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RE: HF20 Update: Operations Stable by geekpowered

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Viewing a response to: @steemitblog/hf20-update-operations-stable

· @geekpowered ·
$0.57
Thank you for putting it forward that you are in discussions with witnesses for developing standards for testing code.

There do need to be defined methods and standards on how the hard forks are tested...and the code needs to be reviewed.

It should possibly be considered that hard forks need to be reduced in size and possibly reviewed independently as well. Maybe they should be broken into pieces that are named and added independently, with portions possibly being put off and reviewed for longer periods.

As to the resource credits...it doesn't seem like things are properly balanced right now. The smallest accounts should be able to post once or twice a day and make a few comments. Most people only post a few times a day. Everyone should be able to vote 100% on enough comments and posts to stay below 100% VP as well.

Perhaps new accounts could be limited to at most 5 posts or comments. It's possible they could be limited further as well. People that have been here longer and gotten maybe around 100 SP should be limited a bit less perhaps, but still, 5 posts/comments per day would not necessarily be bad.

This 10x increase is a bit too much obviously though, as even with just a bit of SP, larger accounts can spam freely. A limit on some accounts may create an issue if we get some games here, but for now, we should consider if perhaps the curve should be lessened a bit for accounts as they get more SP.

Most people only need to post or comment a few times per day. A limit of 10 comments or posts on accounts of a few hundred SP might not even be noticed, for example, though that harsh of a limit might be a bit too much.
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@lanmower · (edited)
this is a valuable comment, I had to scroll all the way down the page but I finally found it, voted it to shift it up.

I would like to say that I disagree with the general sentiment behind it:

If you nerf someone under 15SP its censorship.
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@geekpowered ·
Well, I think it does have to be a huge debate on how much is a normal amount that new accounts will be fine with. I used 5 as a restrictive example. The main thing is that we need to figure out something that's usable, even if they have to work a bit to get themselves above that. Kinda like a game.

If we give them too many though, then we have to decrease the speed that the number of posts increases by or it will just allow abuse.

But, if we restrict the number of posts on the tinniest of minnows, they'll wait to post the most important of comments and posts, and work to grow.

But it is very important that everyone debates this, to get the exact number right.
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@lanmower ·
I personally feel that allowing freedom of speech is more important than not allowing abuse.

In my mind it is the harmfulness of abuse that should be approached. I know that its a difficult problem to solve, so difficult that the human race doesn't have good solutions for post moderation yet as a whole, on the other hand I think steem already provides an elegant solution, in the long run however the success of it completely depends on whether it allows people freedom or not, I've been around the block on steem, and my impression is that the types of policing that does exist is often more of a moneymaking racket than people making posts that are similar, badly researched, unsourced, etc etc.

Research articles is in my mind the lowest form of the blog, and personal opinion the highest and most valuable form, so that probably helps to explain why I have the thoughts on the subject that I do.

I like the anarchic, free atmosphere of the internet, it allows people to be themselves without living in fear, we all need to learn how to police outright scams, spams, properly abusive use of competitions, groups and services ourselves, so that we as a community can figure out what is the most elegant and effective patch that can eventually be used to automate the processes we do manually.

I hope we're looking at the situation with clear vision and the road ahead with enough foresight not to make steem boring, which it already is in many ways, to the frustration of many long term internet users.

I like your points, and I'm not trying to counter them in any way, I'm just hoping to add some ideas to the discourse.
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@tarazkp ·
$0.05
So far the worst post spammers have been reduced by about 80% it seems. Out of the top 10, that removes about 900 posts a day from the chain I think it was.

It is a balancing act at the moment but later on it will be more fine tunable through the delegation of RCs (when that arrives) I think as then they can reduce the 10x and then leave it up to those who want to delegate (like Dapps and communities) which means they can also undelegate if abused.
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@geekpowered ·
$0.09
You make a good point. The majority of the spammers are limited at least a bit by this change. Any ones that want to continue to spam have to hold Steem, which I suppose is a good thing.

I do think they should be a bit more limited than they are currently though. The question is how much.

If users are limited to only a few posts/comments per day until they get at least a few SP, would it really be so bad?
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@tarazkp ·
$0.05
I don't think they have to be limited totally. If you think that if a dapp onboards them and discounts their usage on *their* platform, they can cut delegation. If a community onboards them they are welcoming in people they have somewhat vetted which reduces the risk of abuse. but if thy do abuse, cut delegation. 

The RC delegation can work like the SP delegation earlier so that it erodes as the account earns their own. This means that it takes time to get to the zero point and then earn more to be able to really spam.
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