create and Engage. And rewards do not come instantly. People post lots of stuff outside Hive and get nothing than validation. If they would switch platforms they would win so much more. 
If the masses would be on Hive I think there would also be a lot of useless content posted with no regards to quality. And this is one thing for which any platform willing to go big has to be prepared.
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
>The masses are receptive to what others do. Others like in many many many.

Yep, I agree. No celebrity is going to arrive unless there is a setup for them to leverage the platform in ways they can't elsewhere. One of these aspects would be censorship resistance and the ability to build a tailored experience easily and cheaply that integrates a tokenized economy. 


>I no longer see how people would prefer scrolling around facebook or instagram with no other purpose than watching what others do and receive nothing rather than choosing to spend that online time wisely.

Perhaps it is the "watching what others do" that is the attraction. People are far less creative than they give themselves credit for - most are just sharers of other's creations.

>People post lots of stuff outside Hive and get nothing than validation.

"Validation" - *The currency of a generation.*
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@creativemary ·
$0.07
Maybe some of the users might end up becoming a celebrity, never know from where and from who it can all start🤔😂 Spending precious time just to get validation is a waste of energy and resources. Every minute counts
👍  
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vote details (1)
@d0zer ·
$0.08
I think the money earning aspect is not enough to attract people. Most of us earn little to nothing here. And if you see worthless posts earning 50 dollars, you just quit. But I think this is impossible to fix as long as we’re in a bear market. IF prices start to rise again, the numbers will come. I think the price of HIVE is probably the most important factor.

I told zero of my friends about Hive/Steem. I just think it’s not worth it. Yet.
👍  , ,
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@kristyglas ·
$0.03
I've told a few friends, but I can't help give them all of the warnings which scare them off 😅
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
>And if you see worthless posts earning 50 dollars, you just quit.

But this is *after* joining. Why are so many reluctant to try? 

>I told zero of my friends about Hive/Steem. I just think it’s not worth it. Yet.

When it comes to earning HIVE, which I see as one of the most imprtant factors for an account wanting to earn *anything,* the best time is when prices are down. Invest low, sell high - right?

Price brings people in, but it will never keep them.
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@felixmarranz ·
Hola, Como  la mayoría vengo de Stemmit, donde entre por la golosina de las recompensas y aun me dedico mas a subir contenido que a leer y comentar, pero si me gustaría contribuir mas y  promocionar la plataforma, por lo que solicito su autorización para compartir su publicación en mi muro y pagina de Facebook donde cuento con mas seguidores (no tantos, pero si interactuo con frecuencia)  Ademas si conoce un tutorial para abrir cuenta en hive.blog que pueda compartir, seria genial.
A la espera de su resepuesta, Atentamente
Felix.
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@holoz0r · (edited)
$0.07
I drafted a post along very similar lines, it'll be up in a few days - but it asks the question in a different way - why on Earth would you use another platform for posting valuable, often long form content? It is only in the context of one particular sub-section of Internet sub culture only, though! 
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
Looking forward to it. I think the basic answer is, "many don't know better" but even if they do, they want an audience. People are often blind to where the value lays, they chase the unicorns when they are much more likely to get traction among the horses.
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@holoz0r ·
$0.07
Mine focuses on obscurer, less trafficked corners of the Internet - like long form reviews of games on app stores for niche, older games, or video game ranking / aggregation sites - having worked as a professional writer in that space - it amazes me at what some people give away for free. 

Re that line "professionals get paid". ;) 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@hope777 ·
$0.07
> and for most, work rarely comes with a positive.

For me it is more of a blogging site than a social media platform and I see it as work as I need to earn something from it.
What makes it pleasureable is the reward, for me it's very exciting and the interaction. So you get the "social" side from the interaction. You do get to meet and know people and that is also good. 
I will be careful to refer friends, for the reward part. I did in the past and they did not made it. 
Other social media platforms are much less work and I use it to keep in touch with family and friends.
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
The reward is exciting, as it is a gamification layer - even small amounts earned create that excitement. For people looking to earn for a living here, I think that most (especially at these prices) are fooling themselves unless they live in a place where it is very, very cheap. 

>So you get the "social" side from the interaction. You do get to meet and know people and that is also good.

This generally goes a long way toward the earning. If you think about it in terms of celebrity actors, through their movies they create a relationship with the audience and in time, a studio can "bank" on them attracting viewers, because of that relationship. They don't personally know each fan, but they have generated a narrative. 

>Other social media platforms are much less work and I use it to keep in touch with family and friends.

Yes. For me, I far prefer the interaction on Hive and I would never spend this much time on Facebook, especially now that I am acutely aware of the damage they do. It is incredible that after all that has come out in the media, people still are there daily, adding their data and being manipulated through their feeds with every click and glance. 

Perhaps it is like child labor, no one approves of it - but everyone likes cheap products.
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@hope777 ·
Thank you for your thorough reply.
> For people looking to earn for a living here, I think that most (especially at these prices) are fooling themselves unless they live in a place where it is very, very cheap.

It's not very cheap in South Africa, but for us the rand/dollar exchange rate is good. We get R17 for one dollar and that help. It can help to supplement my income.
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@kodeblaccc ·
$0.08
I've thought of making a post like this, but then I didn't. I just felt I don't have the influence to make people read it, and I didn't just want it to be another post where a curation team just drops an upvote. But I'm glad someone of influence has written this, and I'm glad about the comments I've been able to read. 

I've tried onboarding people, and so far, I've encountered 2 major problems and you stated them here;

1. They think it's a scam.
2. Hive doesn't seem so social. 

I won't dwell on the first point because it's like general knowledge now for millennials. Most times platforms promising rewards for certain activities turned out to be scams.

The second point though, is where I think the major problem is. Hive isn't a social media when you put in the stereotype of other social media platforms say Facebook or Instagram. 

On those platforms, users could post seemingly anything, and if they've got good following they could get thousand or likes and hundreds of comments. Now, those are worth something on Hive not Instagram. 

