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Roll Call...Are you In or Out? by thedarkhorse

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @thedarkhorse ·
$22.35
Roll Call...Are you In or Out?
Know that getting Forked has upset more then a few of you and have even heard rumblings of people planning on leaving steemit. So at this point I want to know are you In or Out?

Sure we had a completely avoidable shitshow, but was it your breaking point? I want to know who is 1 foot out the door, who is only sticking around long enough to power down, and who is still firmly here.

![pitch-fork-3068529_640.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmSGcJ8r6XynzVr8nWbKNQGmcjkKLjVD5zdmyD6jGZr3pf/pitch-fork-3068529_640.jpg)

### Where I stand
For those that care yes I was pissed off at the top 20 and Steemit Inc as they completely screwed the pooch here. But I firmly believe that there is no way they won't tweak and rework things to the point that almost everyone will be happy. 

While at first anger kicked in (and it was probably a good thing I couldn't comment) at this point I've come to accept that shit happens and now it's time to get back into the swing of things.

To be clear I am here and plan to continue efforts towards helping others with the @pifc and @minnowbuilder projects. @pifc will have a redo of week 20 and @minnowbuilder2 is currently still selling shares for another 12 hours or so. 

### But Where do Your Stand?
Please let us know where you stand and why. I good with any position and would love to hear some other thoughts on the this. Think an open friendly discussion of things can be helpful for all of us at this point.
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vote details (262)
@allseeingewe · (edited)
$0.06
![](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmVZ6YQR6WPD3rWwnaZe2kgFbAaS9SBbUp5djrkjBn3Gd8/image.png)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@bakkachu ·
$0.07
I'm in, but ....
Let's not lose track of the fact that the price of Steem, and our voting power with it, is determined by the hardcore investor who is not powered up and can sell at the drop of a hat.
I'd also like to point out that 80% of my followers are either Bots, or dead accounts, so any action that makes people leave in anger is something the regular poster is paying a price for.
So yeah, I'm in, but as what? Blogger or investor?
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@thedarkhorse ·
80-90% of everyone's followers are dead accounts or bots. That number means nothing which is why all those resteeming services are such crap. Their numbers are even higher for dead accounts because of how they got the followers in the first place.

Anyways I agree that much of our price is determined by a few investors and then the masses who buy small amounts to power up help give a little support level.  Don't think that many larger investors care about a few day bump in the road vs the long term vision. They are fine with a bunch of small accounts leaving if the larger ones stay the course. If 1000 small account sell all their steem at once it would barely be enough to raise the volume for any given day on one exchange. If one big account leaves there may not be enough people to buy up all that steem and the price could get crushed.
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@bashadow ·
$0.13
It is a near thing for me. Like most I was pretty pissed off at some of the attitudes when commenting and voting was coming back. I certainly learned of a few accounts that will never ever get a vote from me, not saying which ones, because of their post HF actions. I found it despicable that one made a post asking for votes and comments then sending those that could do nothing to his discord room while upvoting his own post and comments at 100% and I think I saw only 2 votes during those 6 hours to another account. Another is an individual that made an asinine remark and then went and did what the person I just described did, he did give a few 10% votes out to others but a lot of self votes to himself, thus that was why I made several comments about not letting the Orcas get all the rewards for that day when votes finally returned to me, even though at a very low power I found real people to vote on. 

I will be riding out the backsplash waves the next few days to see what happens, I doubt that when tcpolymath removes his delegation to me for the UA experiment that I will stay in support of a supposed Reputation System that has one of those two individual so highly ranked, so even though the votes were extremely nice and large, I do not think I will support such a failed, (in my eyes), system. 

On the plus side I think it would be a real kick in the pants to the top 20 witnesses if @fulltimegeek makes it to the top 20 and has that light blue bar to the left instead of the right indicating that it was the smaller users, that support him, and not one or two large accounts supporting him. 

