It has come to my attention that I need to explain things a little more...and this is better! by lucylin

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blog · @lucylin · Mar 13 '19

$0.50

It has come to my attention that I need to explain things a little more...and this is better!

Some people do no understand words to describe a concept, as well as they do pictures...

....not really come to my attention , to be honest - I was already well aware of it - and the two different types of visualization.
(it's been long understood, nothing new), but I couldn't think of a better introduction to the post...

So in that vein, I'll broach the the ethical concepts that I described in a previous post, with some pictures, and hopefully illustrate my concerns with the fundamental flaws - as I see it - in the Steem ecosystem.

A and B...These are _both_ valid concepts.
B, as far as I can see, is the concept applicable to the way the steem ecosystem works.

![snap (3) - Copy - Copy - Copy.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmSgkSDzMcarCnV8Z1BqoJi6Y149iKcep9e7G6f1pcSpCE/snap%20(3)%20-%20Copy%20-%20Copy%20-%20Copy.jpg)

So far so good, and pretty clear to understand....The Steem produced is put into the rewards pool, and _belongs to no one_
Let's move on..

All steem swimming in the this reward pool are the same size. = 1 steem.
![snap (3) - Copy - Copy - Copy.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmRQ24RtdS5SfGfaDYr3y4hvRApzqVGvmcJp9kcRAdEZYG/snap%20(3)%20-%20Copy%20-%20Copy%20-%20Copy.jpg)

....and now it gets tricky, if you are applying _ethics_ into to the steem ecosystem.

If the steem belongs to know one, then everyone is _free_ to grab what they can.
_How_ you choose to grab it, is of no ones concern, but your own. (no ethical reference).

If the steem are still in the rewards pool, there is no ethical dilemma with taking steem out of another net, while it is still in the rewards pool. (the 7 days pay out, and down voting)

#### This is philosophically consistent, and offers _no moral or ethical dilemma_, _if_ there is no ethical reference and the 'code is law').

#### There is _zero_ ethical dilemma.

There is almost no relationship to content creation and the share of the rewards pool.(stake size, being the main factor)

![snap (3) - Copy - Copy - Copy.jpg](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmaTyeP8vsToC8K1mFdbLLyeA9djEvnBdMWNgeuvxqFKtc/snap%20(3)%20-%20Copy%20-%20Copy%20-%20Copy.jpg)

##### ^This^ is logically consistent .

It is also psychopaths economic model....

#### In the world of _humans_, ethics constrain negative human behavior. (thou shalt not kill).

#### In the Steemit ecosytem - having no ethics built into the code, only _encourages_ negative human behaviors.
(flagging wars, or people having keys to an account and thus becomes ownership - irrelevant of any previous contract...)

More of a ....'Thou _shalt_ kill if you want to, because you're bigger'.

I hope this explains _one part_ of my personal ethical dilemma with Steem. There's more...

If I see this ethical dilemma, then so do others - those looking at steem from the outside - and this poses a problem for steem, in my opinion....
Why?

#### Because throughout _all of history_, the most successful and productive communities and societies - _embrace_ ethical behavior, and _shun_ non ethical behavior.

'Code is law' here, and non ethical behaviors encouraged, due to the _lack of ethics_ in the code - but at the same time , people in societies naturally turn _away_ from such behaviors.

It _will_ appeal to the sociopaths, and psychopaths, where 'might is right', and all ethical codes have no relevance to them.

### The question that has to be asked...Will, or even - CAN - the Steem economic system, attract and retain those users _not_ of the 15% of society (the sociopaths, narcissist and psychopaths?).

_Does this explain anything about steemit to date, maybe_?

#### The non ethical system that we have now on Steem is, _100%, logically consistent_.

(It's also logically consistent to kill every human being not producing more for 'the collective' than they consume, right?).

#### What kind of world do we _want_..?

....and here is the real fuck up....

You _cannot_ have a technocratic system ( non ethical one), and at the same time, a free market and meritocratic based system, not living within the same worlds..

#### Steem is _not_ meritocratic _or_ free market.

Why not?