But then, what's the probability that if they joined the Hive and made that same post, that they are going to get the same reaction. To be fair the probability is zero. 

On Hive we here about original content, valuable content, no plagiarism, plenty this and thats, and that's why using the platform doesn't sound appealing to casual users. 

A lot of prospective users are unwilling to put in the work that is seemingly needed on Hive. To them, the work is placed higher than the possible reward. And that's because the rewards aren't guaranteed. 

Even for me that's been on the Hive for  good period of time now, I still struggle with the negative emotions I feel when my seemingly valuable post is overlooked. I wonder how newbies will feel? 

But then again, I don't think onboarding is the major issue, sustainability, or rather making these new users stay is what should be discussed. 


I might have said a lot of rubbish, but this is my 2 cents.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@bil.prag ·
> On those platforms, users could post seemingly anything, and if they've got good following they could get thousand or likes and hundreds of comments. Now, those are worth something on Hive not Instagram.

> But then, what's the probability that if they joined the Hive and made that same post, that they are going to get the same reaction. To be fair the probability is zero.

as someone who likes your photography, and i seen that you sometimes struggle with lack of engagement (as most of photography people do here, because a lot of the times there is not that much to comment on those posts than "great photos", "really liking this"... and because we usually don't like to criticize (that i find ridiculous, if you see something that could be done better pleas tell) i think you are wrong in that part that i quoted.

try opening new instagram (youtube) account, and not telling about it to people you know. and start posting photos. how engaging would your posts be? you would need to be extraordinary artist and you will still need a push to get some decent following from just posting. seen a lot of really good artists that don't have crazy amount of followers.
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@kodeblaccc · (edited)
You are quite correct @bil.prag. Wether it's on Instagram, YouTube, or here on Hive, working is very essential to finding success on any of the aforementioned platforms. 

Putting it this way, I think the problem is the misconception that comes from how Hive is promoted. So most people think that they are entitled a certain level of value to anything they put out. 

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@kristyglas ·
> On those platforms, users could post seemingly anything, and if they've got good following they could get thousand or likes and hundreds of comments. Now, those are worth something on Hive not Instagram.

This isn't necessarily correct, they might not earn money from the Instagram company, but they can earn from sponsors, patrons, ko-fi, donations, commissions, ads etc. 

Also it seems those creators who earn well on Hive, know how to use other social media and are probably earning something, just without a dollar value on each post. 
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@markkujantunen · (edited)
>Even for me that's been on the Hive for good period of time now, I still struggle with the negative emotions I feel when my seemingly valuable post is overlooked. I wonder how newbies will feel?

This is where we differ because my theory of value says my contributions are nearly worthless. (*) That I earn anything at all on them makes me very happy. I earned next to nothing in the latter half of 2018. But I kept going because I know I would've done so anyway, only on a platform paying me absolutely nothing.

*) I've lived all my life in a 90% Evangelic-Lutheran country. It was always emphasized in all of the religious teaching I received that following expulsion from Paradise mankind was destined to earn its living through sweat and toil. Work was God's punishment for Adam's transgression. Mercy is also a big theme in the Lutheran brand of Protestant Christianity. 

Now, I'm an atheist but I'm a Lutheran atheist owing the fact that I grew up in a culture infused with Lutheran ideas by 500 years of indoctrination. The book of Moses says no pain no gain. Earning author rewards on Hive from posting something that billions of people post entirely for free is thus Paradise made possible by the Gods of Token Mechanics who created a system where value is taken from greedy speculators and given to creatives who demonstrate willingness to accept Hive and its everlasting mercy.
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@kodeblaccc ·
Well, we can't all share the same opinions can we? Life would be boring!

But then, we can learn from the minds of people, and I think your opinion is completely valid, and it kinda resonates with my comment at the end where I said I still published posts regardless of the reward I got from it. 

But my comment wasn't exactly addressing a me problem. Maybe I'm wrong to assume, but I was also putting the thoughts of other people into consideration. Newbies especially. 

For me, I've decided that I'll keep posting. And here's what I tell my friends that get discouraged from posting. Most of them are photographers like me, so I tell them or ask them rather;

What is the value you get from not posting your content on the Hive? They don't answer this question. So I go ahead to them to see the Hive as just another regular platform with the probability of earning a reward from it. If you don't post, you earn nothing. If you post, you might earn nothing too, but there's a slim chance that you would. 
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@tarazkp ·
>But then, what's the probability that if they joined the Hive and made that same post, that they are going to get the same reaction. To be fair the probability is zero.

Yes, it is a different animal and not really a social media, that is only one aspect of it. People aren't used to the idea of working on the infrastructure level. The social part could be one platform, the gaming another - all tied below by the blockchain. It is kind of like websites leveraging the internet. Most people don't know anything about web protocols - they just use one the interfaces. 

>A lot of prospective users are unwilling to put in the work that is seemingly needed on Hive. To them, the work is placed higher than the possible reward. And that's because the rewards aren't guaranteed.

I think this is part of the problem with the idea of work. For example, I see work as having value without pay - for example, cutting my lawn. I like to have a neat garden. I write my posts regardless of the reward because, I like to present my thoughts well and I enjoy writing. Because of this, the work I see as valuable has over time, built up a following who also value it. It wasn't always this way and still, none of it is guaranteed. I have taken *plenty* of downvotes over time, far more than most. 

>Even for me that's been on the Hive for good period of time now, I still struggle with the negative emotions I feel when my seemingly valuable post is overlooked. I wonder how newbies will feel?

Ever published to Medium? I have. I am a relatively decent writer, the engagement there *sucks ass.*

>But then again, I don't think onboarding is the major issue, sustainability, or rather making these new users stay is what should be discussed.

This is part of it, but this particular discussion is why they aren't here in the first place. Can't retain what we never had.
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@kodeblaccc ·
$0.07
> For example, I see work as having value without pay - for example, cutting my lawn. I like to have a neat garden. I write my posts regardless of the reward because, I like to present my thoughts well and I enjoy writing.