During the down time, I do do a lot of looking back, especially at the HF17 issue. From what I was reading it was all about a lack of engagement that had so many people upset back then, I found it pretty ironic that this HF wanted to pretty much do away with engagement. They should not have scheduled this HF for the full moon.
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@thedarkhorse ·
I didn't watch what others were doing that closely as my time was so limited online those few days anyways. Was trying to mainly chat with others in discord when possible, but looking at how people were behaving during that time wasn't much of an option. You have me very curious now...lol

As for @fulltimegeek, I need to review my picks to see who should be replaced. Wanted to take the time to review how each appeared to react to this mess before just dropping one. Honestly don't think there are enough small votes out there to reach the top 20 without a few of the larger voters supporting you but willing to give it a try. Between all the accounts I control it's enough to give a small bump.
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@bashadow · (edited)
I am sure he will get a couple of the larger votes, but it sure would be nice to see that "smaller accounts" label on the left instead of the right. bitconnect fiasco feb for one I think that was coin.
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@bricbric ·
$0.13
I am new to STEEMIT and so far so good, but I am not going to lie. This platform and the new update is a little confusing. I still enjoy the idea of it enough that I would like to try and share on here more and grow new friendships but it seems so hard. I don't get the whole comment and post limit thing. Posting a few times a day is a lot for me but it is weird to me that they only let you do it some much and limit you. Even though the limit is a lot it is still there which I find odd. They seem to really limit some users. Do they limit other things like that for the little users on here as well? I am starting to understand the term minnow now. (Sorry, naive noobie trying to figure the HF2o out...)
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vote details (4)
@thedarkhorse ·
$0.04
Honestly the issues of not being able to use steemit and all that aren't what bother me the most about the changes made in HF20. You as a new user just said exactly what I fear others will feel. 

They complicated something that was already on the complicated side. There are to many things to figure out for a newbie and if they would have done even 1 simple focus group to test these ideas it would have been painfully clear that there are to many things for a new person to learn. 

If you have the patience to stick with it and learn the ins and outs of steemit there is potential to make a little money while meeting a lot of good people. Get involved with some communities like @pifc as there are always people around willing to lend a hand. 

Side not, Minnow starts at around 500sp up to 5000sp. Redfish is 50-500sp, and Plankton is 0-50sp. Don't worry to much about the labels, they don't matter all that much.
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@bricbric ·
Haha not gonna a lie the Plankton sounds like a bad ass title. You are so right though and it is good hearing about others trying to get together and grow as well. I most defiantly would like to stick it out and make some new friends and colleges. I will defiantly check that stuff out.
Thanks again!
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@d00k13 ·
$0.21
I am in as long as they don’t do something to break the #OneLoveDTube project. It didn’t look very good at first, afterwards it still seems like an intentional purge. As is we lost delegations and many left our trail, I have invested everything I have into the #OneLoveDTube project which isn’t much and I don’t get a whole hell of a lot in return. Basically all the hard work over the last several months has been reset and we have even had to recode our discord bots we use for curation. As of now I’m still here, no I am not impressed.

This has exposed many of the potentially fatal flaws of Steemit, many extend from the foundation only to be hidden by patchwork on the visible structures.

Posted using [Partiko iOS](https://steemit.com/@partiko-ios)
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@thedarkhorse ·
$0.05
Ok I'm going to have to look closer into your project and get a better feel for what it's about. Feel bad as I haven't taken a serious look and have meant to a couple times.

