create account

RE: Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour by haphazard-hstead

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com

Viewing a response to: @elfspice/re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t040341001z

· @haphazard-hstead ·
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Steemit is such a complex ecosystem now that prediction of consequences seems less practical than testing and adjusting. It would be nice to see some analyses afterwards showing whether the planned effects are actually occurring. I appreciate all the experimentation that goes on here!
👍  ,
properties (23)
authorhaphazard-hstead
permlinkre-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t042849681z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-07 04:28:48
last_update2017-07-07 04:28:48
depth3
children14
last_payout2017-07-14 04:28:48
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length333
author_reputation36,666,374,575,794
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,601,680
net_rshares3,338,333,664
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)
@elfspice ·
$0.05
The 4th member of the Co-Operative, @rycharde, is a mathematician who does a lot of work on Game Theory, and there is in fact models you can create that give pretty clear predictions of how humans will play with new things.

He has friends in the field who can quickly build a simulation based on a series of variables that is pretty accurate at predicting it. Basically, it just models the process of people learning how to exploit the system. From this you can in fact judge the effect, before implementation, to a pretty large degree. 

I was absolutely ecstatic when he showed up to talk about what his angle was. This gives our development process some really good evidence to justify changes. He also happens to practically share my own theories about gravity and biology as well.
👍  , ,
properties (23)
authorelfspice
permlinkre-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t052812920z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"users":["rycharde"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-07 05:28:15
last_update2017-07-07 05:28:15
depth4
children13
last_payout2017-07-14 05:28:15
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.039 HBD
curator_payout_value0.010 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length786
author_reputation-3,995,561,637,087
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,605,989
net_rshares11,017,199,862
author_curate_reward""
vote details (3)
@fuzzyvest ·
Then ur mathmetician buddy missed the ball completely. 
I made whaleshares to help whales distribute power away from themselves in a free market (not use of force as proclaimed here) to help end the rule of upvote bots.

Why the hell u arent focused on this...blows my mind.
👍  , ,
properties (23)
authorfuzzyvest
permlinkre-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t111428372z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-07 11:14:30
last_update2017-07-07 11:14:30
depth5
children2
last_payout2017-07-14 11:14:30
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length274
author_reputation16,076,269,237,260
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,631,104
net_rshares1,302,691,008
author_curate_reward""
vote details (3)
@ackza · (edited)
damn u made whaleshares?? holy crap $800,000 in steempwer, i dont wana fuck with you man! hahah
I would have never guessed because your lack of a profile image (or at least it isnt showing up) i have noticed steemit wont show the profile pic when i open up a comment!
But i assume people without profile pics are new and dont know or care! And i am always telling minnows to create a profile pic to help them have a better chance of receiving an upvote as many of us experienced steemit users subconsciously just see the lack of a profile image/avatar and withhold an upvote bevcause it shows they dont care if they are nw! BUT u are proof that this is not always the case!

And also u should remember how many minnows still dont understand how steempower works ( i dont blame em) and when they hear "upvote bot" they assume that anyone can create a bot without having to fund it wth steempower!

they should realize how ...ok if u make a bot...u have to fund it! and that money has to come from somwhere! that whale could just keep all their steempower in one account and foocus $1000 upvots onall their friends!

u should remind minnows this with a simple image...

maybe this will help 
https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://steemitimages.com/DQmXg5aJg5JxqDMs7tUwSjRpebTGCtFt4VmxknT4VvoXZ9d/image.png
LOL sorry i know that wont help but i love injecting humor into serious situations
properties (22)
authorackza
permlinkre-fuzzyvest-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170708t004228103z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"image":["https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://steemitimages.com/DQmXg5aJg5JxqDMs7tUwSjRpebTGCtFt4VmxknT4VvoXZ9d/image.png"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-08 00:42:33
last_update2017-07-08 00:46:12
depth6
children0
last_payout2017-07-15 00:42:33
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,386
author_reputation288,211,574,365,110
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,702,708
net_rshares0
@elfspice ·
It would have been nice if someday we'd at least see even delegation added to Condenser, let alone Beneficiaries... What need would there be for whaleshares if it was easy to use a feature that is in the consensus logic?