Well, I don't know how to say this, and I don't know how you joined Steemit and consequently Hive, but then for new users that we might want to onboard, we sell out the idea that they could get "rewarded" for their "WORK". So most of them will probably join because of that attracting factor, and not necessarily because they just want to share their work. 

I mean if that[sharing their content] was the case, why would they choose Hive or Facebook, Twitter or Instagram were they have good following?

But then, if we tell them about Hive without the reward aspect, why would they want to join?

I'm a photographer. Prior to joining Hive, I shared my photos on Instagram and Facebook. And I'll be honest to say that if I wasn't hoping to get value for those content on Hive, I wouldn't necessarily be here. Seeing as it'd have been that I was even getting value on Instagram. Because prospective clients would see my jobs and book me for sessions. 

On the Hive, I don't expect anyone to contact me for a job. I hope for it, but I don't expect it. So for me, the compensation is the fact that I could get upvoted for the content I share here.

However, I've been able to see beyond all that now, as I still continue to post regardless of the reward I get from posting. Also, I've been able to build some level of rapport with other users. 

But how many newbies will get to that level of mind development? Especially when the concept that is sold to them is; blog and get paid.

👍  
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@krazzytrukker ·
$0.07
Do you think @sidwrites  Hive newsletter is a good idea. 

[Hive Newsletter]( https://peakd.com/hive-174578/@sidwrites/hive-blockchain-newsletter#@krazzytrukker/re-sidwrites-qbkne8)

I put the link over on my BitTube channel and the other social media sites I still use. (MeWe,Minds,GAB)

Just wondering what your thoughts on it are.?
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
I think it is a good idea and more people should be trying to at least *passively* get the word out. It doesn't have to be big and grand, it just has to slowly attract eyes in to check it out. The more links inward, the better :)
👍  
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@kristyglas ·
Guest comments would be nice, so people don't have to sign up to start interacting. This would also give some idea of who actually reads the posts and what posts. 

Moreover, I feel the biggest issue is still content discovery. It's probably better than before and I like the Peaked interface over original Steemit one. However, I can't search what I'm looking for (the search worked for a week and now 2 weeks no results). On the other social media, there is always something new that catches my eyes, because the algorithms know what to recommend. I'm not saying Hive needs that, but that it's "competing" with that. Average non creator wants the content provided and not have to look for it, the attention retention is low. 
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@laurabell ·
$0.07
Reading this makes my heart sing. I feel like I am a basic white girl coming over from Facebook. I am now using (mostly, of course) HIVE pretty much exclusively. And I am getting better at switching my attention here, consuming content here, and getting my news here. It is a paradigm shift. I feel this investment here. Yes, an investment in HIVE, sure. It’s bigger than that though. It feels like an investment in myself, in my work, in something that I feel is worth something.

Why can Facebook make a profit off of me and my consumption of their media site. On those sites I did at one point think — “oh it’s free”. But it’s not. Everything has a cost and eventually the more I understood, the more used I felt. 

I know that the real investments come from when you deposit paper dollars and turn them into HIVE. I am just writing and curating right now. And it’s just a really simple process I feel like anyone can do, eventually. 

Do you see HIVE as the way of the future of social media? I know how early this is. It’s early. But I feel this power inside this place. I know I am not the only one.
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
>It feels like an investment in myself, in my work, in something that I feel is worth something.

I think if people evaluated how they spent their time and what value it generates, they would top using most social media completely in favor of places like Hive - if they did reflect, that is. 

>Do you see HIVE as the way of the future of social media?

Yeah I do, whether it is Hive or something else, I can't say, but the potential is definitely here.
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@manncpt ·
$0.07
Thank you for this nice post, I will share it with my friends! 🙃
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
You have friends? It must be a scam ;D
👍  
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@manncpt ·
Yes indeed. I met real people behind the chain... 😉
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@mariez ·
$0.06
Thank you so much @tarazkp for this inspiring and amazing post.
People join hive because they heard that you can earn by just writting and posting anything which is not the case.
Being on hive needs patience and persistance in order to grow,learn and have friends. But many people when they join and they see its not easy money they simply give up.

Personally,hive is a great platform of which if you persist and keep blogging patiently,you can earn so well from it. But for the beggining we always need the support of those who have been there for so long to gain courage that we can.
👍  , ,
👎  
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vote details (4)
@tarazkp ·
>Being on hive needs patience and persistance in order to grow,learn and have friends. But many people when they join and they see its not easy money they simply give up.

People who want easy money can play the stockmarket too and most of them will be taken to the cleaners. Very little comes easily in life. :)

>But for the beggining we always need the support of those who have been there for so long to gain courage that we can.

In my own experience, support for new accounts comes from those accounts generating decent content that at the very least has the impression of value consistently. I can only speak for myself, but I think that for long-term support, it takes long term activity and most people slip up and get complacent, lazy or disillusioned before the real support would arrive.
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@markkujantunen · (edited)
$0.07
>Don't you find it interesting that on Hive, we pay each other? You should, because this is the future of ownership and consumption - a far more direct relationship between supplier and consumer with far less middlemen. This is not the normal order of business on other platforms as while consumers pay, the platform distributed.

Not really. We have various degrees of power to direct inflation where we want but the almost all of the value of those tokens comes from altcoin speculation. Those 200 million liquid HIVE on exchanges are being traded back and forth by people trying to increase their Bitcoin position. The same goes for any alt. The rate "high" of inflation on Hive is meaningless compared to the insane price swings mostly driven by Bitcoin over a long time frame. 

As a content creator on Hive, I feel like the smartest man on Earth because I get to impose a tax on that speculative activity. There are billions of social media users at least 10% create content that is just as good, in my estimation, most of whom would be too scared to join Hive whatever idiotic reason among those mentioned by @tarazkp. 

My reaction to that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKmfHOPf3YU
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
You don't find it interesting? Or you don't think having a direct relationship between consumer and contributor is valuable?

>There are billions of social media users at least 10% create content that is just as good, in my estimation, most of whom would be too scared to join Hive whatever idiotic reason among those mentioned by @tarazkp.