#### A free market fundamentally insists on _property_ being freely exchanged for goods or services.
It relies on the concept of property rights..

#### But we have _already established_ that we are trading with something that is _not ours_....

### Steem in the rewards pool belongs to _no one_, remember?

This is _not_ logically consistent.

The free market???
....It is not _this_, ergo - it's not a meritocratic one , as meritocracy itself _relies_ on free market principles of property rights - to function.

Ok, the serious shit over with..

I'm off back to my 'D-Day' story.
(and arguably way more serious than this post - as we might all find out about, in the next 80 something, days.)

👍 shepz1, whatsup, glenalbrethsen, pwny, dexterdumb, openparadigm, lk666, bil.prag, galenkp, pennsif, bashadow, sharpshot, angryman, lucylin, skramatters, freebornsociety, builderofcastles, accelerator, antisocialists, joe.public, akdx, rhampagoe, dylanhobalart, v-entertainment, fulcrumleader, wayoutwest, mistysummers, kph, bflanagin, liberidallavoro, beetlevc, hamsa.quality, drwom, dyrt88, fbkirwan, sergino, elowin, conway3026, badjokesdaily, razzacs, liabilityy

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@baah · Mar 13 '19 (edited)

Both the pictures are flawed.

The reward pool is not provided or produced by the witnesses. I explained this before.
They are workers that are compensated for validating blocks. The reward pool is produced by a mathematical function of shares x inflation / vests.

There is no ethical dilemma. For it to be a matter of ethics, it must be a matter of consent or property rights being violated.

The witnesses don't own the blocks. They validate blocks that the system compiles and sends to witnesses to validate.

Even if it worked like you claimed, it would still be completely ethical as no property rights or consent is violated. You are in a fair Vs unfair dilemma. You think it's not fair that content doesn't guarantee fish. If you want fish, you must invest, and even then it's not guaranteed that you'll catch fish or as many as you want.

👍 baah

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@baah · Mar 13 '19

"thou shall kill if you want to because you're bigger"?

We went from:

No ethical dilemma at all- catching fish (and a whaa whaa it's not fair that better equipment/more SP nets more fish) 

To all of a sudden stating that someone is killing another. 

You went from talking about fishing to talking about seemingly fishermen killing one another without missing a beat. 

And you go to say that now there is an ethical dilemma because steem does not code ethics. 

Ethics are actions, not codes. 

Saying that because ethics aren't coded is saying that because logic isn't coded nonsense is encouraged. 

Statist much?

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/baah)

👍 baah

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@dexterdumb · Mar 14 '19 (edited)

$0.05

I think this is a pretty clever summation.  I wonder how making the rewards pool private property would change the distribution?  If the witnesses would forgo their rewards (instead of keeping them) then how would witnesses choose to distribute them?  Or is that not your point, and how they choose to distribute them or not, is simply the "free market?"  Idk, this seems like a toughy. ;)
Oh, the pretty pictures do help by the way! lol

👍 dexterdumb, lucylin

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@lucylin · Mar 14 '19

$0.05

MMMmmmmm......I dunno....I DO know without property being the consideration when writing code - it will not stand .... (no concept property, no ethics).

👍 dexterdumb

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@dexterdumb · Mar 16 '19 (edited)

$0.04

Correct me if I still don't understand completely.  Most crypto projects tout the fact that they are open source, meaning those who are capable and willing, can contribute and see how exactly the source code works.  NEO/BTC etc....Closed source (private property) are your Microsoft's/Apple/IBM's.
When writing code with the intention of making it private, you become no longer "open source".  Is this what you mean?

👍 dexterdumb, lucylin, sergino

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8 replies

@glenalbrethsen · Mar 13 '19

$0.03

Hey @lucylin.

I'm agreeing with what you've said here. I think this is about the clearest I've seen it stated (even without the pictures :). And obviously many others have bandied the topic about in some fashion.

