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Comparing HBD and pHBD: Which To Support? by taskmaster4450

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @taskmaster4450 ·
$81.65
Comparing HBD and pHBD: Which To Support?
There was a ton of excitement generated when the Witnesses increased **the interest on HBD in savings to 20%**.  This was for good reason.  A move like this could really propel Hive into focus.  We all saw the success of UST and LUNA.

That said, there are a host of issues with HBD.  At the top of the list is liquidity.  We have around 10 million HBD on the open market, excluding those locked in the DHF.  This means the float is very tight as evidenced by people trying to buy large chunks of it.  There are offers being made for anyone willing to sell 50K or 100K worth of HBD.

One of the solutions is the announcement of the **pHBD-USDC liquidity pool**.  Having a couple millions tokens available for purchase is crucial.  The goal there is to develop the deepest HBD liquidity pool.

For this reason, people will have to decide where to place their resources.  In this article we will take a look at the two options and define what each entails.

![image.png](https://images.hive.blog/DQmTzL5RJX2Sm465of17mLJ4kAPhx7KzKKNG1L4TWC9gLMt/image.png)
<center>[Source](https://images.hive.blog/DQmQYtgcAKqMudPiB3N9XynQNn8JpjPf7ErnoSnANHU5BAq/hbd_yields%20-%20Copy.png)</center>

# HBD In Savings

There is very little downside to this.  With HBD placed in savings, one is engaging in a very low-risk option that now pays a sensational return.

HBD is a base layer coin.  Having it deposited into savings eliminates dealing with any third party.  All activity is done directly on-chain, through one's own wallet.  Nothing leaves the ecosystem.

At the same time, the 20% APR is **paid out in HBD**.  One is earning the same coin as is deposited.  Obviously, this created more HBD, which the market sorely needs.  From this perspective, it is helping out distribution.

In the world of Decentralized Finance (DeFi), 20% APR might seem like nothing.  However, bear in mind that is an outstanding return.  This is like 40 times (or more) what a savings account in the traditional banking system pays so it si not to be scoffed at. This was the [annual return Warren Buffett](https://leofinance.io/@taskmaster4450le/now-everyone-on-hive-can-be-warren-buffett) used to become the richest person in the world at one point. 

What this option does not really help with is the liquidity problem.  Over time, producing 20% on the HBD put into savings will expand the distribution.  However, it will take a long time.  Nevertheless, each new coin created does help.

The key with HBD is savings is **low-risk, strong return**.

# pHBD On Polycub

This is a development that is designed to target the **liquidity** issue.  To start, we have to mentioned, anything placed in the pool does NOT generate HBD as a return.  Instead, the payouts are in the native token to that applications, POLYCUB.

We are seeing the bridging between the Polygon and Hive chains taking place.  It is a big step forward to allow easier access to Hive.  Polygon is gaining in popularity and accessing the EVM forks is always a good idea.

There are some additional risks with the pHBD option.  Since we are dealing with a second layer solution, we are introducing **third party risk**.  No longer are the tokens on-chain.  Instead, they are going to be in "wrapped" form.  Each HBD will be swapped out for a pHBD.  This is done all the time so it is nothing to fret about.  The key is that one needs to trust the Leofinance team and their platform.

Another element that is added is the **price volatility** of POLYCUB.  Unlike the HBD in savings, the return on the pHBD vault is done in the native token.  Hence, one is taking on the risk of POLYCUB price movements.  This is compounded by the fact there is a 90 lockup before claims.  Anything that is taken out before that is subject to a 50% penalty.

Which brings us to the return.  Since we do not have the details, we can only speculate based upon numbers we saw tossed around.  What we do know is that the return on pHBD will be higher than the savings on Hive (30%-40% APR was mentioned).  This makes sense since people need to be compensated for the additional risk they are taking.

Of course, the 50% penalty on claims has to be factored in if someone is opting for that.  We might want to point out that, with the price of POLYCUB being so low, there is the opportunity for the return actually to be a lot higher.  If POLYCUB increases in price during the 90 day lockup, one could actually come out way ahead.  This is adding an element of speculation which might appeal to some people.

At the same time, we would be remiss to overlook the fact the price could head down also.

While this does not directly generate more HBD, it is seeking to solve the liquidity problem.  That said, there will be more HBD produced as **a portion of the pool will be placed into savings**.  Part of the HBD that is swapped in will be used to generate the 20% return.  Some will have to remain liquid, say 50%, for people swapping.  However, anything above that can be deposited into savings, helping to create more HBD.  Ultimately, these payouts will be swapped into pHBD and deposited into the LP, further helping the liquidity.

The final component is that your money is always available to you.  The 50% penalty does not mean that the funds are locked up.  If one chooses, he or she can pull out the payouts along with the money in the pool.  This can be done at anytime.  With HBD savings, there is a 3 day period before the funds can be accessed and interest can only be claimed every 30 days.