I don't think this 'upvote the newbies just because they are new' strategy really helps anyone. It resembles a heroin dealer giving away free samples more than anything else. You would miss a lot of important elements of how this system works if you ignore the fact that it is pretty much a Skinner Box. I doubt over the long run it really does the system any good either, because many people will just abandon the platform in the conditions of a sliding price and lack of 'gifts' from whales.

Fucked if I know how you draw the conclusion that a self vote should not be possible by the rules of the consensus logic, is force. That's like saying that the referee at a football match shouldn't give out yellow and red cards when other people use force and don't play fair. If I was playing a game of football and other players were barging and high tackling, I'd rather not risk my neck on it. At least when there is a referee they will have to sit out for at least half the game after breaking rules of common decency. Oh, but the referee is using force. No, you consented to the consensus logic when you joined the network.

The central goal of my advocating these things has to do with putting more necessary tools in the hands of users, without requiring them to learn how to code python or javascript. Self voting is short sighted activity, not considering the non-quantifiable but nevertheless vital capital of peer respect.
👍  
properties (23)
authorelfspice
permlinkre-fuzzyvest-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t140437362z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-07 14:04:42
last_update2017-07-07 14:04:42
depth6
children0
last_payout2017-07-14 14:04:42
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length1,651
author_reputation-3,995,561,637,087
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,646,407
net_rshares727,547,265
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@haphazard-hstead ·
$0.03
Thanks for that explanation! That's pretty interesting! I'm curious about what the input and output variables are. Was the impact of self-upvoting considered, but then rejected for the current system implementation? Or was that a surprise? Or was it seen as a possibility with low enough probability that it wasn't worth bothering with, until evidence accumulated?

 So interesting! Now I really want to see a comparison of the projected and actual impacts, knowing there's game theory model behind your design decisions.
👍  
properties (23)
authorhaphazard-hstead
permlinkre-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t065132171z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-07 06:51:30
last_update2017-07-07 06:51:30
depth5
children4
last_payout2017-07-14 06:51:30
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.020 HBD
curator_payout_value0.005 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length521
author_reputation36,666,374,575,794
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,611,859
net_rshares5,939,334,241
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@elfspice ·
The impact of self voting was definitely considered in the original architecture design. This was why the reward curve was so heavily skewed in favour of whales. The justification for not simply leaving this capability out (it's just a simple if/then test) was complacence born of probably many years being accustomed to platforms like Reddit and Digg. Neither of those platforms are going to be around in 5 years time, whereas Steem, or its descendants, will be dominating the internet.
👍  
properties (23)
authorelfspice
permlinkre-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t073406374z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-07 07:34:09
last_update2017-07-07 07:34:09
depth6
children3
last_payout2017-07-14 07:34:09
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.000 HBD
curator_payout_value0.000 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length487
author_reputation-3,995,561,637,087
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,614,894
net_rshares727,547,265
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@markopaasila ·
$0.03
I followed you just in case you decide to write about gravity :-)
👍  
properties (23)
authormarkopaasila
permlinkre-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t061145031z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-07 06:11:45
last_update2017-07-07 06:11:45
depth5
children4
last_payout2017-07-14 06:11:45
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.020 HBD
curator_payout_value0.005 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length65
author_reputation32,771,884,740,822
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,609,101
net_rshares5,939,334,241
author_curate_reward""
vote details (1)
@elfspice ·
$0.68
That's something I will definitely be doing in the future, though I am reluctant to write anything until I have a new idea or, better still, if I have the time and money to actually implement some of the experimental devices I have proposed previously.
👍  ,
properties (23)
authorelfspice
permlinkre-markopaasila-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t074005916z
categorysteemdev
json_metadata{"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"}
created2017-07-07 07:40:09
last_update2017-07-07 07:40:09
depth6
children3
last_payout2017-07-14 07:40:09
cashout_time1969-12-31 23:59:59
total_payout_value0.509 HBD
curator_payout_value0.168 HBD
pending_payout_value0.000 HBD
promoted0.000 HBD
body_length252
author_reputation-3,995,561,637,087
root_title"Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour"
beneficiaries[]
max_accepted_payout1,000,000.000 HBD
percent_hbd10,000
post_id7,615,349
net_rshares145,619,075,241
author_curate_reward""
vote details (2)