I am not sure about this sentence, so will ask for clarification :)
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@markkujantunen · (edited)
$0.07
I do find it interesting that we have such power over each other's rewards. 

But I wonder if the rewards are too conspicuous on many front ends for the reason you mentioned. PeakD does not show dollar values but the Hive Token Unit value, which is an approximation of the dollar value a post is worth in total followed by a symbol that is not the dollar sign. That's definitely a step to the right direction. I wonder if people would be less comfortable if you had to click something or hover the mouse pointer above something to see the rewards.

Speaking of the quality of my content, there are millions of extremely prolific content creators of Quora, for instance, who put out quality answers all the time. I'm in a Facebook group for Finnish hobby photographers and many of them publish stuff as good as the best on Photography Lovers here. 
👍  
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@meesterboom ·
$0.08
It's a complicated beast. To start with the fact that no one is here doesn't help. People do like the polished and pretty where their friends are. They often don't want to post to strangers, especially if it's something heartfelt or personal. 

Then you have the image, what can be posted here? Long form content? Serious writing? A lot of people literally want to write fluffy things about finding a penny under their sofa. They look here and see serious blogs, often about the platform itself or crypto. It's a daunting thing for them.

And then, as you state, the money thing. They see it, they want it, they don't get it, they rage quit.

But in the main, I think the lack of focus is a biggie. What are we? A blogging platform or social media? We truly need to know who we are and be sure of it to attract users. Yeah, it can be tweaked through various front end but they don't know either.
👍  
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@holoz0r ·
$0.02
> And then, as you state, the money thing. They see it, they want it, they don't get it, they rage quit. 

And they go back to their not-all-monetised platforms where they're datamined without any recompense at all! 
👍  
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@meesterboom ·
They do, it's so ridiculous!!
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@novacadian · (edited)
>And they go back to their not-all-monetised platforms where they're datamined without any recompense at all!

Ask the Korean Whale, who tried to bring calm to the pre-fork tension, if they would rather be data mined or fucked in their blow hole by the *V.22.2 Cabal*?
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@pitboy ·
Totally agree with you. What are we? I see many posts with just a photo and few text (like Facebook status) earning decent income. And a well researched article is getting nothing. 
We need to be sure, Hive is a blog like Medium? Or social media site like Facebook?
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@por500bolos ·
$0.03
> What are we? A blogging platform or social media? We truly need to know who we are and be sure of it to attract users.

And certainly [¿Where are we?](https://hive.blog/hive-173737/@por500bolos/ask-the-hive-where-am-i) also. Without have those things well clarified in first place, the beast turns out to be even more complicated and thorny as to know from where exactly to take it to promote or marketing it to our family, friends and acquaintances without the risk of being accused afterward of have submitting them to unnecessary pricks and pain. };)
👍  
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@meesterboom ·
We can all do without the unnecessary pricks!!
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@tarazkp ·
$0.03
>To start with the fact that no one is here doesn't help. 

A conundrum for sure :)

>They look here and see serious blogs, often about the platform itself or crypto. It's a daunting thing for them.

Yes and even though the other does exist, it doesn't *usually* get rewarded. They are here for rewards. 

>And then, as you state, the money thing. They see it, they want it, they don't get it, they rage quit.

Because once they do try and eventually see shit being rewarded... :D

>But in the main, I think the lack of focus is a biggie. What are we? 

I think this is where application gateways have to help. User swill know the application and sign up under that premise. They don't need to know the entire ecosystem, or Hive at all. "Powered by Hive" might be the only reference. They will still have a Hive account and earn HIVE/SMT - but don't need to be in the firing line of the entire ecosystem.
👍  
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@meesterboom ·
$0.10
I really do see the gateways as being crucial. Splinterlands doesn't require knowledge of the platform. Gets hoping dapplr is all that we have been hoping for and more!
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tobetada ·
$0.02
a personality crisis, that's probably pretty accurate. Hive is definitely a mix, and perhaps there is value in that as well. But I somehow doubt that we will ever surpass instagram of fb, their sites are just too well made and to be honest blockchain technology actually makes user experience a lot worse. 

Perhaps we have to realize that we shouldn't compete with these apps, but are something completely different: we have the value of decentralization, uncensored content, earning from posting etc. I think many people just haven't made the connection with these values. But as the recent censorship campaigns by youtube and twitter have shown, I think a lot of people are willing to start some place else new
👍  ,
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@meesterboom ·
They are willing to find something new that's for sure but am Instagramer will find little to interest here. In fact might find themselves on the wrong end of a downvote or two.

I agree though, we shouldn't compete but we should know our USP for the masses. Or at least slightly more masses than we have now :0)
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@midlet ·
$0.07
These are exactly the sorts of things I'm thinking about constantly and I think you're pretty spot on on all points. I've onboarded a ton of people. Different demographics. Some what I would call "content creators" and some that aren't. Some that are very technically literate and some that aren't. 

I have a lot more trouble getting artists to try Hive than I would imagine I would. Also, when I do get them to try, retention is also really difficult. It's not because of rewards either because if I onboard someone, I make sure they get support. I think it has a lot to do with the social proof. 

At least from the artist perspective I think that they care more about peers seeing their work than money, and I think that while the way to look at it SHOULD be a comparison to making nothing, which is what you'd get posting anywhere else. The experience becomes, this person made that, and I made this, which ties into the whole seeing how much people are making.

There's a whole complex system here and from day 1, there is zero chance you will understand it all. I see people I know that have been here for months or years randomly say something that shows they have no idea how some things work, so...yea, we've got our work cut out for us.

The other part of this that depresses me sometimes is that I think things like this, which can all be umbrella'ed under UX(user experience) are things that a lot of people working on Hive are not thinking about, not knowledgeable about, not understanding the importance of etc. I still feel like it's what's going to make or break us and not enough people are aware of that.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
>I think it has a lot to do with the social proof.

It is a funny thing because an artist here can essentially be part of building their future market and live on the cutting edge -isn't that where artists like to be?