Feel free to message me on discord about it and if there is anything I can help with. Off to bed now, but will take a look tomorrow.
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@derangedvisions ·
$0.11
I am sticking around. A little hard fork cant get rid of me.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@kaliju ·
$0.21
I was busy balancing work-life so wasn't really around to get upset...plus that other thing we're working on 😉 Looks like things are back to normal now, it's as if nothing happened 👍
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@thedarkhorse ·
Sent you the specs you needed. Looking forward to seeing how this all comes together!
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@dipoabasch ·
$0.03
Well.. I'm in because I have no other place to go when my wife is sticking here too 😂 well, I got fork too and I can use that fork to learn how cool the community is and how people still keep helping each other despite of their own situation 😊 I just feel lucky, I reach my 20 SP right before the forky day and drain my VP to 1% after a testing post which made me reconsider the reset my steemauto only for the right posters, but now I saw the VP reach to 98% again in a day.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@cicisaja ·
😂😂😂 you are not allowed to leave 😂 just keep posting once a week to let the curation team has something to vote on your blog😂 and power up anytime. We never had "power down" on any of our plans on Steemit either.
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@dynamicgreentk ·
$0.08
Seems like it is all good. I felt the same way for sure. Hopefully SMTs will be a glorious addition here soon!
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vote details (2)
@emergehealthier ·
$0.11
I'm here for the long haul, the fork was just a bump in the road.  I just hope that the witness and Steemit, Inc take the time to learn from the mistakes and prevent them in the future.  It is better that it happened now instead after SMT's are added.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@shanibeer ·
$0.06
I think we also need to see how we feed into that process.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@four20 ·
$0.04
I have nowhere else to go, so I guess you guys are stuck with me.  Besides the poker is the best here!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@fullcoverbetting ·
$0.04
Just like you I was upset and pissed off.
I don’t think we should blame the witnesses because I don’t know who’s responsibility it was to test HF20!
And I do think that we can agree that it wasn’t tested at all!
I will just continue like normal and evaluate after 1 month!
Cheers,
Peter
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@thedarkhorse ·
@fullcoverbetting Top 20 witness earns currently based on today's price feed around $7,000 a month for being such. Their servers costs around $700 on the high side from what I've been told a few times. That leaves $6300 a month in income for the witness as payment for actual services. If running a server was all that is needed Steemit Inc could lease out servers around the world (for less then $700 a month if we're being honest) and witnesses wouldn't be needed.

But the witnesses have a massive responsibility of approving or denying Hard Forks. It takes a super majority to approve each hard fork. Before approving the witnesses are given access to the code on a test net and are supposed to review it and test it to make sure they are willing to approve it. They can vote No and postpone the HF if appropriate changes aren't made to fix problems with the code before launch date.

So that means the blame falls directly on the top 20 witnesses. Not one of them has any excuse (unless they voted no) as to why this was approved without proper testing. They can afford to hire someone to review the code if they are incapable, busy, or just lazy. It is part of why they are paid $7,000 a month. During times of a hard fork they need to step up and do their jobs.

All the nonsense of well this witness doesn't know code but they are a community builder is bullshit. If they care about communities they would have made sure steemit didn't kick all the small guys directly in the balls so hard most are still kneeling on the ground just finally getting to the point they can sort of move. Those small members are the lifeblood of most communities. Sorry but don't give a crap about the big fish, they have more then enough earnings each week...it's the little fish and plankton that are my concern. I will be pushing for @fulltimegeek as a top 20 witness as he gets what the job is and manages to help a lot of people...even if I am not one of them...lol.

I give absolutely none of the current top 20 witnesses a pass on their actions...or lack of actions to protect the steemit community. They have a job to do and they signed up for it. Nobody just gets nominated as a witness, you must choose this job. At $84k a year worth of steem at these low prices (was a lot more even a few months ago) they need to either learn the code, hire someone that knows the code, or stop being a witness. It's truly that simple IMO. 

Honestly the only person before all this started that I ever really saw calling out witnesses for doing nothing other then collecting a check for running a server was @berniesanders and when he did he without fail got slammed for doing so. Luckily for him he has enough VP that people can't really to much damage to him financially and there aren't a ton of people that can even effect his reputation score. Anyways I think we are about to see some changes around here in the attitude people take towards their witness voting. Know that I've had more people ask me questions about it in the last few days then in the last few months combined. 

Good thing I have a lot of RC's....this got pretty long.
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@fullcoverbetting ·
@thedarkhorse Thanks for you loooong reply :)
I didn't looked at it from this point of view. And you reply did change my opinion about it!
Guess it is time, to go over my witnesses list once again and make some conclusions.
Thanks,
Peter
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@glenalbrethsen ·
$0.03
Hey, @thedarkhorse.