# Which To Support

There is no right or wrong answer here.  It basically comes down to the individual and one's **risk tolerance**.

HBD in savings is less risky.  The return, however, is going to be better in pHBD.  One produces more HBD while the other is meant to help with the liquidity issue.  In my opinion, both will work out well in the end but it is up to each to gauge his or her own investment preferences.

The goal is to get 2.5 million in pHBD in the **liquidity pool**.  This is to serve as an easy way for people from the outside to get involved with HBD.  By purchasing it out of the pool and then swapping it over, one can then get involved with the 20% on-chain.  For people who are playing with large sums of money, this is a welcomed idea.

It is always nice to have options, especially when they pay a very strong return.  Whatever people choose to support, the important thing is to start thinking about **HBD** (or pHBD) and how you can implement it into your portfolio.

All of this will ultimately help Hive a great deal.

What are your thoughts on each of these options?  Which has benefits, or drawbacks, that will influence your decision?  Let us know in the comments below.

___
If you found this article informative, please give an upvote and rehive.



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vote details (619)
@acesontop ·
$0.08
RE: Comparing HBD and pHBD: Which To Support?
I'm currently into HBD savings. Feels too tempting to be left out. Polycub seems promising though that's for sure, but I'm too dumb for DeFi.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
It does present a great option for people.  How many jump over remains to be seen.  I have a feeling there will be many who do both.

The first goal is to see how quickly we get to 500K HBD.  That will be the first level where we will know it is strong.

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@astrolabio ·
$0.08
It is an important leap for any ecosystem that our HBD are interacting in another chain,

Without a doubt, this will add a lot of value to our base chain.

Personally, I'm curious so I would like to try both ways of staking my HBD
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@taskmaster4450le ·
Not a bad approach.  Staking in both places makes a lot of sense.

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@bozz ·
$0.08
I have been putting my rewards into the HBD savings for a while now.  I will probably just leave that as it is and try to hit a target number with some zeros after it.  Once I get there I am going to move my future HBD into PHBD.  I think I might pull some of my assets from the WAX blockchain and move those into PHBD as well.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
$0.05
The idea of pulling in assets from outside is a good one.  We will see how many people do that.  I have some money that I can do that with.

That is my plan anyway.  Now to figure out how to get from Coinbase to Polygon.

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@bozz ·
I know that you can buy MATIC on Coinbase because I have been doing a monthly buy for the past year or so.  You might be able to trade into MATIC.  The problem is they hold that MATIC on the ETH side of things so you are going to have to pay to get it over to Polygon.  I can't remember now what bridge I used to move my stuff.

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@steemstreems · (edited)
It's not my favorite, but I use Hotbit frequently for similar.  Just swap your assets on coinbase to USDC, then USDC to Hotbit.  Once on Hotbit, trade USDC to USDT then USDT to MATIC.  Hotbit allows you to withdraw Matic to POLYGON chain.

Hmmm.  Now that I type all of this it still seems like trouble.  This would work best if Coinbase allows USDT.  I assume they don't because of USDC being their coin :-(

Wait.  I just dusted off my Coinbase login and checked.  They do have USDT, so Coinbase USDT --> Hotbit USDT --> Matic.  Withdraw MATIC to Polygon chain.

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@bradleyarrow ·
$0.08
Once again thanks for the education. 

!BBH 

!ALIVE 
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@taskmaster4450le ·
$0.02
You are welcome.

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@youarealive ·
<center><p>@taskmaster4450! <b>You Are Alive</b> so I just staked 0.1 <b>$ALIVE</b> to your account on behalf of @bradleyarrow. <sub>(20/30)</sub></p>
<p>The tip has been paid for by the <a href="https://www.wearealiveand.social/">We Are Alive Tribe</a> through the earnings on @alive.chat, feel free to swing by our daily chat any time you want. <br /> <img src="https://i.imgur.com/p2WXJLn.png"></p></center>
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@cryptoandcoffee ·
$0.08
The only concern I have is if the price of polycub tanks at some point as this is not a stable. HBD being paid in HBD offers none of these risks and still 20%. I think if the APR was dropped back down again to 12% I could be enticed but not at this point in time. I am looking for an income that is safe and secure for further down the road with little to no risk involved.   

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@taskmaster4450le ·
That is what has to be weighed.  It is a problem with the off chain returns.  They are usually in a native token which has volatility with it.

This could cause a major boom or a major bust on the ROI.

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@curatorcat.leo ·
$0.09
For the moment, I think I'm going to stick with the HBD savings account on-chain. I'm really a very *tiny* investor, and the main reason for having something in savings is not just to earn a return, but to have *ready liquidity* that's much more accessible than powering down. Essentially, anything in savings will serve more as an *"oh shit fund"* than an investment... 3 days means I can pull it and use it to pay the bill if the transmission in my truck suddenly needs to be replaced... without any sort of temporary exchange risk.