>The experience becomes, this person made that, and I made this, which ties into the whole seeing how much people are making.

There are a few comments where I and others mentioning putting the payouts behind even a click, do you think it would help from a UX perspective?

>there is zero chance you will understand it all.

It take a lot of time and energy as well as an appetite for being uncomfortable in areas one normally doesn't play.

 >I see people I know that have been here for months or years randomly say something that shows they have no idea how some things work

Me at times for sure. :D

>I still feel like it's what's going to make or break us and not enough people are aware of that.

Part of the issue in this area is that most developers are looking at it beneath the surface level and most have no experience designing for average endusers, nor do they care. Good UX designers are rare and even if one develops a good experience, it still has to check into the other technical boxes and - *Get used.*

thanks for dropping by. :)
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@mjmarquez4151 ·
Sabes que me puse a pensar luego que leí tu artículo donde hablas que te parece extraño que no haya más personas en Hive, dónde hablabas del internet. 
Ciertamente en mi país Venezuela existen algunas limitantes en cuanto al internet, pero también muchos tenemos la suerte de poder disfrutar de él, yo empecé a publicar sobre Hive en mis redes sociales, instagram, Facebook… para ver qué pasaba. Y obvio si alguien lee es porque tiene internet o bajo costo o tiene el dinero para pagarlo, cuando me preguntaban sobre “HIVE” les indicaba como eran las cosas por aquí, pero enseguida me preguntaban “cuánto dinero tenían que invertir, o cuánto me ganaría yo por invitarlos”. 
Entonces sí existen otros factores además del internet que impiden que más personas se sientas atraídas por llegar aquí. 
Haciendo una retrospección a mí también me paso, cuando inicie mi cuñada me explicaba sobre steemit y no entendía nada, ahora no es que entienda mucho, aún existen cosas que debo aprender, pero sin el apoyo de ella hubiese desistido al verme frustrada por no comprender el funcionamiento.
>You know I started thinking after I read your article where you talk that you find it strange that there are no more people in Hive, where you talked about the internet. 
Certainly in my country Venezuela there are some limitations regarding the internet, but also many of us are lucky enough to be able to enjoy it, I started to publish about Hive in my social networks, instagram, Facebook... to see what was happening. And obviously if someone reads it is because they have internet or low cost or have the money to pay for it, when they asked me about "HIVE" I would tell them how things were here, but then they would ask me "how much money they had to invest, or how much I would earn by inviting them". 
So there are other factors besides the internet that prevent more people from being attracted to come here. 
Looking back, when I started my sister-in-law explained to me about steemit and I didn't understand anything, now I don't understand much, there are still things that I have to learn, but without her support I would have given up when I was frustrated for not understanding how it works.
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@novacadian ·
$0.06
>Why **wouldn't** someone join Hive?

**As a regular user** : Because you are giving credibility to the token grinding *V.22.2 Cabal* at the top of this pyramid for the crumbs you will receive from what is left of the reward pool.

**As an investor** : You would have to be out of your fucking mind to trust your tokens to the *V.22.2 Cabal* who have frozen accounts and changed the blockchain's history by removing funds from HIVE accounts during the blockchain's resync by using the Orwellian use of the term *airdrop*.

Look it up!

https://www.investopedia.com/tech/cryptocurrency-forks-vs-airdrops-whats-difference/
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
New chain, new rules I figure.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@novacadian ·
>New chain, new rules I figure.

Bullshit. Things are named in science to be able to discuss issues concerning them. You don't just claiming black is now white. Well the *V.22.2 Cabal* does because they know most users have no fucking idea what a blockchain even is. They can even get away using the narrative of *decentralisation*. How did all that work out for HIVE?


![hive-graph-2.png](https://images.hive.blog/DQmWZTwdCsgZH14THsMpL9P9ZeS9QHKzHrCwDJDPzjXv9Qa/hive-graph-2.png)
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@palikari123 ·
$0.61
I have never commented on one of your posts, so this is the first time and it's not going to be pretty.

Some people around here, are just never going to get it. You just keep preaching and regurgitating the same things over and over again, while being completely oblivious to what most people really think. I hope you realise by now, that people are not interested in spin. They have eyes and can see some of what goes on around here. They don't think or have certain opinions, for no reason at all. They see things from an outsiders perspective, which some of you will never address adequately or honestly. But you guys are just not interested in listening. You are only interested in telling everyone how and what it should be like around here. Some of you think that only you know how to run a successful blog and what people want to read or hear, because you have a big influence on this platform. You live in a privileged bubble on this platform for various reasons, so that means that you really don't want to know, unless it serves your self-interest directly. 

If you guys (the influencer's on this platform) don't start actually listening and understanding the average person from the 'other side' (and stop telling them they are constantly wrong and not entitled to anything), then this place is going to clear out and is doomed to fail - just like Steemit did...and unlike what some of you think, it's not only just because of Justin Sun either.



I will now say goodbye.....

👍  , , , , , , ,
👎  
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vote details (9)
@abh12345 ·
$0.07
> I will now say goodbye.....

Please do.

![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/abh12345/eu2Tg5kE-image.png)

This comment was left after I wished another user well after illness.  Fucking prick.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
Jeez...
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@markkujantunen ·
You should know that @tarazkp is one of the Steem/Hive influencers actually successful at onboarding dozens of people. Most of those people have fallen to the wayside but I recall many of them being active users and contributors until the end of 2018. He's probably got the best track record of all active onboarders that I know personally. 

By the way, you really added nothing to the conversation. You threw a generic accusation of Hive inluencers "not getting" what outsiders think while not elaborating at all what you think it is that they're oblivious of.
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@novacadian ·
$0.03
>By the way, you really added nothing to the conversation. 