I am here, but as always, if another opportunity arises that surpasses the STEEM experience, I will check into it. I'm not that happy with how things went, and I'm less happy with the fact that protocols that will be in place at some point because of the way HF 20 is working out wasn't in place beforehand. Why not? Were they deemed unnecessary? Did they think they were infallible, or that people were sufficiently doing their job?

Weeks before, I was concerned something would go wrong—I know I wasn't alone—and that concern was not met with much of anything other than, "We've got this." Some of it included more attitude than that, but whatever. I think it's readily apparent that arrogance was a part of the issue, along with a desire to push things through at any cost, and deal with the fall out.

That's basically where I'm at right now.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@thedarkhorse ·
$0.08
Oh arrogance and insistence on a date caused these issues without question.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@harvhat ·
$0.03
I'm here! at least for now. The ting that bothered me wasn't so much the fact there were unforeseen issues, it was the disconnect they had about it. Saying all was well at first, and then saying it was _only_ those that were "highly" active that were affected. Ah well, no place to go but up from here, I hope.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@lucylin ·
$0.07
I'm definitely in, but must admit that the few days off has allowed me to look at some other options that I never did before...so might mean less time on steemit (not much!lol)
But I'm 'in it', to see where it goes, that's for sure!
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@lynncoyle1 ·
$0.04
I'm *IN* fyi :)

I saw the shit storm about to begin, and I just knew it was going to contain a swirl of misinformation, angry posts, complaining, threatening etc, so I simply shut my laptop several days ago, and re-opened it today.  There are still a few shit-clouds around, but I do see the sun and common sense breaking through.  It's a new day, and like many here I assume, we'll just continue on and see what happens.

I'm not a quitter.  Never have been :)  See you Tuesday @pifc!!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@thedarkhorse ·
Never thought for a second you would bail. If you can push forward while supporting Brian in all his pain then a little Forking isn't going to slow you down. Good idea walking away for a few days.
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@lynncoyle1 ·
I've been thinking about a t-shirt my son used to have:  "Spooning leads to forking" LOL

Not much will slow me down, that's right.  Certainly not a little forking :)
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@markkujantunen ·
$0.03
Staying. Steemit Inc needs to hear that they must hire a team of test engineers.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@ocdb ·
re-thedarkhorse-roll-call-are-you-in-or-out-20181001t223611550z
You got a 51.42% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @thedarkhorse!
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@phillyc ·
$0.07
I'm definitely sticking around, I have a vision for Steem and manifesting it requires being a part of our communities. Like you say, this is a minor deviation in young technology. Looking down with the eagle eye we put it all into perspective

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://steemit.com/@partiko-android)
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@thedarkhorse ·
When you are in the middle of something it's very hard to remain objective about it. Emotions tend to get the best of us. Stepping back for a couple days put things in perspective for me. It wasn't because I wanted to be away, but life happened to get in the way at the exact time this was all happening...so gave me time to think about it a little.
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@shasta ·
$0.07
So many forking posts, need some spoons :-)
I'm sticking around, there are really good folks
on steemit, made some great friends in the year
I've been here. Rather shocking to see the train
come to a stop and sit on the tracks all out of
steem. Reloading steemworld and seeing the
lowests number ever seen on the wheel, even
more shocking lol

But with anything there is always bumps along the
road, potholes and realigning of the tracks. A few
extra rail spikes, some strikes and all is golden again!
Looking forward to the steeming years ahead ☀
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@thedarkhorse ·
The people are the key to this place. It's amazing I think at this point I could travel to almost any country in the world and would be offered a place to sleep from people I've met here over the last year plus. They really do make it worth coming back each day.

I tried so hard not to refresh steemworld for the last few days...but like always I had to do it each night. Was kind of depressing seeing no action at all. Nice seeing things start moving again.
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@shookriya · (edited)
$0.03
I was also pretty upset when the fork hit the fan,  I had just posted my magnum opus to Dtube literally seconds before it all happened.  (Tried to edit the post immediately after posting and couldn’t).  I was starting to get into a groove here and felt like my drummer had all of a sudden been knocked off the stage.  
However in retrospect, though things could have probably gone down with more transparency and better planning, I think that since what these folks are trying to do here is relatively cutting edge in a lot of respects they are bound to hit some funky notes now and then.  Comes with forging new ground.

