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French democracy is flawed, undemocratic, winner takes it all leads to bizarre outcomes, how the party with the most votes placed third by vikisecrets

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· @vikisecrets · (edited)
$18.12
French democracy is flawed, undemocratic, winner takes it all leads to bizarre outcomes, how the party with the most votes placed third
Die französische Demokratie ist fehlerhaft, nicht unbedingt demokratisch, Mehrheitswahlrecht führt zu skurrilen Ergebnissen, wie die Partei mit den meisten Stimmen nur den dritten Platz erreicht hat.

Das Mehrheitswahlrecht spielt normalerweise der stimmenstärksten Partei in die Hände und hilft dieser eine absolute Mehrheit zu beschaffen. Das ist bereits umstritten.

Der Mechanismus funktioniert vereinfacht so, dass die Partei mit den meisten Stimmen in einem Wahlkreis alle Sitze zugesprochen bekommt.

In Frankreich ist es noch eine Spur komplizierter, erreicht beim ersten Wahldurchgang keine Partei die absolute Mehrheit gibt es eine zweite Runde, mit den zwei stimmenstärksten Parteien.

Allerdings dürfen beim zweiten Durchgang auch Parteien antreten, die mehr als 12.5% der Stimmen bei der ersten Runde erhalten haben.

In dieser zweiten Phase kommt es normalerweise zu taktischen Tricks, die regierenden Parteien versuchen mit Wahlbündnissen Koalitionen gegen Rechts zu schmieden, damit rechte Parteien keine Mehrheit bekommen.

Diesmal hat das aber nicht ganz so wie geplant funktioniert. Macron hat sich verspekuliert. Die Neue Volksfront, eine extrem linke Partei hat nicht mitgemacht und ist als dritte Partei gegen Macron und Le Pen angetreten.

Das Ergebnis ist jetzt, dass das Bündnis von Le Pen zwar die meisten Stimme bekommen hat, aber die Volksfront die meisten Sitze im Parlament.

Und der abgeschlagene Ensemble von Macron ist plötzlich zweiter geworden, kann aber trotzdem nur schwer eine Koalition bilden.

Mit Demokratie hat das Ergebnis nicht mehr viel zu tun, sondern es ist mehr ein Resultat des eigenartigen Wahlmechanismus.

Mathematisch betrachtet kommt es beim Mehrheitswahlrecht zu Rundungsfehlern, die sich im Worst-Case aufsummieren und dann zu solchen skurrilen Ergebnissen führen, wenn es keinen eindeutigen Gewinner gibt oder mehr als zwei etwa gleichstarke Parteien beim zweiten Durchgang antreten.

Was sagt ihr dazu? Ist ein Mehrheitswahlrecht noch zeitgemäß oder unterminiert es das Vertrauen in die Demokratie?

## France Elections 2024

![image.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/vikisecrets/Eo1uxY5Hz1svR32mnP4fjwyNVRhpM3qBm7RuJCDjVwSXUrvVqSPMDUxYxvhNi5QLnrX.png)

https://x.com/PeterSweden7/status/1810270921548087704

## French Parliament Election Result 2024 Popular Vote vs. Seats (Second Round, Final Result)

|Party|Votes|Votes %|Seats|Seats %|
|-|-|-|-|-|
|National Rally (Le Pen)|10,109,044|37.06%|142|24.61%|
|New Popular Front (Melenchon)|7,039,429|25.80%|180|31.20%|
|Ensemble (Macron)|6,691,619|24.53%|159|27.56%|

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_French_legislative_election#Results

## France's Stunning Election Results Explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWySZV-xzFQ

Video credit: [TLDR](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWySZV-xzFQ)

## English

French democracy is flawed, not necessarily democratic, here is why.

Majority voting usually plays into the hands of the party with the most votes and helps it to obtain an absolute majority. This is already controversial.

In simple terms, the mechanism works in such a way that the party with the most votes in a constituency is awarded all seats.

In France, it is a little more complicated: if no party achieves an absolute majority in the first round of voting, there is a second round with the two parties with the most votes.

However, parties that received more than 12.5% of the vote in the first round are also allowed to run in the second round.

Tactical tricks are normally used in this second phase, the ruling parties usually trying to forge coalitions against the right with electoral alliances so that right-wing parties do not get a majority.

This time, however, it didn't quite work out as planned. Macron has made a mistake. The New Popular Front, an extreme left-wing party, did not participate and ran as a third party against Macron and Le Pen.

The result is that although Le Pen's alliance won the most votes, the Popular Front won the most seats in parliament.