My take on what he is adding is don't be so cruel as to introduce your friends to a pyramid scheme known as HIVE, but you probably feel the same about my input.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@palikari123 · (edited)
You poor little slave. You are so gullible, that you continue to drink his sales pitch coolaid, even after admitting in your own comment that it is failing. You still give him credit for on-boarding users who have now gone. once they are gone, the credit ends right there. Let me repeat, when the users leave, the credit stops there. You don't continue to give someone credit, after the failure to retain them on the platform. Do you even realise that you just re-affirmed my actual point? Even after the main reason why you replied to me was because you claimed I didn't make any points? You poor poor thing, obviuosly not - because you are blinded by the sales pitch. But you will continue to return to drink from the coolaid trough, for a couple of cents worth of upvotes on a comment. That's the whole plan here. To get people like you to continuously return to their posts for "engagement" and drive all the traffic to the posts of the very very few on here. It's called marketing manipulation. lmao, so easy to fool the sheeple on here.
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@midlet ·
Well you said all that without actually telling us the big thing we're missing. Enlighten us.
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@tarazkp ·
It's a secret.
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@tarazkp ·
$0.02
>I have never commented on one of your posts

I am pretty sure you have before.

>They see things from an outsiders perspective, which some of you will never address adequately or honestly.

out of curiosity, do you think that I only live on Hive?

>You live in a privileged bubble on this platform for various reasons, 

Indeed I do

>so that means that you really don't want to know, unless it serves your self-interest directly.

And.... Bullshit.

>If you guys (the influencer's on this platform) don't start actually listening and understanding the average person from the 'other side'

Fair enough, what would that be? I tend to talk to a lot of average people on and off the platform, because that is where I spend my time, being average myself.

Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation btw.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@krazzytrukker ·
$0.07
I always give the respect I receive. And I have gotten that respect from @tarazkp on many posts and comments. And several times it has been brutally honest, no spin. So I gotta call bullshit also. 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@palikari123 ·
Ok **Thanks for proving my point**. Tell your cock sucking faggot circle-jerking mother fucking coward wanker boyfriend abh fuckface to actually go fuck himself. He flags my comment from a memo like a fucking coward little bitch, and then tells me to fuck off. You people are fucking pathetic, and then you wonder why the place is dead.

#### Look in the fucking mirror you arrogant wankers. Take a good look around and see how you are wrong.

#### Point proven cry babies, because you cant handle ***any*** type of criticism. Good luck with your circle jerking fuckers. Now you can downvote me too cry baby.

I'm tired of getting constant hate thrown my way from a gang of pigs that I've had to deal with on this platform. I have been constantly downvoted, deliberately attacked for 2 years in this place. I've been deliberately stolen from, colluded against from ***his so-called friends***, but all he can say is leave.
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@yuriy4 ·
$0.04
Thank you very much for the fair and bold comment. I really liked your thoughts. I wish you success and all the best.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@papilloncharity · (edited)
$1.55
professionals get paid, not amateurs.

That is our problem here. Two guys that I invited, the one is fairly computer literate and the other is just an ordinary guy like me. Both have a strong Facebook presence and they could do well on Hive.

But! The one struggled to get in at his first try and he never bothered again. The other told me that crypto was too difficult and he didn't have the time for all the intricacies.

I think that there is a lack of incentives to hook newbies and like I said before, Hive has to become more friendly. 
👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@beehivetrader ·
I agree on this point. 
I asked many people to use Hive, and build a community here.
90% of them didnt understand it well enough,
they got confused with everything, struggled for sometime and gave up :(
though most understood the concept and really appreciated, they said it would have been great if the platform was more like "Noob friendly".
I hope one day Hive becomes something like noob friendly!
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@papilloncharity ·
A good name that; "Noob friendly".
Problem is that people don't like to struggle and many don't have any persistence. But yes, agreed, something needs to be done!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@kingfadino ·
Clear step-by-step instruction without too much of "blockchain things". So newbie can understand it as get paid to post any content.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@papilloncharity ·
Step-by-step is the answer my friend!
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@kodeblaccc ·
> I think that there is a lack of incentives to hook newbies and like I said before, Hive has to become more friendly.

My thoughts exactly. I don't think Hive is newbie friendly. I'm still quite a newbie myself, on the Hive. Although I've had good experience on Steemit.
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@active-truth ·
I tried registering on hive but must admit it was difficult, waited for my keys like anyone else but had nothing come through. I refuse to pay for it especially when I have no clue about this site really and was asked to try it out from a friend. 
As my keys password didn’t come through , he set me up with a account. 
I love the fact that you can do what you normally do on others platforms and get paid even if it’s minor , makes perfect sense to me . As I’m still learning and understanding  how this all works ,I’m  finding it very interesting.
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@papilloncharity ·
Well at least you have some steemit experience, but I am talking about those that have absolutely no experience. If we struggle at times, imagine how they struggle.
properties (22)
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@tarazkp ·
I think there are plenty of incentives, but perhaps most people are yet to understand them. For example, censorship resistance and the ability to buy a subscription for lifetime membership and value. It isn't obvious at first though.
properties (22)
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@cryptoandcoffee ·
$0.07
Removing HBI which it basically is on hold for new accounts right now. I saw a comment on discord and they have 25 HBI and single figures Hive yet they are being down voted. Not great as this was our building tool for new accounts.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@novacadian ·
>... censorship resistance ...

Are you serious? After the outragous manipulation of the blockchain during the resynced fork do you really trust the *V.22.2 Cabal* with securing your data? Just the way they have walked away from loyal supporters to their many dApps on STEEM goes to show you that users mean nothing but more token grinding to the *V.22.2 Cabal*.
properties (22)
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@papilloncharity ·
$0.07
Well maybe all of these things must appear first up so that it can inspire some confidence methinks!
Many people are nervous and may I say even doubtful at their first attempt and the "scam" thought is uppermost in their minds!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@papilloncharity ·
$0.12
Oh! Another BIG word here is disappointment.