Then again, I’m obviously a musician not a programmer so I have no idea what I’m actually talking about.  ;)

Posted using [Partiko iOS](https://steemit.com/@partiko-ios)
👍  
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vote details (1)
@thedarkhorse ·
Everything about your comment screamed musician...love it. You are completely correct in that things are bound to happen from time to time as there will be unexpected issues even with fully tested code, but in this case it was largely untested and that isn't acceptable. I'm just of the mindset that with the amount of effort they had to put into fixing their errors vs the much lower amount of effort (and stress) that would have been needed to catch and fix these things before launch that they will do better next time. 

A lot of resources were wasted by the witnesses having to load all of the patches and deal with all the questions/bitching. Most if not all of it could have been avoided if they did their job up front.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@shookriya ·
Yeah I hear that,  also just the loss of activity  because of it.  It's still kind of ghost towny around here...

Posted using [Partiko iOS](https://steemit.com/@partiko-ios)
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@slobberchops ·
$0.03
No question about where I stand, IN!

It sucked and was annoying but things and getting back to normal and STEEM is rising (like it should).
👍  
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@thedarkhorse ·
$0.04
It was beyond annoying, but except for the smaller accounts things are back to normal.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@steem-ua ·
#### Hi @thedarkhorse!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your **UA** account score is currently 3.973 which ranks you at **#3583** across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has not changed in the last three days.

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 477 contributions, your post is ranked at **#72**.
##### Evaluation of your UA score:

* You're on the right track, try to gather more followers.
* The readers like your work!
* Good user engagement!


**Feel free to join our [@steem-ua Discord server](https://discord.gg/KpBNYGz)**
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@sugarfix ·
I stood in the big fish rooms on Discord and tried to speak up for us plankton. I got a lot of "fingers in the ears" lalalala and abuse back. When I eventually was able to make a comment I replied to one of the thousands of "noobies should be investing in our platform" posts and promptly got my first ever mute. Really classy stuff.

They need to ask themselves who in their right mind would would invest in a platform full of a$£*%%ts?
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@tcpolymath ·
$0.14
I am... less in than I was a week ago? One thing that's very clear to me is that the developers' approach is not yet as suitable for recruiting outside investment as I had believed that it was. So I've canceled plans based around that until the process improves, and will be putting more of my effort toward improving the process instead. 

At the moment my pipeline for bringing more of my own money in here is frozen - it would be anyway because the exchanges are closed - and I'm unsure what direction it will be moving when they reopen. I'm giving thought to cashing out the liquid SBD in my account and changing my approach away from 100% power up of my rewards, although I'm not powering down and don't think that's very likely at the moment.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@shanibeer ·
$0.04
That seems like a wise approach. I'm no less in, my feeling is that this was a learning experience (for everyone) and some similar epiphany would have happened sooner or later and I have things I want to do here. At the same time, I agree that some of the business processes, including governance, need improving and I will be keeping an eye on that.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@thedarkhorse ·
$0.08
I understand how you feel about this and had many of the same thoughts. While I don't think they will fix their process overnight I do honestly feel this was a big enough screw up that they will adjust the processes going forward. The amount of man hours wasted trying to fix things after the fact hopefully was enough that the top 20 figure out how to test the code next time around. 

At $7k a month earnings per top 20 witness I think they can afford to have some code reviewed by competent programmers and if they don't feel that way they deserve to be replaced. Being a community builder or whatever else you want to claim you are doesn't matter when it comes to being a witness. You need to run the required servers, either understand the code yourself or hire someone that does so you can review the code and test updates before they go live, and vote for what will best help steemit grow. If those requirements can't be met then it's time to replace the top 20 with capable witnesses who don't mind saying No your shit code isn't ready to go live to ned and company, or even No your code hasn't been properly tested as you didn't provide enough time. Either way this batch of code should never have gone live.