What I got out of this, without putting words in your mouth, is STEEM needs to move away from an ownerless reward pool system to where people use what they own to upvote posts, etc. And that if they did, that would, I would imagine, at least slow people down on the negative behavior. I also got out of this that since code is law, there needs to be some ethics baked into the code so that it's not just might makes right, or Wild West whichever version we're on.

If those aren't the conclusions I should be drawing, please let me know.

👍 shepz1, lucylin

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@baah · Mar 13 '19

$0.03

"ethics baked into code"

Spoken like a true authoritarian.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/baah)

👍 glenalbrethsen

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@glenalbrethsen · Mar 13 '19

Hey, @baah.

You answered @lucylin with a similar response, so I'll be interested to see what the answer is. In my case, I guess I'm more interested in knowing if you see the concerns expressed here as major issues, and if so, what should be done about them.

Just as an aside, code seems to always be considered non-ethical in nature. It is what it is. So maybe a bad choice of words, but it seemed to fit what was being driven at.

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21 replies

@lucylin · Mar 13 '19

if ethics are not used, fine - that's what we have now, but not lets pretend it's free market .

Authoritarianism has nothing to do with with.
(hows your understanding of the banking system coming along?)

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2 replies

@lucylin · Mar 13 '19

if ethics are not used, fine - that's what we have now, but not lets pretend it's free market .

Authoritarianism has nothing to do with with.
(hows your understanding of the banking system coming along?)

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1 reply

@lucylin · Mar 13 '19

$0.03

Thanks matey! 
Yup that pretty much what I was getting at...

>I also got out of this that since code is law, there needs to be some ethics baked into the code

It  suits the ethically minded.... but _doesn't_ suit the transhuman/ technocratic/ authoritarian/egocentrically, minded..
...of which their  seems to quite a few, and very possibly correlated to,  coders, (imo)

👍 glenalbrethsen

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@baah · Mar 13 '19

Lol ethics baked into code doesn't suit the authoritarian, when ethics are now a matter of law/ code.

Muh logic with this one.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/baah)

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@glenalbrethsen · Mar 13 '19

I found myself from nearly day one wondering about how things were around here, and how happy many were that it was this way, while railing at certain aspects of it nonetheless. In other words, let it be wild west, but my version of wild west.

I guess the next step is, what/whose ethics gets used (something that most would agree on), and then what's the chance of actually getting it implemented. For me, I think most of us are aware it exists, even for at least some of the ones it suits. So, awareness isn't the issue. Proper action is. Any chance of that happening within the next few months or so in your estimation?

👍 lucylin

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4 replies

@joe.public · Mar 13 '19

You are working on a post more serious than this one?

I am in full agreement with you. imho Steemit is a very unsound investment of time and or money while we have no path to taking out certain accounts. I suspect those accounts are here specifically to make sure Steemit an unsound investment. Otherwise it could be a world changer quite literally

👍 lucylin, joe.public, kiwisteem

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@baah · Mar 13 '19

Says:

"no path to taking out certain accounts"

In the context of "ethics", air quotes as ethics is not an issue with better equipment /more vests netting more fish /bigger rewards.

So much for "ethics".

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@lucylin · Mar 13 '19

Yes- my strategy /perspective in the future , with steem! lol (expressed in humor).

👍 joe.public

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@sharpshot · Mar 13 '19

I'm not investing in steemit, I'm investing in Steem.  Steemit still has a beta beside its name.  I think everyone knows this isn't the finished platform.  Steemit Inc might come up with something better but I have more faith in other devs working with Steem.  The reward pool isn't perfect but has anyone come up with a better idea yet?

👍 baah

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@pennsif · Mar 13 '19

This post has been included in the latest edition of  [**SoS Daily News**](https://steemit.com/steem/@pennsif/sos-daily-news-news-about-the-state-of-steem-12-march-2019) - a digest of all the latest news on the Steem blockchain.

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@pwny · Mar 13 '19

I believe the ethical code lies within the hearts of the Steemians.
It's hard to speculate if the current system would work for a billion users compared to the mere thousands today.

Posted using [Partiko Android](https://partiko.app/referral/pwny)

👍 lucylin

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