One works hard to create a great quality post. Opens it the next morning in high hopes to see only a piddling amount on the post. Then has a look at other posts with higher values and realizes that one is not connected. One feels unvalued and despondent.
I think my name is "One" lol.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@bil.prag ·
i thought that many times in my 2 and a half years here. but then i really think about all other social media and see that it is not connected anywhere. i bet you can think of decent amount of people that are earning a lot on youtube and you think their content is crap, and also for sure know people that are posting and you think how are this people not earning anything.
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@papilloncharity ·
Yeah agreed, it can certainly mess with ones head.
I think the trick is to just shut our eyes and to continue blindly until it all sorts itself out. When that is will be another question:)
properties (22)
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@kodeblaccc ·
$0.02
Again. You hit the nail on the head here.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@papilloncharity ·
Thank you!
properties (22)
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@tarazkp ·
Yes, this is an issue, but again, it is at the "already on" level - where are the people joining to try their hands?
properties (22)
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@papilloncharity ·
$0.02
What is the "already on" level?

The people tried to join on Steemit and they will not try again on Hive!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@phgnomo · (edited)
$0.06
1 - Until grandma isn't able to create an account and use HIVE, we won't see many people using it (For those that don't take time to think: It's a metaphor about ease of use, user interface and user experience)
2 - As long as the big bois stay on their "closed club", and keep on fighting about small and petty things (specially when new and small users are on the other side of the beating), we won't see too many people staying around for long.

It all boils down to one simple word: inclusion.

edit: Also, 90% of world internet users don't care about centralized vs decentralized fight. As long as they are getting value (not only monetary value), no one cares what is under the hood.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
I am guessing you mean "is able"  - but yeah, the signup could be better. However, it also has to be somewhat secure and the entire cryptosphere has to do better in this regard. 

Not sure about the boys club, but there are users that could spend their energy better perhaps. 

>edit: Also, 90% of world internet users don't care about centralized vs decentralized fight. As long as they are getting value (not only monetary value), no one cares what is under the hood.

Sure, but look that the state of the internet and the damage "not caring" is doing to the world.
properties (22)
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@phgnomo ·
$0.07
> Sure, but look that the state of the internet and the damage "not caring" is doing to the world.

I fully agree with you, and the whole idea of decentralized systems is "black swan" that was needed to make things better.

But my point is that, the majority of the people don't care about how something works, or if something is decentralized or not...

It just doesn't have any impact on what they perceive as value.

So, what is under the hood doesn't matter to the majority of people. 

What matters is what value they are direct receiving.

People will never leave facebook, twitter, reddit, if they have to go through a lot of hassle to learn about blockchains, decentralizations, witness, and all the major concepts that attracted most of us.

What is needed to attract them is to have something that work as smooth (or better) that what already exists.

And, after some time using a platform they enjoy, everyone will eventually learn why a decentralized system is better.

We must attract them before shoving new knowledge down their throats.

> Not sure about the boys club, but there are users that could spend their energy better perhaps.

What i am saying here is about a culture change.

Big stake holders are so worried about "protecting their stake/rewards" that end up seeing every new user that do something "bad" (plagiarism, copypaste, self-votes) or even different, as a threat and act aggressively toward them, instead of new addition to the community. (there is a lot of hipocrisy here, but let's no dive into that...)

So, yeah... a lot of new users come in, try to earn something, then is kicked out because some big stake holders didn't agreed with whatever he was trying to do/say.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@schmidi ·
Boooom! 
👍  
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vote details (1)
@slobberchops · (edited)
$0.07
I have been talking to my Urbex comrade, @dizzydiscovery and he now has an account (I created it). He has logged on once to change his background and avatar.

Just a few days ago, I tried to explain what this was and got the familiar bewildered looks. I think he will give it a go, but even techy people can't take it all in and he's not one.

Look at the account that's creating the most daily new accounts, @splinterlands. The players don't know what they have.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@tarazkp ·
$0.06
It is hard for everyone at the start, tech and non-tech alike. I know lots of tech people who are "bitcoin is a scam" and haven't actually revisited it since 2011.

Do you think that the new accounts are mostly new users, or alts?
👍  
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@slobberchops ·
After the last one I found which was a scam, I'm really put off trying to help these '*new users*'. I think they are mostly bullshit accounts. If I find a real one, it's unusual.
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@starstrings01 ·
$0.07
Presently, I try my best to tell everyone around me about hive but I don't bring them in without getting to know what they need to know about hive.

![Screenshot_20200608094323.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/starstrings01/yM3g55ou-Screenshot_20200608-094323.png)

![Screenshot_20200608094301.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/starstrings01/3KqYx9OZ-Screenshot_20200608-094301.png)

These pictures above are what I first share to my friends to tell them about hive.

And you won't believe I have shared the info to over 100 people in my contacts but only successfully registered 16 people who had also made an introductory post.

As I said earlier, I prefer telling them 100% of what they need to know about hive they come in and I will try share some information of how I have done that on my blog today.

Reason why I do that is because, I believe hive is quite complicated. So introducing them to register before knowing what they are going to face in hive will just make them end up creating an account and leaving it domant.

Many of the people that I have shared the news of hive still few reluctant to join because of the high rate of social media scam in my country Nigeria, and I don't blame them they should be scared. I was even scammed this past month over one online investment platform that I thought was legit because they paid few people. The foolish me went to invest my school fees into it 😅😅 and even borrowed money to invest. That period I haven't known of hive and have left steemit since 2018.


Anyway, I will just keep doing the best I can do to onboard more people into hive and also more importantly try grow my account.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@tarazkp ·
As said, the focus on earning can actually turn people away, even those who are in need. 

>The foolish me went to invest my school fees into it 

I don't give financial advice except for this: *Never invest what you aren't willing to lose completely.*

What do you think is worth more to you, your investment in this or your education?
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@starstrings01 ·
Presently my education. 

Yeah I actually learnt the lesson afterwards.

Thanks for the upvote 🤗
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@steevc ·
$0.09
Ever since I joined Steem I have been trying to persuade people they should join up, with limited success. Some of those who did join did not stick around long and some never posted.

Some of the reasons I have seen for not using it are:
* Difficulty of converting crypto to fiat.
* Complicated to use, but with things like Keychain it has got easier.
* Some politically 'dodgy' people here and getting good rewards.
* A few big accounts get most of the rewards and little guys struggle.