But I can definitely see how pHBD would be very attractive to someone who has $50K lying around, looking to put to work.

=^..^=

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vote details (2)
@taskmaster4450le ·
I can see where you are coming from.  There are many ways to look at the equation.  We need to all judge the different scenarios to determine what works for us.

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@devpress ·
$0.08
We need both. 

USDC pairing would bring in more cashflow to the chain. Something that ethereum community can regularly tap and may help the blockchain. I personally feel that newbies and even the most advanced users need to choose as it keeps cashflow going. The rate at which Ethereum is staying strong, we can't ignore any pair of HBD on that chain.
👍  
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@taskmaster4450le ·
Yes we do need both.  I think there will be a cross section of what people do.

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@dkid14 ·
$0.08
I think to start I’ll be sticking with HBD savings. Working on bringing in some money from my traditional retirement money. 
👍  
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@taskmaster4450le ·
Yeah that makes sense.  Of course, to do that requires liquidity.  Too right now from what people are saying but pHBD should help that along.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@taskmaster4450le/re-dkid14-5te8fl)
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@dwayne16 ·
$0.08
You can't underestimate the importance of Hbd and Phbd which will help the community very well. Liquidity is very important  especially for a token that is developing like Hbd

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vote details (1)
@taskmaster4450le ·
I think the focus upon HBD is outstanding.  It will really add to the Hive ecosystem and allow us to target a different audience. 

We just have to solve the liquidity problem first.

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@dwayne16 ·
Solve the liquidity problems os the stepping stone to the greater heights of hbd

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@elyelma ·
You always bring a lot of clarity into any subject, and for that, I thank you.

!PIZZA

\- EvM

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@emeka4 ·
$0.08
> HBD in savings is less risky. The return, however, is going to be better in pHBD. One produces more HBD while the other is meant to help with the liquidity issue.

I believe both have a role to play that is beneficial to all to achieve more profit and there's more progress attached to it to change things positively

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@taskmaster4450le ·
One expands the total amount of HBD out there while the other provides liquidity along with helping to grow the float.

So both will be beneficial in my opinion.

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@finguru ·
I didn't know HBD has liquidity issues. Should have been available on more exchanges. The new pool will solve that and give liquidity providers a chance to earn one of the best DeFi assets of all time PolyCUB. 

APR on this pool will give out better returns than HBD Savings for sure. It will be a tough choice for everyone.    

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@taskmaster4450le ·
>Should have been available on more exchanges.

There isnt much to be available on exchanges.  There are only 9.5 million outside the DHF.  With 3 million in savings, that doesnt leave a lot out there.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@taskmaster4450le/re-finguru-5db7xm)
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@finguru ·
That sucks. Before we start marketing 20% APR on HBD Savings, we should figure out ways to increase HBDs supply. One or two whales could eat all that liquidity and won't even burp. 

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@finguru/re-taskmaster4450le-2sps7o)
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@gadrian ·
> One produces more HBD while the other is meant to help with the liquidity issue.

Actually, they both produce almost the same amount of HBD, since PolyCub will most likely add much of the native HBD it receives into savings for the 20% yield (leaving some liquid for people who want to unwrap pHBD). The only difference is one compounds in your wallet, the other in LeoFinance's wallet. Of course, the yield on PolyCub for those who choose to stake on pHBD-USDC is very enticing at the moment (over 60% APR), but as you said, one has to take into account the penalty (still above 20% with a 50% penalty) and volatility of the token.
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@hive-112281 ·
Because this is such an awesome post, here is a BBH Tip for you. ![](https://images.hive.blog/p/2bP4pJr4wVimqCWjYimXJe2cnCgn8E8ycTJsHnU9Pw4). Keep up the fantastic work
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@ifarmgirl ·
Thank you for this comparison. It is a little bit easier to come up with a decision after reading this. I want to try both but I have so little HBD so will see when pHBD will launch.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@ifarmgirl/re-taskmaster4450-6gmwgv)
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@jerrythefarmer ·
A lot of great points and I would just add that good advice for the undecided would be to keep some HBD liquid for arbitrage opportunities.

$5M seems like a lot but it only takes one or two massive trades to disrupt the peg.

There will be a lot of opportunities for arbitrage probably so keep your eyes open.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
That is true although the .25% fee to move from one to the other could make it difficult.  Onchain there is not stablecoin comp.  You could flip to Hive but that can be volatile also.

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@jfang003 ·
$0.08
Just wondering how adding this vault would affect the rates provided on PolyCUB because if we keep 50% locked up, that is only about 10% returns. Would this mean that the other vaults provide like 20-30% returns and reduces the APR on the other vaults? I don't know if having less liquidity on the other farms is a good thing. Then again, bonding might solve that issue though.