And Macron's defeated Ensemble has suddenly come second, but is still finding it difficult to form a coalition. Chaotic result.

The result no longer has much to do with democracy, but is more a result of the peculiar electoral mechanism.

From a mathematical point of view, majority voting results in rounding errors that add up in the worst-case scenario and then lead to such bizarre results if there is no clear winner or more than two parties of roughly equal strength compete in the second round.

What do you think? Is a majority voting system (winner takes it all system like in the UK or France) still legitimate or does it erode confidence in democracy?

*Live your Secrets and Hive Prosper* 🍯

xx Viki @vikisecrets
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@adese ·
$0.08
The world of democracy is quite getting quite corrupt right now as 
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@annievictory ·
There is nothing like majority voting over here because our votes doesn't count anymore .
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@beesmartblog ·
$0.08
Wenn das Verhältniswahlrecht von den Parteien so manipuliert werden kann, dass es nicht mehr der Mehrheit des Souveräns entspricht, dann stimmt etwas nicht mit dem Wahlsystem. Ich war früher auch ein Anhänger des Verhältniswahlrechts, jetzt bin ich für das absolute Mehrheitswahlrecht. Das schafft eine klare Mehrheit. Und wenn die Regierungspartei für ihr Programm keine Mehrheit mehr bekommt, dann ist sie auch abgewählt. In Deutschland hört man oft den Spruch: Wenn man A sagt, muss man auch B sagen. Nein - in einer Demokratie kann man A sagen und wenn man merkt, dass A falsch ist, dann muss man NICHT B sagen. Das ist Demokratie.

Außerdem ist aus meiner Sicht das Abwählen wichtiger als das Wählen, denn nur das garantiert auch Veränderung. In der DDR konnte jeder wählen, aber er konnte den Sozialismus nicht abwählen - was nützt da die Demokratie. Erst als die Menschen auf die Straße gingen, wurde der Sozialismus abgewählt. Inzwischen kommt es mir in Deutschland so vor wie in der DDR - man kann wählen, aber die globale Agenda (Migration, EU, WHO, NATO) kann man nicht abwählen, egal was man wählt. Aus meiner Sicht muss man das System wieder vom Kopf auf die Füße stellen und das nicht nur in Deutschland, sondern in vielen sogenannten westlichen Ländern - vielleicht müssen die Menschen wieder mehr auf die Straße gehen. Z.B am 3. August in Berlin😉
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@vikisecrets · (edited)
Mehrheitswahlrecht bevorzugt zwei Parteien-Systeme wie in den USA/UK, Vorteil ist eine Partei kann mit absoluter Mehrheit regieren, auch wenn sie weniger als 50% der Stimmen bekommen hat. Wenn es keine klare Mehrheiten gibt, kann das System aber wie in Frankreich auch zu Chaos führen. Sehe den größten Vorteil der Demokratie, dass es zumindest ab und zu zu einen Wechsel der Regierung führt, Personen werden öfter ausgetauscht und verhindert einen Diktator, dafür gibt es wieder andere Mächte wie Konzerne/Oligarchen/Milliardäre, die hinter den Kulissen großen Einfluss auf die Parteien haben.
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@bisolamih ·
Looks like the majority takes it system is better
It’s what majority of the people want but may be unfortunate if the election is rigged 
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@chinito ·
hmmmm. i think it doesn't seem to be working.. :(
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@edith-4angelseu ·
I think democracy is way more than that! 
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@hivecurators ·
<center><sub>[ 🎉 Upvoted 🎉 ](https://hivesigner.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=sagarkothari88&approve=1)<br>👏 Keep Up the good work on Hive ♦️ 👏<br>❤️ @reeta0119 suggested [sagarkothari88](https://hivesigner.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=sagarkothari88&approve=1) to upvote your post ❤️<br>[🙏 Don't forget to Support Back 🙏](https://hivesigner.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=sagarkothari88&approve=1)</sub></center>
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@informacripto ·
$0.10
I would like to say something exactly but I can't.....
What I can say is that the people of what has been saved from the right wing of macron and le pen. 
Because according to what international analysts were saying the right wing was going to make a mess with immigrants from various countries as a consequence more discrimination as there is more discrimination causes more discontent which brings something that is not good to a party of extreme even worse than the left that is something to take into account
That would be a minuscule opinion 
France voted for a lesser evil than for a greater one
In 2027 hopefully they will vote better....
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@itwithsm ·
there is no transparency in the voting system these days. 
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@jfang003 ·
I have no idea, but I do think that every systems has it's advantages and disadvantages. Even if 51% accept things and 49% doesn't, that is still a decent amount of people who doesn't like things. 
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@kerrislravenhill ·
$0.08
Le Rigged.
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vote details (1)
@kriszrokk ·
$0.08
Wahlen sind eh nur eine Illusion. Ein Blick auf die sog. "heads of states" einiger großen Nationen genügt, um festzustellen, dass diese nur Marionetten sind. Das Kontrollzentrum befindet sich hinterm Vorhang.  
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vote details (2)
@kungfukid ·
i dont agree with the majority voting system. why would they do that? it doesn't make sense. its like a popularity contest. whoever is the most popular team wins. you only need 1 or 2 person that is popular and the rest can win without lifting a finger. 
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@leaky20 ·
$0.08
I'm not sure I fully understand Frances system and am not an expert in how the different voting systems work. 