There is validity in these, but they could be improved on. One of the issues is that we need more people to get a better variety of content and spread of rewards, but then we need those to attract the masses. Catch 22?

I would love to see more musicians on here, but they go where their audience is (Twitter, Instagram, Youtube, Facebook). It takes time to manage each social account and the earnings may not justify that. We need the pioneers who will give it a chance. If a few start doing well and bring their fans over then we have something. One mid-level band could easily double the active users if their fans came over. Could we create enough accounts for them?

We have to face that the platform has technical and image issues. We need to find ways to improve on those. We do have something amazing, but we have seen how hard it is to gain users over the last few years. What can we learn from that?
👍  , , ,
👎  
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vote details (5)
@tarazkp ·
$0.02
>. One of the issues is that we need more people to get a better variety of content and spread of rewards, but then we need those to attract the masses. 

For sure and that wider audience has to hold some level of stake to distribute. Imagine the equivalent of 100 whales, 1000 orcas and 10,000 dolphins, 100,000 minnows who spend their time mostly in 1-3 topics. While at these prices that might not spread much value to each, at 5 or ten dollars, it makes Reddit look ridiculous :) 

Getting  there is the challenge when so many people have a short term view. This is building a different economy with people who are largely not economists or business people and people expect it to be like Keynes working with Henry Ford. 

>One mid-level band could easily double the active users if their fans came over.

Very easily indeed.  A beautiful music/something app built on Hive that integrates into other platforms might work wonders. 

>We have to face that the platform has technical and image issues. 

Technical *once the person tries* to sign up, many never get that far. Same for the image, but before sign up, it is more assumption based on past experience, experience that never had Hive. 

Lots of issues to work through. Hope you are well mate :)
👍  
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@nickyhavey ·
$0.22
@steevc @tarazkp

Have been reading the discussion here and as a (no influence) musician, for me, PeakD/Hive has pretty much replaced my Facebook artist page because I wasn't getting really any interaction on there and they kept wanting me to pay to "boost" my posts so that it would be seen by my followers... that's right, people who had already liked my page, I'd have to pay for my post to reach them...

This is one of the reasons I started looking elsewhere but even to get musicians over, as I mentioned to Steeve, those bullet points mentioned are reasons why they won't get involved, add to that, those that are aware of cryptocurrencies, they have been involved with previous crypto projects that basically failed and it's left a sour taste in their mouths. "Once bitten twice shy" were words they used.

Now, if Hive, (maybe dsound but they go quiet for 8 months at a time without any updates) can create a mobile app catered for music fans, ease of use with USPs like download music from the mobile app to their phone with sending Hive to the musician in a seamless way - AND IT ACTUALLY WORKS - that could definitely be more appetising! 

Right now, the option with Hive/PeakD is to embed music players from other sites like YouTube, Spotify and Soundcloud but if your followers are on those sites, then getting them to move across to a site they haven't heard of with all these complexities of sign-up is a big barrier.

Regarding all the other comments folks have made - I believe that there are different layers to consider with Hive. For me:

Hive itself is the blockchain/code level and token and should be advertised as a place for the developers and software whizzes to build dapps on as the base layer.

Then the second layer is the actual dapps themselves built for specific end users in mind. For example, PeakD is a bit more focused on bloggers, Splinterlands for card games, travelfeed for travel content etc... and these guys market themselves and build the interfaces accordingly to the target audience with everything running under the hood - there needs to be familiarity with sign-up processes.

Ok, think I've gone on long enough now :)

👍  , ,
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@steevc ·
I'm good. All healthy and sage here.

You can tell I am stubborn as I stick with this blockchain stuff despite the ups and downs. I have some trolls flagging me, but that won't put me off. I still want to see a real breakthrough. I may just need some tipping point to go viral.
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@travelwritemoney ·
$0.07
I hesitate to recommend Hive to non-crypto people because explaining it puts them off. The magic internet money explanation doesn't work well. 

More importantly, there are tax implications that they are piling on by participating. As there are no tools for exporting your Hive transactions, and a serious social media person would have many thousands, then you have to manually do all that. If they are successful and manage to generate considerable income, now they're seriously under the microscope for taxes. 

I really do not understand how people, in the USA in particular, are able to be so active on Hive and also have time to manually do the bookkeeping. Either they have scripted something for themseles or aren't really doing the bookkeeping. 

So, I hesitate to introduce people who don't realize the crypto implications.

Posted Using [LeoFinance](https://leofinance.io/@travelwritemoney/qbo4qu)
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
In many places, the earnings aren't realized until they are sold into fiat, which is where they pay their tax. Hive earnings themselves aren't taxable in most cases (afaik) until this point, and exchanges do have tools to export transactions.
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@travelwritemoney ·
My understanding is that Hive rewards are considered income. The price of Hive at the time serves as cost basis. When you sell, you realize capital gains/loss. You would have to track transactions both as income and as basis for capital gains or losses. 

This all becomes even more complicated with tokens like LEO. You then have to track the cost basis of LEO to calculate capital gains and also calculate income. I'm not aware of a place with historical prices for all the hive engine tokens. These then have to be converted to something else that has an off-ramp to fiat. 

All of this discussion demonstrates the mess I'd be creating in the life of somebody who decides to try Hive. Even if they don't bother tracking their transactions on Hive, they would have to deal with crypto transactions on the exchanges, which adds a layer of complexity and cost to their tax preparation. 

I would recommend Hive to an entrepreneur or somebody who is already conscientious about their finances, no problem. But, to everybody else, I'd be cursing them with accounting headaches they do not currently have or want. Most people aren't entrepreneurial like that. They want things to operate like a candy machine, you put in your coin and twist the knob to get your candy.

Posted Using [LeoFinance](https://leofinance.io/@travelwritemoney/qbo7ft)
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@wiseagent ·
$0.07
Well... I've tried to talk to a lot of friends about this possibility (since Steem), but they prefer to believe that this place is a "lie".
👍  
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@tarazkp ·
lies! All lies! :D
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