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vote details (1)
@taskmaster4450le ·
You are confusing a few different things.

The 50% locked up is HBD on Hive.  That is going to pay out in HBD which then will be moved to Polygon and be in the pHBD pool.  It will help with liquidity.

The addition of the pool could decrease the ROI of other pools.  Since there is a new vault that will take some of the return.  However, if the price of things increases, it brings up the return on things.

So we will see how it all unfolds especially with the weighted system that is going to be implemented.

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@joetunex ·
$0.08
Lets see what I get on PolyCub airdrop will have to equate to HBD in providing liquidity, most of my HBD will be in on chain savings though. 

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vote details (1)
@josediccus ·
You made mention of low risks with the choice of HBD, I think the average investor would go for HBD especially when they aren't really sure of what pHBD is bringing to the table. Nevertheless, it's exciting to have these choices. Hopefully, HBD will look to solving those issues with liquidity. 

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@taskmaster4450le ·
I would disagree.  Those who are familiar with liquidity pools and defi on the EVM chains will understand the pHBD-USDC pool very well.  That is where we might also get a lot of activity from, people bringing in new money.

We will see how it all goes.

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@mintfinch ·
In this case the plan would be. To leave a stash compounding as HBD. And dive I to th pHBD pool early so that you don't miss out on the initial high return, which would make sense for you to take the risk at 50% if opportunity strikes..Entering the pool late is for the long haul which every investor should do at some point . Based on the faith we have in the leo team

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@mypathtofire ·
Those 30-40% returns seem attractive. I think I want some of that action. Thanks for laying it out for us.

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@pixresteemer ·
<center>![pixresteemer_incognito_angel_mini.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/pixresteemer/8h7BBw1w-pixresteemer_incognito_angel_mini.png)</center><center>Bang, I did it again... I just rehived your post!</center><center>Week 101 of my [contest](/hive-179017/@pixresteemer/the-re-hive-contest-results-week-100-and-start-week-101) just started...you can now check the winners of the previous week!</center><center><sub>14</sub></center>
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@pizzabot ·
<center>PIZZA! 


PIZZA Holders sent <strong>$PIZZA</strong> tips in this post's comments:
@elyelma<sub>(2/5)</sub> tipped @taskmaster4450 (x1)


<sub>Learn more at https://hive.pizza.</sub></center>
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@r1s2g3 ·
I know, it is very hard and very unlikely to approve but atleast team should try a DHF proposal  to get some funding and that funding will get distributed daily to LP , so they are incentivized more and there risk is covered.

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@scaredycatguide ·
$0.08
Interesting, yeah with the 90 day lock period it takes it from being a no-brainer (in my opinion) to having to think about it.  I'd likely jump all over a bHBD-BUSD pool.

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vote details (1)
@taskmaster4450le ·
$0.08
>Interesting, yeah with the 90 day lock period it takes it from being a no-brainer (in my opinion) to having to think about it.

It is a drawback and something I think should be dropped for that pool.  It is a deterrent which is not what we want at this point.

Khal needs to get as much in there as possible.  The 50% haircut is just too much if you want to incentivize people to participate in a large way.

Basically he is offering, say, a 40% return but with the penalty, it is 20%.  Hence it is no better than what one gets on Hive.  Yes we need to help out liquidity but when it comes to ROI, altruism goes out the window.

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vote details (1)
@tobetada ·
yep @khaleelkazi please take this into consideration ;)
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@teatree ·
$0.10
I think Hive needs to do some marketing. For example the following page which comes up at the top of the search results comparing stablecoins, doesn't mention HBD at all, much less pHBD:

https://www.finder.com/uk/stablecoins

We have a long way to go before Hive dollars and their derivatives become mainstream.

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vote details (5)
@taskmaster4450le ·
That might be true but marketing something that people cant get a hold of is of no use either.  We need to get some of these basic issues resolved.

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@thecuriousfool ·
> There is no right or wrong answer here. It basically comes down to the individual and one's risk tolerance.

Totally agree.
Looking at it, I personally prefer both.
Maybe, split my HBD in savings and in the liquidity pool.

I just started putting my HBD into savings after some reading.
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@xplosive ·
$0.08
> What we do know is that the return on pHBD will be higher than the savings on Hive (30%-40% APR was mentioned). This makes sense since people need to be compensated for the additional risk they are taking.

Yes. Higher return for taking higher risk is obvious and natural.

This is the first time, when I hear about pHBD. I heard about POLYCUB a few times so far, but I am not familiar with it, and I prefer low risk anyway, so I stick to HBD for now. Play it safe. Probably this is better in long term.
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vote details (2)
@taskmaster4450le ·
$0.06
There are choices and if one is unsure, best to stick with what you know.

20% is an outstanding return.

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