All that said I hope that you find yourself moving back to the sticking around camp. Steemit needs people like you.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@tcpolymath ·
>At $7k a month earnings per top 20 witness I think they can afford to have some code reviewed by competent programmers

We have some good programmers here from places with low costs of living, you would think some way could be found to take advantage of that.

I strongly prefer that this be done collaboratively and publicly, however, rather than in the top witnesses' private development environments. (And Slack, apparently.) 

A big part of the problem here is the secrecy behind the process. If I had known nobody was doing code review on this from the time the hf20 commits started we'd be having fewer problems today, because I would have sat down and done some of it. (Although resource credits would probably have been my last priority, so not a *lot* fewer problems.)
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@themanwithnoname ·
$0.08
I'm here and planning to stick around. I won't be able to vote for a while still because a change in delegation rules means that I got hosed by losing one and that zapped my VP, but I'll just wait it out... again. 
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@thedarkhorse ·
$0.04
Yeah I get what they were trying to accomplish with the delegation change, but it's completely screwed up the way it's working in practice. Talked to people who had nearly full VP get zapped down massive amounts when the delegation left their account which makes no sense as the idea was to prevent people from running their VP down really low then delegating power.

It makes zero difference if I had a delegation and used it down to zero and it gets pulled back to an account at 100% as there is a 7 day cool down period which is long enough to recharge the VP on that delegation back to 100%.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@themanwithnoname ·
I believe the cooldown period changed to 5 days now. I also think that's how long it takes to recharge VP. I could be mistaken though. Regardless, it was a pain to see such a drop in my VP after working to get it up and running again. Oh, well. Nothing I can do about it except wait for it to recharge. 
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@tryskele · (edited)
$0.03
I'm here. Besides working with the best people.  I believe wholeheartedly in what we're doing. I am not giving up now.  I am just going to diversify just a bit so if I am hit with downtime where I cannot comment or upvote aI have means to still keep creating and growing.   OH, and it's week 26 do-over:D
👍  
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vote details (1)
@winstonalden ·
$0.04
I don't know much about programming, but I've been through enough neighborhood and club meetings to understand that there's a downside to de-centralization. Getting a large group of people to agree on and then carry out a course of action is not a simple task, and frankly I'm surprised the system works as well as it does. 

I'm in as I've ever been. This isn't a full time job for me. It's a place to hang out and meet new people and share a few creative projects with people incentivised to interact and react. I've got plenty of other stuff to do in the down-time.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@thedarkhorse ·
Decentralization has it's upsides and downsides for sure. But honestly that wasn't the issue IMO. 

The code that was pushed for HF20 included WAY to many changes all at once. Each Hard Fork should address one issue at a time. Then the code and it's intended effect would be clean and simple even for a non programmer to understand. To stack as many things on top of each other as this HF did was asking for a disaster. 

Glad you are still pushing on and have proper perspective on this.
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@xcountytravelers ·
$0.03
Scott and I are also staying.  We love the community here and enjoy being part of it.  Yes, we were also frustrated because we are only 45 days old and small.  It is because we are small that we are not able to comment and interact like we did before the fork.  However, we have plans and ideas so we can't give up.  Plus we have been making friends, the main reason we are still here.

There are some things that could be done to help us little guys, but I'm just not sure what.  The RC has been put into place so it gets rid of the spam and scammers, so they say.  So we just have to figure out how to work through this.  I have hope and am encouraged,  even thought I have to be less active.  
Ren.
👍  
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@thedarkhorse ·
$0.09
It's the newest accounts that I was worried about with all this. The last post about the update has me thinking better days are coming even for newer accounts. The spam really was/is an issue and needs to be addressed. Will say for sure there has been less bot activity and that is nice.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@xcountytravelers ·
Oh yes, we were really nervouse that this was going to be the end for us before we really got started.  However, we are good.  Now to build that SP and help out the community.
Re
properties (22)
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categorysteemit
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@zorank ·
$0.03
Now that RC recharging got faster and the cost of interaction much lower, I'm all in.  Without this I would seriously consider leaving the steem platform or at least not be as active as I am now.
👍  
properties (23)
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vote details (1)