Intuitively I don't think that the majority voting system is necessarily a best representation of an entire region or country, especially in very large countries like Canada and the US where population are spread over large areas but with a select few being densly clustered in specific key areas. Using Ontario Canada as an example: if it was majority rule then a single city like Toronto could control the vote since the majority of people are clustered in one area. However, people living in that area may have very different viewpoints on what is best for the province compared to other surrounding areas. For that reason, the voting system in the country breaks the entire region into many different cohorts based on area size and population. The theory is that this system gives a better representation of the whole province rather than one small area controlling the vote. In such a system a particular party may have the greatest number of votes overall and still lose an election. I don't know if its a better or worse system (again I'm not an expert) but there is a logic to it. I can't tell if this is what France is also doing or something else entirely? 
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@vikisecrets · (edited)
$0.03
I think there are two different concepts, which one needs to differentiate, first, winner takes it all (majority voting), relative winner gets 100% of the seats, giving absolute majority to the relative winner, and the second concept is overrepresenting regions with less people over regions with a lot of people, giving more power to less dense regions. The US congress uses both concepts, two chambers, one representing the regions based on population and the other (Senate) representing the regions where every state has 2 seats regardless of the amount of people who live in the region. Weighing votes differently based on region however contradicts the one person one vote, equal vote principle.
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@leaky20 ·
$0.08
>Weighing votes differently based on region however contradicts the one person one vote, equal vote principle.

I agree with that for sure. 
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@lichtblick ·
Das habe ich gefunden ,-) Soll anscheinend auch alles noch rauskommen. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzv8Ff1YLDY
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@rafzat ·
The majority voting results is usually rigged here. The person we want is not usually the one who wins the election and that’s why so many people gave up on elections here
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@stayoutoftherz ·
$0.08
Verrückt!
Da fällt mir nur das ein: Wenn Wahlen etwas ändern könnten, wären sie schon verboten worden.
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@thebighigg ·
$0.08
They have a very screwed up voting system currently that is going to have to be changed or it will result in absolute chaos. The party with the most votes by far getting third place in seats just shows their election system is flawed. The whole second round is really a mess...
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@thehockeyfan-at ·
$0.08
!WITZ
👍  ,
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@lolzbot ·
<div class='pull-right'><center><img src="https://lolztoken.com/lolz.png"><br><a href="https://lolztoken.com">lolztoken.com</a></p><br><br><br><br></center></div><p><center><strong>Was ist grün und schlittert über die Wiese?<br>Ein Pinguin im Tarnanzug.</strong><br><sub>Credit: <a href="https://peakd.com/@thatgermandude">thatgermandude</a></sub><br>@vikisecrets, ich habe dir im Namen von  @thehockeyfan-at einen <a href="https://hive-engine.com/?p=market&t=LOLZ">$LOLZ</a> Token gesendet<br>Verwende den Befehl <strong>!WITZ</strong> oder <strong>!LOOL</strong>, um einen Witz und ein <a href="https://hive-engine.com/?p=market&t=LOLZ">$LOLZ</a> zu teilen.<br><br>Delegate Hive Tokens to Farm $LOLZ and earn 110% Rewards.  <a href='https://peakd.com/@lolztoken/introducing-lolz-defi-now-you'>Learn more.</a><br>.(8/10)</center></p>
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@tough ·
The democracy world is quite affected and this is actually a pity to really see
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@tough ·
Years ago, I have given up on democracy because it is not really worth it actually 
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@tsnaks ·
$0.08
French democracy should get a new name, it doesn't deserve "democracy" anymore :D
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@yeckingo1 ·
$0.08
Whatever the system is and whatever it is called, in the end the same people always rule.
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